Where Do You Actually Buy Braid And Stuff?

[Bribie G]

In June I'm planning to build a one vessel recirculating system, along similar principles to the German Braumeister and will need to buy some metal products such as perforated sheets of SS or aluminium, various SS bolts and stuff. Where do you actually get metal items? I'm a welding virgin and never did shop2 (or shop1 whatever) , and hopefully will find someone to help me. Damn you Tidal Pete for selling your welder :angry:

What I particularly need is some 'braid' type sheet that can be cut fairly easily, doesn't need to be load bearing or structural, it would form a circle that would sit in the bottom of a stockpot that has had a few large holes cut in its base - sort of a false bottom. The stockpot minus its handles would act as the 'malt pipe' of the Braumeister wannabe.

Any suggestions as to where you construction - oriented brewers would go to get bits? I'm just North of Bris. :icon_cheers:
Also, whilst picking brains, would a hole saw set be able to handle the base of a cheapo SS stockpot or is that too much of an ask for that tool?

 

[Peter Wadey]

Bribie,
I don't know what you mean by 'braid type sheet', but have a look here:

http://www.metalmesh.com.au/cfm/index.cfm

Peter

 

[ratchie]

Bribie if you are after woven ss mesh I have some it's 1.5mm square holes what diameter do you need.

 

[poppa joe]

I get Stainless offcuts .Termimesh Type . from Security Door places...
Cost mainly $0..
sizes vary.....
Cheers
PJ

 

[OLDS2006]

Is this what your after ?
Does offcuts as well
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/STAINLESS-STEEL-PER...=item5ad8849da7

 

[Bribie G]

Thanks guys, that's exactly what I'm looking for. Something that will act as a free draining grain-bed support. I just knew that I had seen the stuff but couldn't think of where I had seen it. It was driving me mental :blink:
I won't be getting any until I get the pot I am looking for and can get an accurate measuremet, might even get a crab cooker with the basket and line the basket with the mesh. Also thanks for the ref for Coventry, I see there's a branch at Geebung here on the Northside. :icon_cheers:

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Bribie - the braumeister I think relies more on a "proper" lauter geometry than seems obvious. It doesn't operate quite by the BIAB principle, it still relies on the build up of a grain bed and correct drainage through that bed. I think the mesh is a great idea, and the pot with holes in it too... but I suspect you will get better performance with lots of holes or with a grate holding up the mesh off the bottom, with already "filtered" liquid simply draining through a number of larger holes.

So - if the mesh is resting on the bottom surface - lots of holes - if the mesh is up off the surface supported by a grate or something - a few large holes would be OK.

I actually think you might be better off going with almost a stock standard HB domed false bottom, firmly attached to the bottom of a pot with larger drainage holes. Not because it would be "better" but because its a nice ready made, fairly cheap option that you know has the correct properties for the purpose.

Check the first page of the main BIAB thread - there are links to the genesis thread that lead to BIAB. Single vessel Brewing - is it possible. Or something like that. A few people came up with designs for and actually made and brewed on the sort of recirculating system you are talking about. They might give you some ideas on how to go. The main thing to remember, is that the Braumeister is less BIAB than it looks on first inspection, you are going to have to put yourself in a mash/lauter tun frame of mind if you want to emulate it.

Crab cooker basket is going to be a different beast - the holes down the side make it very much a "solid" BIAB. In fact you might as well just line it with voile (just a hoop of stainless wire in the bottom to keep it in a cylindrical shape rather than a loose bag). Its not going to make any difference to the performance making it mesh instead - just add to the bling and also to the expense, while making it almost certainly harder to clean.

In a Braumeister clone - you want to be adding your returned wort back to the top of the grain bed and allowing it to work its way through, just like a standard HERMS/RIMS - in a crab cooker (or bag) system - you would want to add your wort back to the lower middle of the tun, I would be using something that sort of emulated a spray ball head, have it immersed in the mash slurry and designed to "stir" the grain as it returned. So your re-circ acted both as a way to control temp, and as a way to keep your mash constantly stirred. Otherwise, your heat isn't going to distribute evenly - its going to go in the top, run down the sides and out the bottom - maybe not even touching the inside of the mash mass on the way. Its hard enough to avoid the wort running around the edges of the mash in a normal mash/lauter tun where it has to go through some grain on the way ... in a system where there are holes in the side... thats where its gonna go for sure. Out the sides and away, path of least resistance.

