Vic Xmas 2009 Case Swap - Tasting Thread

[Fourstar]

Well i sucked back one tongiht... well had a few sips

3. Seemax - Kiwi Pale Ale

Popped the top, citrus aroma followed by an aceto bacter aroma (vinegar). Flavour nothing but all Vinegar with some lactic sourness (my teeth are so gritty). Maybe if this was a Belgian Dubel and turned into a Flanders or something of that description it may be enjoyable. Unfortaunatly in this state its undrinkable.. Sorry bud.

 

[Kleiny]

Zebba #17 IPA

Zeb im sitting back having one of the multiple extra's left and really enjoying your IPA.

This bottle is good, i would suggest for the IPA that you move some of your hop additions to later in the boil to really push the aroma and flavour. You need to do something about clearing it up a bit. Try gelatin at the end of ferment. or change up the base malt for a more modified malt, you could also do a 2 step mash so protein at 50-55 then conversion at 66ish.

The malt has a great taste dont mess with the recipe other than the hops and really smash the flavour and aroma.

good work some slight adjustment

Kleiny

 

[Leigh]

I must put the rest of the swaps in the fridge and get stuck into them...I have been really slack this time around!

 

[Fourstar]

I must put the rest of the swaps in the fridge and get stuck into them...I have been really slack this time around!

h34r: Just make sure they are not infected. Past 4 ive had have been funk.

 

[zebba]

I had:
- 14. sappas -Altbier
- 15. Don Mateo - Hefeweizen
- 20. Gava - Golden Ale
- 25. Beerdingo - APA

Problem was, I took them to a BBQ foolishly thinking I'd remember each one and be able to write notes later. Alas, my memory is not what it used to be! All I can say with certainty is that they all hit the spot very nicely, and helped me soldier through the evening.

I think I've got 2 more left in the fridge... I try to get them knocked over this week. As between a trip to Slobeer and a couple of trips to the "101 beers" store in Yarragon (Gippsland) - well, there is just too much beer to try and not enough liver to try it all with!

 

[hairofthedog]

7. Brendo Galaxy Amber Ale

very nice beer mate i dont normally like amber ales but with the galaxy which theres plenty of i really quite like it cheers mate

 

[brendo]

7. Brendo Galaxy Amber Ale

very nice beer mate i dont normally like amber ales but with the galaxy which theres plenty of i really quite like it cheers mate

glad you enjoyed it mate!!

 

[brettprevans]

tapped my 2nd keg of my caseswap contribution (aussie style lager). it tasted fine. no signs of infection....so maybe i buggered up cleaning a few of the bottles ratehr than the keg being infected. interesting.

anyways i must get on to drinking the rest of the swap beers.

 

[Fourstar]

anyways i must get on to drinking the rest of the swap beers.

Saying that i recently had:
21. Hutch - Nelson Sauvin pseudo-lager

Great beer, i didnt go into much detail judging etc as i had friends over. I did notice a touch of diacetyl which was the only thing in the way of faults. Other than that its a well crafted and very fruit tingle like beer! Had an awesome aroma and balanced quite well with sweet malt lingering and begging for antoher mouthfull. Quite a tasty offering there Hutch!

Cheers! :icon_cheers:

 

[Fourstar]

Well ive had another couple more over the past week:

20. Gava - Golden Ale - Unfortunatly this was a wall of acetaldehyde. Hops tasted good but the malt was completly masked by winey apples.

14. sappas -Altbier - Awesome beer Sappas! Rich, toasty, sweet nuttiness. My first impression was a JS Amber Ale with a richer body and a toasty chocolate finish. Very good and dare i say one of the best in the swap. Thanks for the enjoyable beer lastnight!



So far, the experiences ive had with this swap have been underwhelming and have been concured by other brewers involved in the swap. The most deperessing part is we are brewing these beers in the best conditions (winter/spring) ready for the swap so there should be minimal excuses for fermentation issues. Unless you did it uber late of course.

