What Is This Grain Variation?

[Tony M]

As I now use a 24V battery charger on my grain mill, I'm aware of the current draw.
The last couple of crushes of JW Pilsner malt needed a current draw of around 7 amps. I purchased a new bag last week and the draw was down to 3 to 4 amps. I did not change any settings on the mill so this variation must be something to do with the grain hardness or toughness (for want of a better word).
Can anyone enlighten me?

 

[Pumpy]

As I now use a 24V battery charger on my grain mill, I'm aware of the current draw.
The last couple of crushes of JW Pilsner malt needed a current draw of around 7 amps. I purchased a new bag last week and the draw was down to 3 to 4 amps. I did not change any settings on the mill so this variation must be something to do with the grain hardness or toughness (for want of a better word).
Can anyone enlighten me?

I believe it to be moisture content of the grain or husk .perhaps due to recent rains and moisture content of the air .

I put some water on my grains before 15 mins before crushing .

The moisture just gives elasticisity to the husk and the crush does not shatter them.
the crush is purfect

Pumpy

 

[roger mellie]

I put some water on my grains before 15 mins before crushing .

The moisture just gives elasticisity to the husk and the crush does not shatter them.
the crush is purfect

Pumpy

Pumpy

Am just finishing constructing my grain mill - I like the idea of what you do. A couple of questions:-

Around about how much water do you add to the grain?
How does this effect the flow through the grain mill hopper?
Do you use a different crusher gap for dry and wet grains?

Thanks

RM

 

[Pumpy]

I put some water on my grains before 15 mins before crushing .

The moisture just gives elasticisity to the husk and the crush does not shatter them.
the crush is purfect

Pumpy

Pumpy

Am just finishing constructing my grain mill - I like the idea of what you do. A couple of questions:-

Around about how much water do you add to the grain?
How does this effect the flow through the grain mill hopper?
Do you use a different crusher gap for dry and wet grains?

Thanks

RM

Roger,
I use about 125-150ml just sprinkle on the grain and mix in well the 15 min allows it to absorb into the husk it is not wet at this stage , I set the rollers for about 0.7mm ( i dont have a heavy knurling on the rollers ) it pulls into the rollers better this way ,I can crush dry at 0.7mm but would normally do it at 0.9mm.

As I have stated before Grumpy told me to crush as fine as you can with out getting a stuck sparge.

I get a lot of flour but the husk is so good I do not have trouble with stuck sparge.

I have seen various brewers crush and they are all different some of it very rough some of it vey fine , but they all get results .

Pumpy

 

[warrenlw63]

As I now use a 24V battery charger on my grain mill, I'm aware of the current draw.
The last couple of crushes of JW Pilsner malt needed a current draw of around 7 amps. I purchased a new bag last week and the draw was down to 3 to 4 amps. I did not change any settings on the mill so this variation must be something to do with the grain hardness or toughness (for want of a better word).
Can anyone enlighten me?

G'day Tony.

I think the term you're looking for is malt "friability" it's usually easy to check this by chewing a few kernels. If they're a little steely-tipped they tend to jar your teeth a bit. :lol: I find malts like Marris Otter don't do this but Powells and most likely JW Pils does.

I had my Marga set up with a wiper motor for a while with a battery charger that had an 8 amp cutoff. Trying to crush Powells malt would stall the motor quite frequently which lead me to believe that it was obviously drawing more than 8 amps.

I've now got my 18 volt cordless drill on the mill and can crush 9kg of grain on one charge If I'm crushing Marris Otter. If I crush Powells Trad Ale the battery on the drill goes flat about 75% into the crush.

I've also found that crushing with the Marga produces some very fine (dandruff) like bits of husk that seem fo to find their way into the boiler on occasion. Takes quite a bit of recirculation to clear this if it even totally clears at all. <_<

All that being said with my current crush I'm getting efficiency approaching 87-90% with Marris Otter.

Pumpy your idea of wetting the grain sounds tempting as I feel it would alleviate the tiny bits of shattered husk that get through to the boiler. I'd just be a bit worried about rust/corrosion on the Marga's zinc plated rollers.

Warren -

 

[wessmith]

Gidday Warren,

Your spot on with the "friability". The Powells we have seen and used is horrible but more recently we have also seen some variability in the JW pale malts. You can pick it straight away in the milling. We dont have any problems with MO - either the TF or Bairds versions or with Weyermann. We are also seeing the same "poor friability" problems as well as poor modification (steely ends etc) with malts up in China and in fact will be using Weyermann for that project.

Why is this so? Put it down to the "big guys". They dictate what mainstream maltsters produce everywhere in the world and most mainstream brewers dont want or need highly friable malts, dont want malty profiles and can easily achieve their extract with sophisticated mashing regimes. Thank goodness we still have some specialist maltsters like TF and Weyermann that service the micro markets.

Wes

 

[///]

from AME literature;

"(f) Endosperm Structure
The endosperm structure can be influenced by nitrogen content. Low nitrogen barley have mealy endosperms, there are fissures in the endosperm allowing more rapid uptake of water during steeping. High nitrogen barley lacks these fissures resulting in a steely endosperm and slower rates of water uptake."

 

[wessmith]

Not quite sure of your point here Scotty, certainly the English barleys and in particular, the winter crops are VERY low in nitrogen but the maltster can adjust his process to accomodate a pretty wide variation in nitrogen and of course all the other parameters. Weyermann do very nicely on European barley which is usually up around 10.5% to 11% protein against the English 9.0% or so. The Powells malts we looked at were around 10.5% protein also.

Wes

from AME literature;

"(f) Endosperm Structure
The endosperm structure can be influenced by nitrogen content. Low nitrogen barley have mealy endosperms, there are fissures in the endosperm allowing more rapid uptake of water during steeping. High nitrogen barley lacks these fissures resulting in a steely endosperm and slower rates of water uptake."

 

[warrenlw63]

G'day Wes.

Thanks once again for your informative posts mate...

Speaking of Marris Otter. I've noticed the current (Baird's) batch seems to have alleviated nearly all of its haze problems.

Myself and other brewers have noted this. I don't miss Fawcett's products quite so much any more.

As for Scotty I think it's only a matter of time before he starts quoting Kunze. :lol:

Warren -

 

[///]

Just adding some more info really, also notes made about seasonal factors such as drought and amount of rainfall.

also the notes related the protein matix of different malts, the effect of fertiliser on crops and excess nitrogen. The denser the protein matrix, the less 'water free' or air filled spaces thus incorporating lower pretien levels. A high proportion of air filled spaces equals mealy grain, grains with few air filled spaces are know as steely.

mealy grains allow rapid water penetration and uniform hydration of the endosperm, therefore more unified modification and superior malt. steely grains hinder endosperm hydration and enzyme distribution, producing less than desired outcomes.

 

[Tony M]

And there I was thinking friability was a fish 'n' chip thing.
Thanks for the information folks. From reading these answers, I believe that the lower my ammeter reads, the happier I should be. Or, do less friable or steely grains have an upside?