TB

 

[Bribie G]

Yes TB, I'd sort of reached that conclusion about the crab cooker, although I was hoping that the wort would prefer to travel down the core of the mash, but as you say it would probably take the lazy way out and escape through the holes in the side! Similarly with a bag, that's why I'm thinking of a solid sided cylinder with the only way out at the bottom, through a false bottom where the grain bed can build up.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Yes TB, I'd sort of reached that conclusion about the crab cooker, although I was hoping that the wort would prefer to travel down the core of the mash, but as you say it would probably take the lazy way out and escape through the holes in the side! Similarly with a bag, that's why I'm thinking of a solid sided cylinder with the only way out at the bottom, through a false bottom where the grain bed can build up.

Yep, exactly - but that, as I said, puts you in exactly the same boat as any recirculating mash tun, so the placing and size of the holes in the bottom become important. Mesh is not the best choice for a false bottom, thats why commercial breweries don't make theirs out of mesh. You actually want slightly more "non hole" than hole... whereas mesh is the opposite. And mesh hard up against large holes...that cuts down your surface area to drain through... but still leaves you with mesh on the bits that do drain.

I'm not saying mesh wont work - It probably will. If you had some lying around and you didn't want to buy anything else - then hell yeah, thats what I'd use too - But if you are going from scratch and buyng everything, then I think mesh isn't the optimum choice. I think something like this with a standard domed falsie is likely to not only be the easiest, but also probably close to the most effective. That way a 60-70L aluminium stock pot could be your outer and you could save a little money on the inner if you happened to have a keg shaped container laying about the place.



with the falsie held in place by a stainless washer/bolt/wingnut through the bottom. And then you have something with a geometry and set up very much like the mash tuns used by a lot of the guys who run re-circulating systems at the moment. So its not an unknown quantity - you know its something that will work and work well.

TB

 

[browndog]

Hey Bribie, I built this basket out of some S/S mesh.



cheers

Browndog

 

[jimmysuperlative]

You've checked out the Braumeister site have you Bribie? Particularly this page Braumeister Technical Data ...?

Good luck with the project.

 

[Bribie G]

Thanks Jimmy, I'd been unable to find that. I was looking at my coffee plunger and thought "now that's a good idea, what I need is a 'lifting bolt' - and I see that Braumeister got there before me :lol:

 

[komodo]

Pretty much all info I've found on false bottoms suggests a perforated metal sheet with 2mm holes with 40% or less open area.
I'm fairly sure I found a place in braeside here in vic that does a mesh identical (from googling) and i suspect most sheet metal joins should be able to source something similar.

I've thought about doing something similar using a 40-50L cheap chinese type stock pot and cutting the base out and replacing with some perforated mesh adding some reinforcing the top and some lifting points.
I decided it was too much work and that I really want a 3V system again so I'm saving my coin. But I look forward to seeing what you can come up with.
Have you thought of just drilling out the bottom of a cheaper stock pot (something like a bigW 19L stockpot). Sure it'll take ages but would be the cheapest option...?

 

[Thirsty Boy]

It might be worth dropping Domonsura a line - when I got my Beer Belly mash tun made, I went for a special request full width flat false bottom. I asked why he didn't usually do it... answer, any of the flat plate that is physically strong enough to hold up the weight of the mash, is prohibitively expensive and the price of the mash tuns would be something like $150 more expensive. I was lucky enough to get the last "trial" bit he had lying around the workshop and he gave me a fantastic price.

Now - I have no idea if, or how that might be an issue for the design you are working on, but it might be worth shooting Wayne an e-mail when you have the design and specs at draft level and asking him about his experience with the flat false bottom material. The stuff in mine is pretty chunky and I imagine not cheap.

And if you haven't already - talk to MHB. I understand he has and brews on a Braumeister. Nothing like the voice of real experience as a guide.

 

[komodo]

You could get around the weight bearing issue by putting a bit of SS flat in an "x" on its edge across the bottom in a 'strong back' type arrangement.

