What do you do with first wort while sparging?

[punkrocker1991]

Hopefully not to dumb a question. What do you do with the first wort while you're sparging?

I'm using a GF S40, and batch sparging. I'm drawing off the first wort into a stockpot, then put this on the stove to gently heat while I batch sparge, running the recirc for 15 minutes or so.

Once I'm sparged, I pitch the first wort back into the S40 and apply the heat, which then has a pretty short ramp as the FW is around 80 degC by then.

Based on Brewfather, I'm getting mash efficiencies of 88-92% easy enough, so I'm happy with the processes, but am also getting a little under volume and a touch darker than I would have thought, which I'm guessing is from the extra heating the FW is getting, basically like a pretend decoction.

So more out of curiosity, what are other brewers doing with the FW while sparging?

 

[golfandbrew]

Hopefully not to dumb a question. What do you do with the first wort while you're sparging?

I'm using a GF S40, and batch sparging. I'm drawing off the first wort into a stockpot, then put this on the stove to gently heat while I batch sparge, running the recirc for 15 minutes or so.

Once I'm sparged, I pitch the first wort back into the S40 and apply the heat, which then has a pretty short ramp as the FW is around 80 degC by then.

Based on Brewfather, I'm getting mash efficiencies of 88-92% easy enough, so I'm happy with the processes, but am also getting a little under volume and a touch darker than I would have thought, which I'm guessing is from the extra heating the FW is getting, basically like a pretend decoction.

So more out of curiosity, what are other brewers doing with the FW while sparging?

Are you hitting your expected gravity? I assume higher if you're getting lower volume than expected.

How much less volume are you talking? My first thought is your darker wort is likely wort concentration which would be explained by the lower volume and higher OG.

Sounds like you're happy with the lower volume so either continue doing what you're doing and work on dialling in your gravity or brew for gravity and work out your volume.

Either way you're not really heating the first wort that much more if at all. Especially given you never reach boiling before adding back to the GF.

Most brewers on a 3 vessel would have similar heating of concentrated wort while slowly fly sparging.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Based on Brewfather, I'm getting mash efficiencies of 88-92% easy enough, so I'm happy with the processes, but am also getting a little under volume and a touch darker than I would have thought, which I'm guessing is from the extra heating the FW is getting, basically like a pretend decoction.

So more out of curiosity, what are other brewers doing with the FW while sparging?

It isn't really clear where your loss of volume is. Is it post-boil or pre-boil? As you are indicating your 'mash' efficiency I would presume pre-boil in which case just add more water. Have you got your own losses worked out? Loss to grain, trub, dead space, and boil-off.
Always wise to work out your own 'Brew-house' efficiency not a predicted number.
Also, I agree withthe previous poster that the heating of your wort will not impact the colour being darker.

 

[shmick]

I assume the GF S40 is an all in one system with a mash basket?

There is no need to remove any wort during the process.
Heat all of your brew water (total) to strike temp, then remove the volume you want to sparge with to another vessel.
Do the mash, raise the basket and sparge with the set aside water over the top.
No need to recirc.
Turn your heating on while sparging to get a head start on the boil.

 

[punkrocker1991]

I assume the GF S40 is an all in one system with a mash basket?

There is no need to remove any wort during the process.
Heat all of your brew water (total) to strike temp, then remove the volume you want to sparge with to another vessel.
Do the mash, raise the basket and sparge with the set aside water over the top.
No need to recirc.
Turn your heating on while sparging to get a head start on the boil.

Thanks, i hadn't thought of doing it that way, might give it a try and see what it does for efficiency.

 

[punkrocker1991]

Are you hitting your expected gravity? I assume higher if you're getting lower volume than expected.

How much less volume are you talking? My first thought is your darker wort is likely wort concentration which would be explained by the lower volume and higher OG.

Sounds like you're happy with the lower volume so either continue doing what you're doing and work on dialling in your gravity or brew for gravity and work out your volume.

Either way you're not really heating the first wort that much more if at all. Especially given you never reach boiling before adding back to the GF.

Most brewers on a 3 vessel would have similar heating of concentrated wort while slowly fly sparging.

Am generally hitting a couple of points higher, partly as my mash efficiency is also high (I have been calculating at 85%). I'm often coming around 500ml-1L low, not a huge deal but I'm brewing 12L batches so it's a chunk in proportion (the calcs are a little hazy as the S40 only has graduations to 20L so there's a bit of guess work when I'm aiming for 18.5L pre boil, so only once it's in the fermenter can I get a more accurate measurement).

I've no issue in tweaking my water calcs once I've got a bit more data to base it on. The wort being more concentrated does make sense -- the batch that really made me think about this was a dunkelweizen that should have been 38 EBC but ended up about 1L short and the colour of a porter.

But I was really just curious as to how others were treating their FW, as it doesn't usually get a mention in any guides (except in context of FWH).

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Am generally hitting a couple of points higher, partly as my mash efficiency is also high (I have been calculating at 85%). I'm often coming around 500ml-1L low, not a huge deal but I'm brewing 12L batches so it's a chunk in proportion (the calcs are a little hazy as the S40 only has graduations to 20L so there's a bit of guess work when I'm aiming for 18.5L pre boil, so only once it's in the fermenter can I get a more accurate measurement).

I've no issue in tweaking my water calcs once I've got a bit more data to base it on. The wort being more concentrated does make sense -- the batch that really made me think about this was a dunkelweizen that should have been 38 EBC but ended up about 1L short and the colour of a porter.

But I was really just curious as to how others were treating their FW, as it doesn't usually get a mention in any guides (except in context of FWH).

If you are only doing 12 litre batches cut out the sparge and go full volume. Makes life a lot easier.

 

[akx]

If you are only doing 12 litre batches cut out the sparge and go full volume. Makes life a lot easier.

Agreed. I usually get lower efficiency, but the time savings is worth it to me. Buying grain in bulk makes it minimal extra cost.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Agreed. I usually get lower efficiency, but the time savings is worth it to me. Buying grain in bulk makes it minimal extra cost.

Unfortunately, efficiency seems to be a number that brewers get into their heads it is a target to aim for, the higher the number the better the beer which isn't the case at all. I get 60 to 63% and am more than happy with that considering I brew all my beers on full volume. Unless sparging is done slowly at the correct pH then the risk of disappointment is higher.

 

[MHB]

Agree, go full volume if you have the room. Your efficiency shouldn’t go down too far and you should be getting better tasting beer; along with the time saving.

Here is the obligatory graph.

I suspect you are getting a bit of evaporation loss during mashing, it is generally regarded as 2% and a lot of brewers (& software) don’t allow for it. The loss to grain is also a range, mostly based around the crush. People often forget to correct for temperature, same wort hot is bigger than it is cool and all calculations are based on 20oC...
Work out what your are really getting and use that in your calculations.
Mark