What Could Be Making My Beers Lose Their Quality?

[manticle]

So my Chimay Blue recipe that I'm making tomorrow calls for adding Crushed Black Grain post boil. Then strain into brew.

Manticle - do you think that's ok as the specialty grains aren't boiled or would it make a little more sense to strain the grain into the brew prior to the boil following the process you mention above?

I'd follow the tried and true process. Easy enough and good practice for mashing if that's where you want to head.

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...;showarticle=80

 

[Amber Fluid]

Thanks Amber Fluid. Just read the How to Brew page and agree it sounds like that could be it. Perhaps the yeast is still producing by-products during conditioning. But if that's the case, how do I stop that? I already leave the beer in the fermenter for 1 week post achieving final gravity. Is there anything else I can do? Or will the change discussed here help to stop that (better bottle washing, cleaning tap in fermenter, not shaking bottle, etc)?

If you are leaving your beer in the fermenter for a week after it has reach FG it has more chance to go off. However, a lot of people do this but they usually rack it into a fridge, or place the fermenter in the fridge. (cold conditioning)

 

[manticle]

Leaving your beer on the yeast at ferment temps (not high temps) after primary has finished is a good process that allows the yeast to continue working to clean up fermentation byproducts.

Cold conditioning is great but should not be done as soon as FG has been reached.

 

[felten]

Word, letting the yeast clean up the beer at fermentation temperature is a good idea, one or two weeks is no problem depending on the beer and temp etc, and if your beer is going off after 1 week on the yeast cake I would look at other reasons. Any longer than 1-2 weeks and you might have problems though which is where the 2ndary would come in, but that's only on a few beers ie. lagers.

 

[Hoser]

Cool. I'm setting up to steep black grain tonight for brewing tomorrow. Should I leave uncovered or covered? Does it matter?

 

[Hoser]

Oh and as for the conditioning point I do the following:
- leave in fermenter 1 week after achieving FG
- bottle and leave at same temp (generally low 20's) until I drink it anywhere from 2-3wks+ later

I don't store in anything colder at any point after bottling. Think that's a good idea to store it in colder temp after 10 days or so post bottling?

 

[Hoser]

Wow. There was a bit of gunk in tap once I broke it apart. Good call. That may have been contributed to the taste getting poorer after a few months in bottle...

 

[Hoser]

whoops. Steeped grains with hot water from tap instead of cold by accident. Will that make a big difference if I leave that overnight now?

 

[brad05]

Another suggestion is that you should minimise the aeration of your wort while it is still hot. Cool it in your boil pot and once it has reached fermentation temps then aerate.

 

[Hoser]

Sorry what do you mean by aerate? Is the wort aerated when it's added to fermenter? Generally I pour the hot wort into the fermenter and immediately add cold. Why would I want to wait for the hot wort to reach fermentation temps?

 

[brad05]

Another suggestion is that you should minimise the aeration of your wort while it is still hot. Cool it in your boil pot and once it has reached fermentation temps then aerate.

You should be as careful as possible with hot wort not to splash it around. Use a tap or siphon to drain it carefully to your fermenter. Again carefully add cold water to your wort without splashing. Then once it has reached fermentation temps give it a good splash around and aerate it to create a good environment for the yeast to do its stuff

 

[MHB]

If good beer gets worse when packaged there are really very few major causes, and in this case its almost certainly going to be a persistent low grade infection.
Too much trub carrying over into the fermenter can lead to long term stability issues (not really an issue for a kit/extract brewer).
Too muck oxygen pickup during packaging (only an issue if you filter or pasteurise beer), yeast will clean up any O2 you pick up, so again not really an issue unless you are doing something monumentally stupid (which by the sound of it your not).
Infection, some of these can be a right bugger to eliminate (even in commercial operations), in fact its just this sort of problem that ruined Reschs.
The infection can be in your equipment, in the air, in the brew room or even on your pet cat.
Do a minimalist beer, something low in hops and colour. Use a new fermenter, brew in a different place, bring none of your equipment into the new brewing area, wait and see if you have the same problem.
Sorry thats just the way it is.
MHB

 

[mwd]

Sorry what do you mean by aerate? Is the wort aerated when it's added to fermenter? Generally I pour the hot wort into the fermenter and immediately add cold. Why would I want to wait for the hot wort to reach fermentation temps?

