What Makes Megaswill Just So Crap?

[Ducatiboy stu]

2. Pride of Ringwood hops. Breweries use it because they can get the maximum bitterness for the minimum amount of ingredient, due to it's high bitterness. It also helps cover up the thinness of the can sugar mentioned above. The problem is it's bitterness comes at the expence of flavour.

WHOA....Tony will have kittens when he reads this..

I wouldnt be blaming POR...I have made several beers ( and Coopers make Pala & Sparkiling with this hop ) and they are fine..and I dont mind it as a Hop by itself.....

 

[geoffi]

POR seems to fit the saying, "A good servant but a poor master".

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

POR seems to fit the saying, "A good servant but a poor master".

A good brewer can make POR rich...

 

[floppinab]

If you want to taste the light struck flavour take a bottle of vb, pour into a clear glass and leave out in the sun for 8 minutes. Rebottle and put in the fridge overnight - Uggh :angry: . It tastes more like cat's p*ss (the yanks say it smells exactly like skunk).

Prolly a fair bit of oxydisation using that method as well shonky. If you want to sample "pure" lightstrike grab a bottle of that light ice or extra dry stuff, anything Aussie made in a clear bottle. Leave it in the sun for a day, chill it down and sample. We tried this during the BJCP study sessions last year, you could smell it coming from the glass a metre away, just think what that fluro light in the bottle shops is doing to this stuff. :icon_vomit:

 

[Julez]

On the whole I agree with the gist of everyone's comments, but I still enjoy a nice, cold Carlton Draught on tap. It's quenching and has that nice, nutty flavour that is very distinctive and a lot different to the bottled product. As for the beer tasting crap warm - who cares, it's not meant to be consumed warm!! Would you chill an English Bitter to lager temps before drinking it?

Obviously craft-brewed beer is going to be nicer to someone that truly appreciates a good brew. It's like instant coffee vs. brewed. But to compare megaswill to craft-brewed alternatives, the difference is a mass-produced, cost-cutting, volume-based product, compared to a small batch, niche-based, premium-priced one - No brainer! Those with more educated palates should feel fortunate. I assume you all ONLY eat grain-fed beef, drink French Champagne and eat home-baked bread with fresh butter as opposed to margarine too! Unless you only consume the best of everything, then I am quite sure every one of us puts away plenty of mass-produced crap in one form or other!

 

[darrell.wallace]

I could hardly finish the last commercial beer that i had but there were plenty people around me who enjoyed the same product immensly.

If i was going into a business to make money i would make sure i produced a product that took the biggest slice of the market possible. This i guess is the difference with micro's. they are deliberately aiming for a niche market because it is soemthing they feel pationately about.

Having worked in pubs for many years it never ceased to amaze me the amount people could drink in one night (or morning or afternoon) any time of the day really. The business managers at CUB and the like have done a great job in marketing their products and ensuring the continued success of their business.

I brew because i would much prefer a beer with style and flavour but it is not for everyone.

 

[BoilerBoy]

A good brewer can make POR rich...

Totally agree, I'm a convert,

As far as "megaswill goes" Someone on this site a while back and I can't remember who it was described most commercial breweries as "Manufactures of beer" rather than brewers.

Designed by accountants,
Sold by clever marketeers.
To the utterly ignorant.

Cheers
BB

 

[peas_and_corn]

They are very dry, very light bodied, brewed with very lightly flavored malts, use a fair proportion of sugar adjunct in the brewing process, are brewed at quite high temperatures for beers that are "technically" lagers and are bittered either with purley ISO hop extract or a combination of that and a high cohumulone/high Alpha hop.

So they have very little malt flavour, very little residual sweetness, very low body, no hop character to speak of and a relatively harsh bitterness.

All of that adds up to fairly easy to drink in large quantities beer - if its ice cold. Which is a suitable beverage for mass consumption in a hot climate. Let it warm up and there are no pleasant flavours for the harshness to hide behind, so it just tastes harsh.

I personally think that the "nasty" aspect of Aussie mega brew is a direct result of it being the product of an almost exclusively hot country. The mega brew from every tropical or mostly hot country (at least the ones I have had) is actively unpleasant if allowed to warm up.. because you are meant to get it into you ice cold ; and therefore some of the niceties of flavour don't really matter and are ignored by the brewer. Drink it the way its supposed to be drunk and you wont taste it anyway.

Now look at the megaswill in countries where it gets properly cold .... Germany springs to mind, but the US is probably a better example. Their mega brew isn't like ours, it might be bland, boring, watery etc etc.... but it isn't nasty. Because in a colder climate people might not be so fast to chug down a glass of ice cold beer, and the beer has to be able to stand up to being a little warmer on consumption. So while they aren't flavour explosions, at least they don't taste actively bad.

That my theory anyway.

Thirsty

Certainly! However, there's one aspect which worries me, but seems to be the case- many Australians don't really like the taste of beer. The problem is that the breweries push for large market stuff, which means that they do what has been mentioned earlier- make stuff that tastes all right at 0C. this forum is abound with stories of seeing people at bars turning their noses up at craft beers and then downing a couple of XXXX.

