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Wheat Beer Recipe

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pharmaboy

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thx Brauluver, and Weizguy!

will go the ldme for a 800grams or so to make up the shortfall I have in wheat ldme, for about the 4% mark.

I like the prose you use weizguy for the difference between liquid and dry wheat, i use mmmmm nice beer versus mmmmm nicer beer- so now I know WHY I like it!

On the subject of orange, I just cracked open a lame attempt at belgian from a little over a year ago, which tasted distinctly of oranges, and would be better termed an orange ale than a wheat (safwheat pffft!). I used in that one the rind of 2 navel oranges in a 23liter batch - waaaaay to much - unless you want an orange beer, which was still nice btw! Use half a mandarine these days, and have used marmalade (2 tspns) with success (in a forbidden fruit recipe).

cheers & thx
 

Screwtop

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Ross said:
Darren said:
I agree with Tangent and Weizguy,
Just make your own. This time of year it will dry in a day (in the South anyhow). I have also tried the chinese shop peel. Looks like it is dusted in sugar (or mould) and has none of the flavour of freshly dried peel.

cheers
Darren
[post="105323"][/post]​
Sounds like you picked up some candied peel there Darren.
No sign of dust on the peel I have & once rehyrated the aroma was gorgeous...

Guess I was lucky, or you were unlucky...

cheers Ross
[post="105335"][/post]​
The dried orange peel that I bought from a chinese grocer was the same Ross, almost black, looks mouldy. Could be mistaken for dried mushroom. Candied peel or preserved peel is quite moist.
 

warrenlw63

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Just to put a slightly different spin on this. A good substitute for raw or flaked wheat is to use some Bourghul (sometimes called Bulgar) which is basically steamed, cracked (yep pre-cooked) wheat and the key ingredient in Tabouli. Very trouble free to use in a single-infusion mash. I can usually get it @ $2 per kg from the local Middle Eastern spice shop.

Health section of the usual supermarkets seems to always stock it too for a little bit more. :beerbang:

Probably not as authentic as raw wheat but certainly a lot easier to handle. :)

As for the oranges. Like Weiz says they can almost be very much in the background flavour-wise. I usually find the zest of 1 or 2 limes to work nicely too.

Warren -
 

Weizguy

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Thanks Warren,

I know U mentioned it before on this forum, but I forgot about bourghul when I made mine and paid through the nose for Health Food store rolled wheat. Worked remarkably well in the mash, which was my first ag Wit (Hoegaarden clone recipe from Protz and Wheeler's Euro beer recipe book).

Seth out
 

warrenlw63

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Yep, exactly the reason why I gave up on the flaked stuff Weiz.

Over the last 5 years or so it seems to be progressively harder to aquire and the cost dictates it too. To do 40 litres of Wit or a similar beer I'm looking at roughly 4kgs of the stuff (8 standard bags).

Bourghul just sits there in 50kg sacks at less than $2 a kg and is most likely fresher. Haven't done a Wit for some time. Saison was the last beer to incur Bourghul (25%) and it worked wonderfully. Defintely on the cards for my next Wit though.

That said the benefits of raw wheat are apparent too. Tried a Wit generously donated by Borrett and the contribution of the raw wheat was superb and very authentic. :beerbang:

Warren -
 

Ross

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So does torrified wheat impart a different flavour to raw wheat & if so, what?

I had assumed, maybe wrongly, that it didn't...

cheers Ross
 

warrenlw63

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Ross.

You'd have to expect a differing flavour contribution with torrified wheat because it's undergone some form of cooking process that's similar to breakfast cereal. IIRC it's steamed. Other than that the only way to compare the difference would be a side by side test with a similar beer using raw wheat.

Raw wheat is obviously that. Raw until it's gelatanized in the mash.

That said you'll get pretty good results with either. My experiences with torrifed wheat are that they'll float in the mash to some degree unless it's crushed with the grain. I've only ever used about 5% in the mash. Must admit I couldn't notice any flavour contributions from these amounts.

My only hesitation in using 4kgs of torrified wheat in the mash is the $5.50 per kg my LHBS charges for it. Purely economics. :)

Warren -
 

Ross

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warrenlw63 said:
Ross.

You'd have to expect a differing flavour contribution with torrified wheat because it's undergone some form of cooking process that's similar to breakfast cereal. IIRC it's steamed. Other than that the only way to compare the difference would be a side by side test with a similar beer using raw wheat.

Raw wheat is obviously that. Raw until it's gelatanized in the mash.

That said you'll get pretty good results with either. My experiences with torrifed wheat are that they'll float in the mash to some degree unless it's crushed with the grain. I've only ever used about 5% in the mash. Must admit I couldn't notice any flavour contributions from these amounts.

