Wetting grain before milling Vs not wetting it

[MHB]

There are too many variables to answer, it isn't something that I have spent a lot of time researching.
I had a customer who was having a lot of stale flavours in quite young beer, he was wetting the grain and leaving it overnight, after we did a bit of research on staling he stopped doing that and the problem went away.
It will happen at ambient , is 20-30 minutes going to be long enough to make a noticeable change to the beers shelf life I don't know, the textbooks recommend 1 minute at 80oC to get the desired hydration of the husk while minimising other problems. Unless I knew a lot more about brewing than Kunze (I don't) I would go with that, or give it a miss entirely (more likely)

I wasn't really trying to start a great debate about the activity of one fairly obscure enzyme, rather to highlight that in brewing all the choices we make have consequences - some of them unforseen. A bit like all the talk a while ago about pressurised fermentation, it to can have pros and cons, there are potential benefits if it is done properly and downsides if you do it wrong.

I think a good mill and well selected crush (or two) and hydration is fairly much more trouble than its worth, but try it and see if you get better beer, if you do good if not - well lesson learned and move on.
Mark

 

[Eagleburger]

How many people mist their grain with water before crushing it to prevent husk damage, and do you find an improvement in lautering and mash efficiency from it.

I mist about 100ml onto 10kg. tap water and mill about 15mins later. I noticed That I still get get a lot of flour but have trouble finding husk fragments. I have a top recirculating system and get a very good flow through with minimal husk material after boil. Yet to experience staling, but fresh is best. I think the longest beer has survived is three weeks. :chug:

Thanks MHB for the food for thought.

 

[Fat Bastard]

I tried this conditioning thing over the weekend... Been having trouble with stuck mashes and odd grain bed behaviour since I built my new rig, a 3V HERMS thingo.

Probably over did it with the water (1 cup to 10kg), gummed up the rollers something fierce, but was very happy with the results. No more stuck mash. No more grainbed disintegrating when the pump is throttled back for the sparge. Seems fairly advantageous for my system, but whether or not the problems can be overcome remains to be seen. I've tried a lot of different crushes with this system, and ive not been able to get the recirculation perfect until now.

Will try with less water next time and see how it goes.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

There is a fine line with the water amount.

Try a bit less next time.

You will notice when its right husks are soft and not mushy...

 

[Fat Bastard]

Yeah, I figure I'll halve the amount I use the next time. I knew I screwed up the third time I had to empty the hopper. My hopper easily holds the whole 10kg, so it's fairly painful to do!

I guess then it's a matter of bringing the gap in until the mash sticks, then opening it up a little. Long-winded process, this brewing lark!

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Does it gunge up your mill? I dont like the idea for that. It makes sense not to. IMO

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Does it gunge up your mill? I dont like the idea for that. It makes sense not to. IMO

Not if you get it right

If its gumming up your mill then its to wet

 

[antiphile]

I have become a real convert to malt conditioning even though today was only my second crush doing it. Five weeks ago I got another sack of Barret Burston Pale Ale. Yet this particular batch seemed to taunt the millmaster rollers and wanted to jump up away from them instead of being pulled through. It was incredibly annoying and took forever to mill this stuff, even after altering the roller width up and down.

During the week I did an SNPA clone and was not looking forward to crushing 9 kg of the stuff. So the bullet was bitten and the Braukeiser method employed. (170 mls water misted over 9 kg a little at a time while thoroughly mixed by hand). Then left for 15 to 20 mins before milling at 0.9 mm roller separation. The grains couldn't wait to go through the mill (and absolutely no need for double-crushing! It really was superquick and simple. (Photo of this crush attached). I even gained a few more % of mash efficiency.

Today was a 10+ kg grain bill for an Oktoberfest using almost all Weyermann grains (pilsner, munich and vienna). Again it raced through the mill with fantastic results. It looks as though malt conditioning is now going to be standard operating procedure here!

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I rest my case. B)

You will even notice that conditioned malt actually pushes/squeezes the kernel out and leaves the husk in tact..

I bet your sparging was much better as well

 

[manticle]

Rehydrating grain. Whatever will they think of next?

 

[antiphile]

You're absolutely 100% right! For the cost of maybe an extra 30 minutes up front, it probably saved more than three times that in milling, mashing and sparging. I think I'm in love! :icon_drool2:

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Rehydrating grain. Whatever will they think of next?

You should what they do with yeast .....

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Nice Photo Antiphile.
I'll have to try this but I've never had any problem milling dry grain. I only have a twin roller. Connect the power drill. Fill the mill with 2kg grain at a time on lowest speed possible and mill 9kg in about 10 - 15 minutes? at most. Looks the same results a your pic just dryer and dusty. Then again I havnt tried it. I will!, maybe, sometime. B)

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

10-15mins...


My 2 roller mill ( 50mm knurled rollers ) does 5kg in about 1min flat with 30% flour at about 180rpm

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Thats what I mean. I couldnt be bothered timing the milling but its more likely less than I quoted.
More like a lesurely 10 minutes, :chug:

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

10 mins is a long time......

Maybe you should try wetting than get back to us on the result B)

 

[Danscraftbeer]

OK then! The next brew I plan is a symple PA to test a strain of cultured Coopers bottled yeast. A 20lt batch with about 4.5kg grain that will be lightly moistened prior to milling.
Thats my next brew then..... B)

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Your a legend for giving it a go and thinking outside the conventional brewers way of doing things B)

 

[Danscraftbeer]

pffhaah! You must be drinking some good stuff. As am I. :chug:

 

[antiphile]

Hi Dan

It sounds as though we have the same setup: a 2-roller mill and a power drill (mine's an Ozito 1050 watt low-speed high-torque spade drill). I tested various roller widths and found (after moistening as described above), 0.7 and 0.9 mm settings worked superbly. At 1.2 mm some grains just went through without being cracked at all. Here's a pic showing it at 1.2 mm.