As a false bottom on a standard tun you could use SS ea in an "x" type arrangement which would have the added benefit of channelling wort under the grain bed to the centre of the tun around the pickup point... Hrmmm now this has me thinking...

Having said that I would be supprised that a 1mm sheet with a good fillet of weld around the perimeter to a tube with reasonable wall thickness would buckle even with a few kgs of grain on top. I could see that it would be an issue where there is no tension applied because the mesh would wobble and buckle everywhere - and this would be the issues on a flat false bottom in a tun.

 

[yardy]

What I particularly need is some 'braid' type sheet that can be cut fairly easily, doesn't need to be load bearing or structural, it would form a circle that would sit in the bottom of a stockpot that has had a few large holes cut in its base - sort of a false bottom.

gday bribie,

what's the diameter of the pot your planning to use ?

know anyone who's done a keggle conversion ? maybe they still have the 'cut out' from the keg that you could use for the false bottom, i've got one in the shed somewhere if you want it.

imo it doesn't need to drilled/ perforated, don't mess around with mesh, slots cut from a micro cutting disc are fine.

cheers

Dave

 

[Bribie G]

The outer container will actually be my good old urn, with a decent ball valve tap fitted, leading to a March Pump, and the 'malt pipe' will sit inside, on little feet to keep it above the exposed element of the Birko. I had an Einsteinian flash of insight B) and realised that, although SS would look good, it's not really necessary - food grade plastic would be fine. Thousands of guys mash in plastic eskies, mayo buckets, assorted buckets o death, etc. My old bruheat plastic boiler did good service for quite a few years. It occurred to me that I probably had the exact thing sitting unused and **bingo** it will fit perfectly:

My unused 25L fermenter. I can cut the top off just above the top moulded line, to give it strength, fit a blank plug in place of the tap, and cut a 'rosette' shape in the bottom, - a circle of SS mesh sitting on there, couple of ss eye bolts in the two handle recesses to attach cords to for hoisting, and it should be a solid little unit. Perfect height and diameter. So next step the March Pump when Kev stimulates me next month but I'll be researching the other threads that have been pointed out to me, cheers.

Edit: thanks for the tip, Yardy- appreciated, but I think it might be a bit big. :icon_cheers:

 

[thesunsettree]

gday bribie,

what's the diameter of the pot your planning to use ?

know anyone who's done a keggle conversion ? maybe they still have the 'cut out' from the keg that you could use for the false bottom, i've got one in the shed somewhere if you want it.

imo it doesn't need to drilled/ perforated, don't mess around with mesh, slots cut from a micro cutting disc are fine.

cheers

Dave

those pics just made balconybrewers head explode

 

[chappo1970]

In June I'm planning to build a one vessel recirculating system, along similar principles to the German Braumeister and will need to buy some metal products such as perforated sheets of SS or aluminium, various SS bolts and stuff. Where do you actually get metal items? I'm a welding virgin and never did shop2 (or shop1 whatever) , and hopefully will find someone to help me. Damn you Tidal Pete for selling your welder :angry:

What I particularly need is some 'braid' type sheet that can be cut fairly easily, doesn't need to be load bearing or structural, it would form a circle that would sit in the bottom of a stockpot that has had a few large holes cut in its base - sort of a false bottom. The stockpot minus its handles would act as the 'malt pipe' of the Braumeister wannabe.

Any suggestions as to where you construction - oriented brewers would go to get bits? I'm just North of Bris. :icon_cheers:
Also, whilst picking brains, would a hole saw set be able to handle the base of a cheapo SS stockpot or is that too much of an ask for that tool?

Bribie a great and cheap source of all things stainless and bling is www.tubesalesqld.com.au they are near me in the deep south. What they don't stock they are usually happy to order in for you at very competitive prices. No affliation just been very help to me in the past.

Cheers

Chap Chap

 

[crozdog]

Bribie,

Manu in vietnam does staino fabrication & also has perforated sheet. Nice guy to deal with - replies to queries quickly. Fraser John got his herms made by him.

Just a thought if you don't have access to welding etc it might be an easy option to send him your plans for a quote.....

beers crozdog