You should get your wort aerated when you are mixing up with the cold water just stir the bejesuz out of it.
I am lucky as I have a kitchen tap on a hose that has a spray setting like a shower now that really aerates the wort.
You can of course just pour your cold in a good height this will help to drive some more Oxygen into the wort.

In answer to your previous question your steeping should be fine as long as the hot water was not piping hot so hot as you cannot put your hand in. 65-70C is ideal for short time steeping around 30 mins. Colder just means it takes longer for the liquor to dissolve the sugars and add colour.

Sounds like you are doing alright.

 

[manticle]

Sorry what do you mean by aerate? Is the wort aerated when it's added to fermenter? Generally I pour the hot wort into the fermenter and immediately add cold. Why would I want to wait for the hot wort to reach fermentation temps?

Aeration when hot or fermenting or fermented is bad. Aerating when cool pre ferment is good.

I think the tap gunk removal should help.

Steeping will be no drama - just make sure you boil the liquid. Also worth mentioning that grain should be cracked first (seems obvious but my first foray into steeping used uncracked because I didn't know any better)

 

[Hoser]

Cool thanks folks. So I think the brew went well today. Made Chimay Blue recipe with Light malt dry extract, Light malt extract can, honey, black grain (crushed), sugarbeet candy, hallertau hops and goldings hops.

Only thing is I still poured the hot mixture into the fermenter when hot and then added cold water to get to 15L (full volume per recipe).

Then I stirred it a lot while it was still quite warm. Bad? Anything I can do? Frustrating for this part cuz the Brewing Crafts book doesn't caution waiting for the boiled wort to cool before stirring.

Good to still stir anyway once I get it down to 18 degrees or have I done it in already? Hoping not but is what it is now I guess.

 

[Hoser]

Looks like I may have figured out why my beer doesn't seem to keep it's great taste longer than a few months. I've been transferring the boiled product immediately to the fermenter then adding cold water and stirring vigorously before waiting for the temp to drop naturally to room temp (which usually took 12hrs or so) to pitch yeast.

Looking at How to Brew (http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter7-4.html) that seems like it could be my issue. I do get some Chill Haze which is also consistent with a lack of Cold Break and thus stale beers earlier than otherwise would be accepted. Might also be oxidizing/contaminating by stirring so early.

Oh well, it's done now. Will learn from it and if past experience is any example, the beer will still turn out quite good - just won't last more than a few months before the taste becomes somewhat sub-par.

Think I finally got to the bottom of it! Thanks for all the ideas folks! Will be sure to accelerate cooling and aerate post cooling in future batches!!

Cheers!

 

[DUANNE]

if youre using extract i wouldnt worry about break at all for now.and cooling the correct temp over 12 hours shouldnt be a problem if every thing else is in good order. my advice is to keep every thing clean and sanitised a little more thoroghly and the problem will go away. also i find the taps never seem to work as good once broken apart and new ones are 1.50 from bunnings so for me they get replaced every 3rd brew or so.

 

[Hoser]

Cool thanks Beerhog. I was incredibly meticulous in my sanitizing this time so I think that will help too. Trying to get the fermenter down in temp now but won't worry too much about it...

 

[mwd]

a few misconceptions

 

[Hoser]

Hey folks. Just a quick update - Chimay knock attempt seems to be doing very nicely. Fermented at consistent temp of 20 degrees after pitching yeast at approx 17 or 18.

Also tried a few more of my brews from last year and was pleasantly surprised. It's really only the one batch that's gone funny - not all of them. I was thrown off because I actually had a bad beer from an Amber Ale batch that I was very happy with. The next two I've had from that batch have been fine.

Took the careful steps everyone recommended anyway though so hoping the beers can only get better!

Woohoo!