 

[Julez]

Having worked in pubs for many years it never ceased to amaze me the amount people could drink in one night (or morning or afternoon) any time of the day really. The business managers at CUB and the like have done a great job in marketing their products and ensuring the continued success of their business.

That's an interesting comment - I'd be interested to know the rate of alchohol abuse comparing consumers of mass-produced beer to craft-brewed beer. Logically, people who would drink the craft-brewed stuff would "appreciate" the beer more and therefore consume it more moderately, one would assume...All depends of the objectives of the drinker - save money, get blotto or actually enjoy the beer!

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Two things make Australian main stream beer crap:
1. Can sugar. It makes the beer thin. Breweries use it because it's a cheap way of getting alcohol levels up. It's illegal to put can sugar in wine, why should it not be illegal to do so with beer?

2. Pride of Ringwood hops. Breweries use it because they can get the maximum bitterness for the minimum amount of ingredient, due to it's high bitterness. It also helps cover up the thinness of the can sugar mentioned above. The problem is it's bitterness comes at the expence of flavour.

Tooheys have a third problem in that their yeast is just plain terrible. It's what gives their beers that soapy taste.

Add to this commercial practices are underhanded. I believe when a brewery introduces a new beer that make it to a relatively high standard. After a certain cycle where they now have regular drinkers, they then start cutting costs over a long period of time. The result is, over a long period, their very ordinary product becomes just plain rubbish.

Sorry ibast, gonna have to disagree with you there.

Can't talk for Tooheys, can for the other side.

1 - Its not purely cane sugar. The levels of sugar are (as someone else mentioned) around 20% of the fermentables, and only around half of that is sucrose. Plus its not really to lower costs because the sugar is "cheaper" its to increase throughput of the plant by allowing a higher kettle volume with a smaller malt charge and therefore a smaller mash-lauter tun and a faster mash - lauter time. Oh and largely its to achieve a deliberate lightening of the body of the beer because the mainstream Australian palate doesn't actually like a full bodied beer. Anyway - nothing wrong with sugar, the belgians use a high proportion of it to some sucess I notice.

2 - People keep banging on about the POR hops. Firstly as a few people have said already... nothing wrong with the hops. Coopers tastes fine and its all POR. Secondly - think of the a (non Tooheys) widespread mega brew ... whichever one it was, chances are there weren't any damn POR hops in it. Not a single pellet, Its all done with ISO. Don't know about tooheys, but I strongly suspect that they are the same. Oh and beers made with ISO are less likely to get lightstruck than if they were made with actual hops... its one of the reasons its used. It still skunks, but not as quickly/severely.

3 - sorry, but your last point is just plain wrong. Doesn't happen like that. I've been a brewery worker for 19 years and it just doesn't go that way.


People need to remember - doen't matter what your homebrew refined sensibilities tell you - this is a market economy. The beers taste the way they do, because thats the sort of beers that sell well. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people who drink beer in this country and indeed the world like that sort of beer... and billion dollar companies are in the business of giving their customers what they like.

Doesn't mean we have to though - craft beer, homebrew - buy it, make it, spread the message.

 

[PostModern]

On the whole I agree with the gist of everyone's comments, but I still enjoy a nice, cold Carlton Draught on tap. It's quenching and has that nice, nutty flavour that is very distinctive and a lot different to the bottled product. As for the beer tasting crap warm - who cares, it's not meant to be consumed warm!! Would you chill an English Bitter to lager temps before drinking it?

Obviously craft-brewed beer is going to be nicer to someone that truly appreciates a good brew. It's like instant coffee vs. brewed. But to compare megaswill to craft-brewed alternatives, the difference is a mass-produced, cost-cutting, volume-based product, compared to a small batch, niche-based, premium-priced one - No brainer! Those with more educated palates should feel fortunate. I assume you all ONLY eat grain-fed beef, drink French Champagne and eat home-baked bread with fresh butter as opposed to margarine too! Unless you only consume the best of everything, then I am quite sure every one of us puts away plenty of mass-produced crap in one form or other!

I eat Helga's or local bakery bread, no margarine. Sure we have some canned items in the pantry, but mostly we eat fresh veg, often from our own garden. When it comes to plonk, I could be drinking anything from $3 cleanskins to Henschke, depending on the occasion and yes, I even sometimes buy Aussie megaswill, but not often, sometimes, it's a cheap source of bottles

Sure we all have some mainstream mass produced products from time to time, but some of us don't seek them out.

 

[ibast]

Not sure I agree with that (can't believe I am defending Toohey's New ) It is my understanding that James Squire Pilsner is brewed using Toohey's New yeast (and their Ale's using Toohey's Old).

Yep and I could taste it when they went over and I stopped drinking their product at that point.

 

[Fatgodzilla]

People need to remember - doen't matter what your homebrew refined sensibilities tell you - this is a market economy. The beers taste the way they do, because thats the sort of beers that sell well. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people who drink beer in this country and indeed the world like that sort of beer... and billion dollar companies are in the business of giving their customers what they like.

Doesn't mean we have to though - craft beer, homebrew - buy it, make it, spread the message.

