Water Additions Question

[MCT]

Hey brewers, I'm having a crack at adding some minerals to my water for an upcoming ESB, and was just wondering how you all add them.
I'm looking at adding:
12.4g Gypsum
9.6g CaCO3
2g salt
2g Mgso4
for 37.81L.

I was initially going to split it all up to the proper ratios I'll be using for the water eg. Mash in, mash out and the sparges, but do I really have to?
It'd be a real pain to try and split up the small amounts, so I'm just wondering....

Seeing as though my mash Ph is ok without any of these mineral additions, can I just add it to the boil?
Or can I just add the whole lot the the mash then dough in? Or is this going to play havoc with my Ph and enzyme conversion?

How do you all do it?

 

[MCT]

Bumped for the night time crew...I'm brewing tomorrow morning.
It's probably a stupid question so I guess I'll just add the appropriate amounts to each addition on water.

 

[Screwtop]

Bumped for the night time crew...I'm brewing tomorrow morning.
It's probably a stupid question so I guess I'll just add the appropriate amounts to each addition on water.

MCT, posting your local water Analysis may help

Screwy

 

[MCT]

Screwy,
I've got the amount of the additions how I want them, I was just wondering how people add the additions. I was just trying to get out of splitting/measuring the total amount of salts needed to easch addition as that makes sense.
In a perfect world I would just have my total water needed + additions mixed up, but at the moment I am adding water to my HLT on the fly.
I guess what I want to know is if I add all my mineral additions to the mash, rather than spread it all out through mash outs, sparges etc, will it effect my mash.
I'm guessing yes.

 

[3G]

As screwtop said plus it would be good to know what EBC you are aiming for.

 

[Stuster]

I would add what you need to the mash to get it to the right pH. Any other additions you can just add straight to the kettle.

 

[Jye]

Seeing as though my mash Ph is ok without any of these mineral additions, can I just add it to the boil?

Weeeeell it depends you said you are not adding them pH reasons so you must be adding them just for flavour contributions and/or to get your Ca levels up. If this is the reason then you can add them directly to the boil.

Im also guessing this is for a 40L batch? otherwise your additions are way to high.

 

[fraser_john]

Im also guessing this is for a 40L batch? otherwise your additions are way to high.

Might be using rainwater? I have to add pretty large quantities for rainwater in a 24L batch. I add to both mash and kettle.

edit

hmmm looking at last w/e ESB brew it was:

4.9gm CaSO4 Gypsum
1.9gm CaCl Calcium Chloride
4.7gm CaCO3 Chalk
1.6gm NaHCO3 Baking Soda
4gm MgSO4 Epsom Salts

In the mash for a 17L mash volume.

end edit

 

[MCT]

Weeeeell it depends you said you are not adding them pH reasons so you must be adding them just for flavour contributions and/or to get your Ca levels up. If this is the reason then you can add them directly to the boil.

Im also guessing this is for a 40L batch? otherwise your additions are way to high.

OK gotchya. I will add just enough to get the Ph right for the mash, and the rest go in the boil.
As for being too much, I just worked on the PPM for each mineral to resemble a London water supply without going as crazy as Burton on Trent, while maintaining the right residual alkalinity for the colour beer I'm brewing.
Water volume is 38 litres, batch size is 23 litres.

 

[Jye]

Might be using rainwater? I have to add pretty large quantities for rainwater in a 24L batch. I add to both mash and kettle.

For 24 L of RO water I get;

Ca - 282 ppm
HCO3 - 239 ppm
SO4 - 322 ppm
Cl - 50 ppm
Mg - 8 ppm
Na - 33 ppm

If the salts were added to the mash then it would be ok since these levels would drop a lot. If added directly to the boil I would be worried about the Ca levels being so high.

 

[fraser_john]

Interesting Jye, I get 209ppm of Ca using the Nomograph for 17 litres of RO water! According to the promash version of Burton, Ca is at 268 ppm. I then go ahead and add EXTRA in the kettle to keep the ppm ratios correct after sparging with extra rainwater.

John

 

[MCT]

For 24 L of RO water I get;

Ca - 282 ppm
HCO3 - 239 ppm
SO4 - 322 ppm
Cl - 50 ppm
Mg - 8 ppm
Na - 33 ppm

If the salts were added to the mash then it would be ok since these levels would drop a lot. If added directly to the boil I would be worried about the Ca levels being so high.

This is the amounts I was working off, got them from the Brewstrong podcasts recomendations. But your right, I have to account for the amount lost to grain absorption and mash tun deadspace.
That will roughly bring the total water used to 30L which will drop the additions, good advice! I didn't think of that til now.

I'll scale 'em back to 30L.

 

[Jye]

Hmmm something is going on? Here what I get.

 

[Screwtop]

Screwy,
I've got the amount of the additions how I want them, I was just wondering how people add the additions. I was just trying to get out of splitting/measuring the total amount of salts needed to easch addition as that makes sense.
In a perfect world I would just have my total water needed + additions mixed up, but at the moment I am adding water to my HLT on the fly.
I guess what I want to know is if I add all my mineral additions to the mash, rather than spread it all out through mash outs, sparges etc, will it effect my mash.
I'm guessing yes.

I calculate salts required depending upon style for total brewing water using my local water analysis, Amount required to treat the water volume for the mash is then added to the mash and the remainder to the kettle.

Hope this helps,

Screwy

 

[fraser_john]

Hmmm something is going on? Here what I get.

View attachment 28206

Yeah, I see, I was using my values versus the orginal values (12gms CaSO4 & 9gms CaCO3), so thats the difference

 

[MCT]

This is what it looks like on mine:
Beer is 13 SRM

 

[Jye]

Looks good

 

[bulp]

Sorry for the thread hyjack but where did yuse get that nifty slide scale from next to the nomagraph, ive had a bit of trouble getting my analysis of minerals from our water supplier too, did you blokes pay for your own water testing ?

 

[Jye]

You should be able to get a water analysis from your council/water provider... we are having a PITA time getting a recent one from BCC, SEQ or who ever handles it now <_<

Linky for slide bar App http://nomograph.babbrewers.com/

 

[MCT]

So basically I should:
1. Calculate the additions amount on the boil volume then,
2. Work out the minimum amount required to get the RA right for the mash
3. Work out the loss of the minerals from absorption/deadspace
4. Subtract the amount of 2-3 from 1
5. add the rest to the boil.

Haha I'm confusing myself.