My only hesitation in using 4kgs of torrified wheat in the mash is the $5.50 per kg my LHBS charges for it. Purely economics. :)

Warren -
[post="105410"][/post]​
Arn't you supposed to boil the raw wheat first to get better extraction, or is this not the case? This is totally new territory for me, so keen for answers.
I get the fawcetts TW from my local hbs for the same price as my base grain, so fortunately the price is not an issue. I just crushed with all my other grain & had no problem with sparging - never had a need yet to use rice hulls :)

cheers Ross
 

warrenlw63

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I think you'd probably be hedging your bets by boiling first. However wheat starch gelatanizes at temps between 58 to 65c. A good crush of raw wheat would probably convert OK (only guessing here as I've never bothered doing it).

That said if I were to use raw wheat in a mash I'd at least consider a step mash with a protein rest and probably a higher than normal mashout temp to stop the whole thing going a bit sticky during the sparge. Belgian brewers (Lambic) who use the stuff generally employ something along the lines of a reverse decoction where the liquid portion of the mash is removed, boiled, added back etc.

Certainly makes a good argument for the pre-cooked stuff. :lol:

Warren -
 

AndrewQLD

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Ross said:
warrenlw63 said:
Ross.

You'd have to expect a differing flavour contribution with torrified wheat because it's undergone some form of cooking process that's similar to breakfast cereal. IIRC it's steamed. Other than that the only way to compare the difference would be a side by side test with a similar beer using raw wheat.

Raw wheat is obviously that. Raw until it's gelatanized in the mash.

That said you'll get pretty good results with either. My experiences with torrifed wheat are that they'll float in the mash to some degree unless it's crushed with the grain. I've only ever used about 5% in the mash. Must admit I couldn't notice any flavour contributions from these amounts.

My only hesitation in using 4kgs of torrified wheat in the mash is the $5.50 per kg my LHBS charges for it. Purely economics. :)

Warren -
[post="105410"][/post]​
Arn't you supposed to boil the raw wheat first to get better extraction, or is this not the case? This is totally new territory for me, so keen for answers.
I get the fawcetts TW from my local hbs for the same price as my base grain, so fortunately the price is not an issue. I just crushed with all my other grain & had no problem with sparging - never had a need yet to use rice hulls :)

cheers Ross
[post="105413"][/post]​
Ross,
raw wheat gelatinises between 52c and 64c depending on variety so there is no need to preboil the grains, so long as it is crushed the gelatinization process can take from 10- 20 minutes and then the enzymes in you base malt will go to work and convert the starch to sugars. Oh and if you use wheat rice hulls help A LOT :p

Cheers
Andrew
 

Borret

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My experience with raw wheat was that it posed me no real probs in the mash. I did mash in at 50 deg for a 35 min rest which enabled me to mash in without the serious glue factor as your under gel-point but certainly still quite viscous. Mash loosened up well in the 30min+ rest and then I proceeded as usual with a 66 deg (IIRC) rest for full conversion. I did use a good litre or so of rice hulls so the sparge was a breeze.

However....... before mashing was another story. :angry: I vowed never to use raw wheat again after that crush.... however having sampled the end results it may have been worth it. It definately fits the desired malt/grain profile. :) Anyway- The rubber bullet theory is definately true. A mill that grinds (ie flour mill)rather than squeezes (ie malt mill) is so much more suited to this stuff. It took three runs though my mill to get it near acceptable on reducing gap sizes and after the first run I baffled back the 8 inches of roller to about and inch either end in order to be able to even turn the crank. The final crush was still not fantastically fine due to the rubber factor and could have gone through again but I just went with it. My gravities ended up not too far under what was planned but the crush would account for that. I did run the raw wheat seperately so it didn't effect the crush on the pils malt and of course the minute oats went straight in the mash.

So my verdict (for what it's worth) is if you have the means or the patince to get past the milling with raw wheat it's definately worth your while. No precooking required but a good 50 deg rest and some rice hulls and your away. :D

Brent
 

Ross

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Gulf Brewery said:
Ross said:
My understanding was that torrified wheat was an acceptable substitute for raw wheat?

Cheers Ross
[post="105258"][/post]​
Ross

You really need the raw wheat to get a dry tartness about it and also the cloudiness. The is a fair bit of info in the Belgian Ale book if you can get your hands on a copy.

Cheers
Pedro
[post="105260"][/post]​
Pedro,

I understand that, cheers - but that doesn't really answer my question that you highlighted. :blink:

This quote from a Torriffied wheat supplier:
"Heated to pop much like partially exploded popped corn kernels, allowing more rapid hydration and the malt enzymes to more completely attack the starches and proteins. Torrified wheat can be used in place of raw wheat when making Belgian style White and Wit. Advantages over raw wheat are normal conversion time and higher yield."
Another description from one of the malsters, claims it retains & expands the original flavour of raw wheat...