I don't think its necessarily that everyone likes the beer for its tastes. The market has been "conditioned" by advertising and availability to drink the beers that are readily available. The beer they get in cans / on tap is what they are used to having and in true human style, they are comfortable with it. They don't want to change cos they feel safe with their product. That's why 90% of the people who drink your homebrew cringe cos it doesn't taste like VB or XXXX or New. Most will cringe at Coopers for goodness sake. The other 10% might feel happy to drink something new, but 90% of them will go back to the pack. As a rule its people like us that move away from the midstream. We are the exceptions.

 

[Jazzafish]

I think the following recipe specifics have a lot to do with it:

Little to no specialty malt
Up to 40% sugar in fermentables
Final gravities below 1.008 (test for yourself)
Hop extract instead of hops
Polyclar strips a lot of flavour... along with chill haze
Fast ferments... 1 week lagers
Pasteurisation

 

[ibast]

The beers taste the way they do, because thats the sort of beers that sell well. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people who drink beer in this country and indeed the world like that sort of beer... and billion dollar companies are in the business of giving their customers what they like.

No, beer tastes the way it does because breweries can get away with it and it costs more to do otherwise. Australians believe their beer is strong, but in reality it is a thin beer that is heavily hoped with a very unsubtle hop. The hops is used to hide how low the malt level is.

The big two breweries are in the buisness of making money not beer. Beer is just a means to getting the money.

And I disagree with your stretch to the world. The rest of the developed world, and some underdeveloped countries are capable of making good beer without producing the piss that our major breweries do.

Oh and 20% sugar is criminal.

Fortunatly I think Australians are slowly waking up. It'll take a few generations.

 

[shonky]

If you want to sample "pure" lightstrike grab a bottle of that light ice or extra dry stuff, anything Aussie made in a clear bottle. Leave it in the sun for a day, chill it down and sample.

I thought that the light-ice and extra dry were hoppped with 'tetra' a reduced isomerized hop product added post fermentation, but could well be wrong. Tetra doesn't tend to produce the light-struck phenomena. Some of the other staling compounds in beers such as aldehydes can be highlighted by storage under extremes of temperature maybe this was what you could taste?

VB was used in the experiment that I was party to as it apparently DOES use real hops!!

Cheers

 

[bonj]

No, beer tastes the way it does because breweries can get away with it and it costs more to do otherwise. Australians believe their beer is strong, but in reality it is a thin beer that is heavily hoped with a very unsubtle hop. The hops is used to hide how low the malt level is.

The big two breweries are in the buisness of making money not beer. Beer is just a means to getting the money.

And I disagree with your stretch to the world. The rest of the developed world, and some underdeveloped countries are capable of making good beer without producing the piss that our major breweries do.

Oh and 20% sugar is criminal.

Fortunatly I think Australians are slowly waking up. It'll take a few generations.

The mega lagers are in no way "heavily hopped". I wouldn't call 20 IBUs heavily hopped. Thirsty Boy is right. Whether the public want crap beer because that's what they've been trained to like isn't the issue anymore.

 

[Julez]

No, beer tastes the way it does because breweries can get away with it and it costs more to do otherwise. Australians believe their beer is strong, but in reality it is a thin beer that is heavily hoped with a very unsubtle hop. The hops is used to hide how low the malt level is.

The big two breweries are in the buisness of making money not beer. Beer is just a means to getting the money.

And I disagree with your stretch to the world. The rest of the developed world, and some underdeveloped countries are capable of making good beer without producing the piss that our major breweries do.

Oh and 20% sugar is criminal.

Fortunatly I think Australians are slowly waking up. It'll take a few generations.

I'm sure their goal is profit, rather than beer making, per se, but their profitability demonstrates their success. As you say, "they get away with it". That means people like it!! Otherwise, they wouldn't buy it. Just because YOU don't like it...

People make their buying decision not just on flavour and quality anyway. There are many other factors - pricing, product availability, brand alignment, drinking it because their mates do....

 

[maltedhopalong]

"The hops is used to hide how low the malt level is."

Don't know that I necessarily agree with this. If anything, more hops mutes the maltiness even more. I.e. if they wanted to hide how little malt flavour there was, you would think they would try to accentuate it by DECREASING the hops.

I +1 to the idea that the hops profiles they use are to portray local beer as being "strong" (tough, etc.) when in fact it is (in relative terms) very light flavoured. Like has been mentioned, the hops levels they use are apparently quite low (i.e. rarely above 25, 26) but it dominates the taste profile due to the low maltiness.

 

[mfdes]

The idea that we drink mainstream brand beer styles because they're essentially pushed on us is pretty ludictous. The beer industry in Australia has gone through major changes (it originated as an extension of what was happening in England in the 19th century), and these changes have been largely consumer driven. A new beer consumers like will sell well and gain market share (VB in the 70s). A new beer that consumers don't enjoy will lose market share and sink into oblivion (many come to mind).

People who blame POR for bad tasting beer don't know how to use them.
Those who blame adjuncts have not tasted Belgian beers.

It is what it is and it sells well because people like it. Whether this is conditioning or free choice is irrelevant. It just IS.

MFS.