What Should I Do?

[Amber Fluid]

I have been given 2 cans of Cascade Premium Lager. I did one can and it is evident that these cans are old and it tasted like crap!!.... The recipe wasn't much...

1 can
500g Dex
500g LDM
23L
US-05
18C ferment

What suggestions do you have that I should do with the other can?
Would it make much difference if I boil it and do some hop additions like one would a can of extract?

I am hoping to use the can rather than throw it out. However, I would also rather a nice beer so will chuck it if need be.

 

[mkstalen]

1 can
1kg LDME
20g Amarillo hops (or Galaxy or Centennial or Cascade or.. or...) @ 10min
US-05
23L
18deg ferment

For your hops, take 400g of the LDME and chuck it into 4L of water and boil your hops (in a hop sock/fine mesh bag) in it for 10 min, remove the hops and pour in with the rest of your ingredients.
You could also try steeping 150g of Crystal if you're up for it. If you don't know how to do this check some of the tutorials.

Good luck.

 

[Pennywise]

Might be good to use for starters, I'd decant the beer though and pitch only the yeast

 

[Amber Fluid]

I have no problems using grain or hops as have done so numerous times now.


The hops What I currently have:
10g Centennial
100g Cascade
30g Citra
100g Nelson Sauvin
20g Amarillo

250 Light Crystal
8kg LDM
6.5kg Dextrose
6 cans LME

I was actually thinking that boiling the can of Cascade may actually reduce some of the taste it currently produces due to its age.

So what you recommend, rather than boil the can, is just add a few hop additions. TBH I don't know if that will be enough to at least make this beer reasonable.

 

[Amber Fluid]

Might be good to use for starters, I'd decant the beer though and pitch only the yeast

Sorry mate, I don't fully understand what you mean.

 

[mkstalen]

If the can is well past its best before date, and the last one was so bad you don't think a bit of extra hopping will fix it, I wouldn't bother with boiling it up. I'd just ditch it an either buy a new tin or do a full extract brew.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

I've used a tin that's 7 years out of date (2003 use-by, brewed 2010). It's adequate. No worse than any other kit beer.

If I were use amberfluid, I'd either:

1. Use it as a yeast starter (this is where you grow your own yeast from one sample/vial/packet to multiple batch-sized samples to save per brew cost of yeast); or
2. Throw every single hop you've listed in, with the tin and 10L of water for 10 minutes, and then ferment. You might pull an adequate pale ale from it. Chuck in the 250g crystal for an amber ale. I think enough hops to kill that flavour might help.

Goomba

 

[MattC]

So if you have already made one with the same type of can and it was crap, then why waste your time and money (on other ingredients) and make another. Im assuming that both cans have the same BBF date? How much did the can cost you? $15. If it was me I would cut my losses and get rid of the can. it seems you have temp control and have used a decent yeast, so perhaps it may be the can (what is the BBF date out of curiosity?).

Is it possible that you may have picked up a very slight infection and the can itself is not the issue?

Also when you say you may boil the can, are you talking about emtpying the can and boiling it in water along with hops? If so, dont do it. The can you have (Cascade lager) is a kit can, ie it comes pre-bittered. So if you plan on boiling it with hops you may end up with an overly bitter beer. I really dont see how boiling it would help the flavour any.

Cheers

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

<snip>

Also when you say you may boil the can, are you talking about emtpying the can and boiling it in water along with hops? If so, dont do it. The can you have (Cascade lager) is a kit can, ie it comes pre-bittered. So if you plan on boiling it with hops you may end up with an overly bitter beer. I really dont see how boiling it would help the flavour any.

Cheers

A 10 minute boil would add little in the way of bitterness and a great deal in the way of flavour - as all late kettle additions do.

Given it's a cascade Premium Lager (and likely at the lower end of hopping), plus the fact that an out of date kit will be continuously losing bitterness with time, the worst he'll end up with is an IPA, but likely it'll be just an APA, and a balanced one at that, given that he can use crystal to just up the sweetness a little.

As for helping the flavour, given it's a lager (hence using, I would assume, under-modified malts), then DMS could be an issue - so the boil will actually help rid the kit of the last remaining traces of DMS - hence helping the flavour.

Goomba

 

[Glenn Brown]

I have been given 2 cans of Cascade Premium Lager. I did one can and it is evident that these cans are old and it tasted like crap!!.... The recipe wasn't much...

1 can
500g Dex
500g LDM
23L
US-05
18C ferment

I did a very similar recipe a while ago and it was awful. Although I added some Hallertau and Sazz from memory. I put it down to the Cascade tin as I have had a few mates who have also used them and ended up with rubbish beer. They turn out really dark too. I know it could have just been something I did but I will avoid them in future.

 

[MattC]

A 10 minute boil would add little in the way of bitterness and a great deal in the way of flavour - as all late kettle additions do.

Given it's a cascade Premium Lager (and likely at the lower end of hopping), plus the fact that an out of date kit will be continuously losing bitterness with time, the worst he'll end up with is an IPA, but likely it'll be just an APA, and a balanced one at that, given that he can use crystal to just up the sweetness a little.

As for helping the flavour, given it's a lager (hence using, I would assume, under-modified malts), then DMS could be an issue - so the boil will actually help rid the kit of the last remaining traces of DMS - hence helping the flavour.