So other than cost, if it's a factor, is there a reason for not using TW over raw?....

cheers Ross
 

Borret

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Ross said:
Another description from one of the malsters, claims it retains & expands the original flavour of raw wheat...

So other than cost, if it's a factor, is there a reason for not using TW over raw?....

cheers Ross
[post="105466"][/post]​
Ross- Other than the fact that the malsters are trying to sell you their product with statement like the above...... :unsure:

One reason would be that 'if this is how the people who's beers we are trying to replicate do it '-then as a craft brewer why not just give it a go their way and see for yourself..... perhaps then you can make the decision on whether it's worth it from experience rather than speculation. :p Isn't this hobby about a degree of experimentation anyway.

Don't knock it till you tried it ;)

Brent
 

Trent

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Hey Guys
About to have a crack at my first wheat ever, a copy of Berpanapods Astrobier from the NSW xmas case, cause I really liked it. I havent been able to get my hands on flaked or torrefied wheat, so this Borghul sounds like it will save the day, I will head off the the supermarket tonight in search of it. Question, though, if I use Borghul, do I need to use rice hulls, or is that just for raw wheat. And what does IIRC mean? :blink: Never been able to work that out, though I am sure it is fairly self explanatory.
All the best
Trent
 

Borret

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Trent said:
Hey Guys
About to have a crack at my first wheat ever, a copy of Berpanapods Astrobier from the NSW xmas case, cause I really liked it. I havent been able to get my hands on flaked or torrefied wheat, so this Borghul sounds like it will save the day, I will head off the the supermarket tonight in search of it. Question, though, if I use Borghul, do I need to use rice hulls, or is that just for raw wheat. And what does IIRC mean? :blink: Never been able to work that out, though I am sure it is fairly self explanatory.
All the best
Trent
[post="105488"][/post]​
G'day Trent,

IIRC- if I recall correctly, If I remember correctly..

Bourgul is cracked wheat and you may be able to find it in teh healthy part of the supermarket. The rice hulls are always an option for high wheat beers. I don't recall berps recipe but wits are generally 45-50% raw wheat so you can just get away without them if you are carefull. They just make life a little easier..

Good luck with the wit.

Brent
 

Trent

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Thanks for that Brent
And I just KNEW it would be fairly easy, but I never would have guessed that one in a million years!
All the best
Trent
 

Gulf Brewery

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Ross said:
Gulf Brewery said:
Ross said:
My understanding was that torrified wheat was an acceptable substitute for raw wheat?

Cheers Ross
[post="105258"][/post]​
Ross

You really need the raw wheat to get a dry tartness about it and also the cloudiness. The is a fair bit of info in the Belgian Ale book if you can get your hands on a copy.

Cheers
Pedro
[post="105260"][/post]​
Pedro,

I understand that, cheers - but that doesn't really answer my question that you highlighted. :blink:

This quote from a Torriffied wheat supplier:
"Heated to pop much like partially exploded popped corn kernels, allowing more rapid hydration and the malt enzymes to more completely attack the starches and proteins. Torrified wheat can be used in place of raw wheat when making Belgian style White and Wit. Advantages over raw wheat are normal conversion time and higher yield."
Another description from one of the malsters, claims it retains & expands the original flavour of raw wheat...

So other than cost, if it's a factor, is there a reason for not using TW over raw?....

cheers Ross
[post="105466"][/post]​

Ross

Part of the process to get the cloudiness and profile of a wit is to chuck a handful or two of raw wheat into the kettle. Dunno if that would work with torrefied as the stuff that I have seen doesn't crack easily and floats on the top.

As for the text you quoted, a quick google shows that as coming from Keystone Homebrew in the USA. Did you find anyone else saying to substitute torrified for raw? The place we normally see torrified wheat is for assisting head retention, especially in british beers.

Where did you source your torrefied wheat from? Do you know if it is manufactured in Oz?

Cheers
Pedro
 

Linz

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Trent,

I get flaked wheat from the 'hippie' isle at my local Coles, and used that in my Wit. Any health food store worth a try should have/or get it the next day, by the 500gm bag and a heck of alot cheaper than the HBS.
I run it thru the mill with all the other grains and mash away as norm...
 

Simon W

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Trent said:
And what does IIRC mean? :blink: Never been able to work that out, though I am sure it is fairly self explanatory.
Shameless plug, but Click here

:)
 

Trent

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Thanks for that Linz
I will head down to my coles or woolies tonight, they both have hippie sections.
And Simon W, thanks, not really a shameless plug, but saving me from myself in future! ;)
All the best
Trent
 
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