The biggest faults i have found with these beers are: Infections, Acetaldehyde, Diacetyl in that order. I think we all need to take a few things away from this swap and that is:

1. Sanitation, Sanitation, Sanitation. Especially your bottles and ensuring they are cleaned and sanitised well before bottling. I found alot of beers that where noted as being ok early in the game, after a few months in the bottle turned south pretty quickly. Acetobacter seemed to be the main culprit with Acetaldehyde noticable and alot of beers turning to vinegar.

2. Temperature control. Try and keep your fermentation as stable as possible by storing your fermenter in an area where there is minimal temperature fluctuation. I personally don't brew if i know there is going to be more than 3deg of temperature differential in my fermentation area. If i know there is i regulate it with an ice bath in the laundry sink. These fluctuations will lead to issues like acetaldehyde and diacetyl due to early flocculation, yeast stress, etc. Oxidation can cause acetaldehyde too so ensure when you are bottling/racking you dont have any splashing.

3. Pitching rate. Following on from temperature control, make sure you are pitching enough yeast if you are using a liquid culture. 1 smack pack is not enough if its a few months old. If you are underpitching and having to deal with temperature issues during the growth phase and fermentation as described above, you can almost guarantee yourself to have plenty of precursors left in the beer come completion. Atleast create a small starter (500ml) and then pitch, even if tis just to ensure viability as it will be worth your while. Oh, and dry yeast users should rehydrate when possible.


At the end of the day this swap is designed for us to learn from each other and enjoy the fruits of our labours. As it turns out, there has been alot of learning for majority of the group which should improve the quality of beers for the next case swap.

Cheers guys, i hope this feedback can help! :icon_cheers:

 

[gava]

Mine was fermenter in a fridge with tempmate so temp was correct.. new coopers bottles soaked in saniclean before bottling..

It did taste nice early on i sampled a few.. what else could have been the issue?

Well ive had another couple more over the past week:

20. Gava - Golden Ale - Unfortunatly this was a wall of acetaldehyde. Hops tasted good but the malt was completly masked by winey apples.

 

[Fourstar]

Mine was fermenter in a fridge with tempmate so temp was correct.. new coopers bottles soaked in saniclean before bottling..
It did taste nice early on i sampled a few.. what else could have been the issue?

I would contemplate blaming where im storing them (next to the beer fridge in the kitchen/dining area) although sappas beer was perfect so we can rule that out. Other than an infection taking hold over time (pointing to wild yeast or something else) im not too sure. Have any spare bottles you can taste to see if we can isolate the issue? May have just been a bad bottle although it would mean im getting all the dogy ones!

Was it fresh new yeast or a repitch? You might have some symbiotic fermentation going on from some other yeasts picked up along the way and the bad stuff is chewing away at it over an extended period.

 

[zebba]

The three things you listed are certainly the 3 biggest things I've taken from this 4*. I thought the first 2 I had down OK, but I think I'd just been living in denial on the sanitation front (everyone gets a few infected bottles in a batch, right? WRONG!), and the temp management got upgraded to something more reliable shortly after the swap.

The yeast management was the one big-un though. Hutchy pointed it out in his review of my beer, and his comments were reinforced by a few other testers. So since then I've worked on getting the right amount of yeast for the brew. This means no "big" beers from a single safale sachet, for a start. For shts and giggles I've even tried reculturing a few yeasts up from bottle dregs, just to see how it all works and what flavours I get out of the reculturing (before tipping them down the sink). Worth the effort for the cost of a couple of $'s worth of LDME. The TTLL we did at the swap was also from a reculture (from some sludge given to me by warmbeer), and that little bit of extra effort doing that right paid off with a pretty darn nice beer at the end of it.

Thanks everyone for the feedback. Next swap, if I get a possie, I'll be submitting something that at the very least should be a bit more consistent across the batch

 

[Fourstar]

what else could have been the issue?

#20 Gava Drs Golden ale judged against APA 10A
...

Flavour: Citrus hop flavour right up on the first sip, some caramalt style background and the balance on the bitter side and hop preceeds the malt, some slight oxidation probably from the low bottle fill, possibly add more the hop bill later in the boil to really kick the citrus flavour.
14/20
...