Goomba

Yes your first comment is true however the OP didnt stipulate how long he intended to boil for. Adding hops in a hop tea would be the way to go here if your looking at adding hop flavour and aroma.

DMS in a kit can? I wouldnt think that would be an issue worth worrying about IMHO, regardless of the malt used to create the kit. The boiling process involved in creating the thick syrup would drive off any DMS present.

Anyway I will stand by my first comment, if its out of date (did the OP confirm the date?) then why waste good hops and other ingredients? For the sake of the price of a new can ($15 ??) go out and get a new one and be more confident in making a better beer.

Sounds to me like Amber Fluid is ready to ditch kit style cans and progress to the next stage of using unhopped malt extract and boiling hops and in the process he will have greater control on the style of beer he produces.

Cheers

 

[fergi]

ditch it,old cans always make crap beer, tried it a few times and always crap, you have plenty of ingredients there to make something nice and drinkable and use your time for a worthwhile reward, for the sake of a can of goo its not worth your time and hassle to only end up with a crappy beer.

fergi

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

From what I can see, he asked what he should do with the kit - I'm assuming he didn't mean "should I chuck it out or not?" - so my comments as to how he could use the kit stand. However, I do agree with you, wholeheartedly.

It's like me saying "go AG" - it isn't the question asked, hence why I didn't say it. I'm only addressing the question he asked.

I would think that there'd be no DMS - but realistically, most kit beers taste like they have it (among other things). Don't ask me why, but I can pick it up.

AFAIK - amber is already heading down the BIAB line. I wish I'd known about it, I'd have skipped many years of extract brewing and gone from K&K straight to AG.

Goomba

 

[bignath]

Another vote for using it as yeast starter food.

 

[yum beer]

Personally anything that has the name Cascade on it is not welcome at my house......
They brew shit beer, why should their cans be any different.....F#%k it off, throw it at the neighbours cat, use it as a door stop, tie a rope to it and use it as an anchor, but
for the love of god...dont brew the fucken thing....

 

[Deebo]

I reckon out of date can would make a fairly average beer so would just throw cheap ingredients you dont mind losing at it.

 

[bignath]

Personally anything that has the name Cascade on it is not welcome at my house......

My freezer has little foil packets with Cascade written on them... :blink:

 

[Pennywise]

Sorry mate, I don't fully understand what you mean.

Sorry, could have been a bit more detailed, posting on my phone with a couple under my belt is not my strong point If you use liquid yeasts at all (or even re-using yeast slurry that's been stored), you could use some of the kit instead of dme/lme to build up a sufficient amount of yeast for pitching into a full batch.

Another way to save chucking it would be to turn it into a stout/porter/dark ale, a good whack of roasted graing will help hide any flaws in the kit. I've done this a heap of times with good results & to be honest I don't really put much effort in to recipe builing with them. 1kg dme, 400g of pale choc, 100g of roast barley and a good yeast with a nice malty profile like Wyeast 1968, a good whack of pommy hops, EKG? should sort it out in to a decend drop :icon_cheers: I'd boil the kit also for 30 odd mins to knock out some of the shitty kit flavor which will be replaced with you own hop addition/s

 

[Amber Fluid]

Thanks erveryone for sharing your thoughts.
I have heard that by boiling the can long enough will basically rid the can of any pre-hops, so I thought it might just turn it into an "unhopped" can which is why I suggested it.

The can was given to me by someone who had not brewed for around 3 years and he had it in his shed for at least that long :icon_vomit: , I am at work atm so can't see the date on the can sorry.

I will use it as a starter. I didn't know I could do that with a can and at least it won't go to waste. I hate waste!....

So to use it as a starter is it the same amount as if it was LDM/DME? ie I think 10%

Also just for reference, I have got myself a nice new 40L Crown Urn and about 80kg grain through the last Tassie bulk buy and have been talking to BribieG who has been a great help/influence. Just need a bag now and I'll be kissing these K&Ks goodbye. I have about 5 tins left stored so it won't be long now. :kooi:

 

[yandy5000]

Overall with extracts you might find some to be tasty and others to be twangy. Hot fermentations will give you yuck yeast tastes, too low you risk sticking which means froth and very little beer. At just the right temp you should get a smooth beer provided you are using the best malt extract you can get your hands on. Mind you, this will only be 'beer like'. I will not knock kit brewing, it's the best way to start out fermenting. I have made some fine kit beers, but if they aren't tasting spot on it's the fact that all extracts are a concentrate and this means you have to re-constitute it with water. Think cordial or juice from concentrate, it does not taste like freshly squeezed fruit juice.

That aside, kit beers and extract can be really tasty but do get the best quality extracts you can find and liquid yeast makes a world of difference (dried yeasts are great but re-hydrate or make a starter). I found that after a while my kit and extract brews were costing a lot and turning out some tasty batches, at this point they go beyond just drinkable.

Everybody has a bad homebrew experience, often when you mention homebrew people raise their eyebrows. Some will say that it was as good as any beer, that could depend how much beer they drink and whether they pay attention to the flavour in detail or just quaff. Sometimes people get discouraged by a bad brew, or repeated brews with undesirable or unexpected flavours.

Don't be! keep brewing and when you're ready you will make better beers. When I started I thought that making a beer like carlton draught would be a piece of piss, well it's not!

best regards,
Yandy