20. Gava - Golden Ale
I was getting a little 'green apple' falvour, but wasn't sure if that was just the summer ale part of it though.
edit: Oh, and the bottle wasn't filled to the top.

This was a common theme with the bottle i got regarding excessive headspace. I think we have found your culprit for acetaldehyde. See below.

Oxidation can cause acetaldehyde too so ensure when you are bottling/racking you dont have any splashing.

So, even if you are bottle conditioning you should still limit the O2 in the bottles to avoid oxidation and this will include excessive headspace. This a reason why macro brewerys force carb and counter pressure fill. To avoid oxidation, improve shelf stability and avoid our dreaded rotten apple friend.

 

[gava]

new packet of safale us-05 used for this brew..

I keg so I dont see the point to test to see if I can reproduce crap beers in bottles just finished my fatyak clone keg lastnight which tasted awesome throughout the drinking period of a few months.. no bad tastes the hops just mellowed out a little bit..

was a bit of a hurry i must admit to get it down so maybe i stuffed up somewhere.. next time I'll take more care I think..

cheers for the feed back..

I would contemplate blaming where im storing them (next to the beer fridge in the kitchen/dining area) although sappas beer was perfect so we can rule that out. Other than an infection taking hold over time (pointing to wild yeast or something else) im not too sure. Have any spare bottles you can taste to see if we can isolate the issue? May have just been a bad bottle although it would mean im getting all the dogy ones!

Was it fresh new yeast or a repitch? You might have some symbiotic fermentation going on from some other yeasts picked up along the way and the bad stuff is chewing away at it over an extended period.

 

[gava]

cheers.. that was a mistake on my behalf.. last time I filled bottles they were glass and lets just say only half made it.. so i didnt know how much to fill them up.. next time I'll fill up more and see how they go..

cheers for making sense of it all

This was a common theme with the bottle i got regarding excessive headspace. I think we have found your culprit for acetaldehyde. See below.



So, even if you are bottle conditioning you should still limit the O2 in the bottles to avoid oxidation and this will include excessive headspace. This a reason why macro brewerys force carb and counter pressure fill. To avoid oxidation, improve shelf stability and avoid our dreaded rotten apple friend.

 

[Fourstar]

cheers.. that was a mistake on my behalf.. last time I filled bottles they were glass and lets just say only half made it.. so i didnt know how much to fill them up.. next time I'll fill up more and see how they go..
cheers for making sense of it all

I'd say we have hit the nail on the head gava.

Atleast this rule falls for everyone now. If you dont fill your bottles enough (or cap on foam) expect oxidation or acealdehyde. Dont be a tight arse if you think you wont have enough beer to fill the bottles guys. If you dont have enough beer from the batch, sub a few bottles from another batch. Its better than serving everyone faulty beer.

 

[Leigh]

cheers.. that was a mistake on my behalf.. last time I filled bottles they were glass and lets just say only half made it.. so i didnt know how much to fill them up.. next time I'll fill up more and see how they go..

cheers for making sense of it all

If you are using a bottling wand, fill the bottles until nearly overflowing, when you remove the bottling wand they'll be perfect!

 

[Fourstar]

12. Hairofthedog - imperial stout

Currently sucking this back. Very complex vinuous characters, toastyness, roast, coffee, nuts, campfire ashes, damp wet fern plantation/forest... The list goes on.

I'd have to say it has almost everything a RIS needs but unfortunatly its very full on the palate and the impression i get is that its a little under-attenuated for a RIS and somewhat cloying. Kind of reminds me of judging the old ales at beerfest. All where very syrupy and under attenuated but good beers much like this one.

I'd say if you could get this to drop 5-8 OG points and compensate somewheat with probably 10 IBU pints more this would be an absolute corker mate!

Great work either way! :beerbang:

Rough Score: 31-34/50 (make the above changes and it would push it close to/over 40)

Cheers! :icon_cheers: