Vic Case Swap Xmas In July 2010 Tasting Thread

[zebba]

@ Wakatoo - I'm not in this for a circle jerk. If people have negative things to say then I WANT them to say them!

@ Wardhog - Not sure about the apple flavour, but the sharp taste could be the fuggles. When it's young (which it is) the fuggles do come through rather sharp. It's something I really love about them though. I'm definitely interested to hear other peoples thoughts on this. Dry hopped fuggles aren't to everyones tastes, but I really like them and wanted to put something a little different in.

FTR, it was bottled 3 weeks before the swap. IMO it's best young, but that's my personal preference.

 

[Fourstar]

Not sure about the apple flavour, but the sharp taste could be the fuggles. When it's young (which it is) the fuggles do come through rather sharp. It's something I really love about them though. I'm definitely interested to hear other peoples thoughts on this. Dry hopped fuggles aren't to everyones tastes, but I really like them and wanted to put something a little different in.

Acetaldehyde would be the 1st thing i would point to apple characteristics. Either way, if i get much of a chance tonight i'll pop yours in the fridge and give it a taster.

 

[WarmBeer]

1. WarmBeer - American Porter

Light mild nuttiniess and cocoa on the nose and a lingering soft malty sweetness. A delicate citrus hop aroma also present, quite clean otherwise. Deep brown in appearance with some haze. Very low carbonation produced no foam. a pocket sparkler was used to knock a nice rich creamy tan hean onto it. :icon_cheers:

Palate resonates the aromas. Dusty cocoa, gentle coffee with a nutty/biscuity malt palate. A low hop flavour and a gentle but balanced bitterness. Moderate body and as noted earlier, mild to no carbonation. bitterness is quite balanced and toasty notes linger in the finish.

As an American i was expecting alot more from this. Something BIGGER, more like SN Porter or a Robust porter. It didnt live up to that expectation but thats ok, It was a great porter nonetheless and ticked all the boxes on the lighter (flavour and hops) end of the scale. As for the carbonation, as a bigger porter it would need it, being lighter i think you got lucky with this one. Was it a one off bottle with a bad seal (reused cap)? Futher responses will tell the story i guess.

Overall, pretty much a US brown porter if you ask me and would happily sink a couple of pints on a cool evening like tonight.

Great work WarmBeer, a well crafted ale! :icon_chickcheers:

Glad you liked. No really, seriously glad you liked it

It is basically the Brown Porter recipe from BCS, but I subbed in half a kilo of polenta for half a kilo of base malt, and used US style hops all the way.

In retrospect I could have upped the hopping, but I was trying to make a Porter with a US slant to it, rather a "Take it to 11" American beer.

 

[Fourstar]

Glad you liked. No really, seriously glad you liked it
It is basically the Brown Porter recipe from BCS, but I subbed in half a kilo of polenta for half a kilo of base malt, and used US style hops all the way.
In retrospect I could have upped the hopping, but I was trying to make a Porter with a US slant to it, rather a "Take it to 11" American beer.

Yes, it was a really good beer WB! Quite impressed with it. If you noted it as a brown porter that expectation of a face slapping hop and roasted malt beer would have been different but either way once it hit my lips the flavour was devine! I think with a fortnight or so crash chilling in the fridge to drop out some extra yeasties will really clean it up and help it shine. It was a good guesstimate on my behalf of it being a brown porter hey! Now is that the BJCP training coming into play or just a good palate?

 

[beerDingo]

Hey Sappas,

Glad you liked it!!! However, I did not end up putting in the Slipstream Cream Ale, as I wasn't completly happy with it. I did however have a keg of it at Fents house. It was the one near the door to go into the bar, in the Gatorade mash tun. It seemd to be getting better with a little aging, and it is a new beer to me, so may have been overly critical.

However, I ended up putting in a Pale Ale (I have updated the wiki). I was originaly going for a Fat Yak style beer, but then just added a little of this and a little of that for the grain bill. It's got Nelson Sauvon/Cascade. I will update the recipe thread when I get a chance.

Sorry for any confusion.

Cheers
Dingo

#7 beerDingo - APA/Slipstream Cream Ale Clone

Pours a golden amber color, probably at the darker end of what was expected and was a bit hazy. Nice tight persistent head. Aroma has hints of caramel laced with hops. Upon tasting, well balanced combination of malt and hops with carbonation that was spot on. A well made beer. If the rest of the case swap beers are as good as this - I'll be wrapped...

sap.

 

[manticle]

#2 Zebba: Fuggled amber ale

Pours rich amber, quite clear, tight head which persists.

Aroma slightly fruity and sharp. Not quite sure what it is.

Carbonation slightly higher than I like but I like reasonably lower than many. Still not overly gassy although I may have burped once.

Flavour has something about it that reminds me of faro (the one bottle I had yonks ago so an unreliable memory at best). Slightly sharp, acidic and a tiny bit of sour.

The acid/sour/sharp fruit might be what some people are describing as apples - it doesn't taste like acetylaldehyde to me. The slight sourness isn't vinegar sour by the way, nor does it overpower the beer. No idea if it's deliberate but it's at a level that works with the fruitiness. I quite like it. Might be the fuggles dry hopped as you say - I've only ever dry hopped with EKG and target as far as UK hops go.

My review may not make it sound to everybody's taste but I'm finding it quite refreshing in the way a saison is refreshing (and the level of sourness is around that level - not kriek).

A tiny touch of toffee at the finish (so toffee apples?).

 

[wakkatoo]

#1 Warmbeer's American Porter

First time I've had an AP and was very impressed. Loved the roast an nutiness flavours. Reminded me a little of eating toast (a good thing!). Carbonation was very low. Bottle felt soft when I picked it up and wasn't going to drink it until I saw that you had said it was ready to go.
I'll be having a go at this recipe, as it was certainly a tasty beer!

 

[manticle]

#7 Beerdingo: Whatever it was he put in the swap

I confess I actually cracked this last night but due to having a fairly shit evening, declined to post my impressions. Being a fair kind and just man, I saved a bit in the fridge so the review is based on my memory of last night, accentuated by another glass full right now (allowed to warm to room temp which in my house is sometimes nipple bullet degrees).

Last night's I remember being clearer than this but this is the end of the bottle. Slightly murky amber/orange. Good fluffy tight head, remains and laces the glass.

Aroma is fruit and caramel. Makes me happy when hoppy beers promise malt too.

Flavour is in line with aroma. Lots of fruit, hint of passionfruit, nice kick of bitterness at the back with malt sweetness cutting through to the end racing neck and neck with the bitter. Body is medium, nice mouthfeel.

I've always been a fan of maltier beers or balanced beers rather than hoppier/hop forward beers but this is the kind of hoppier beer that I would choose to drink. It balances all the elements even while it favours the hops and hops need malt backbone (just like malt is usually better with hop bitter, some exceptions possible).

Good beer, glad you put it in. Nothing like fat yak and thank god for that. Fat yak is a passable beer when it's in good condition - this is much more interesting.

 

[Wardhog]

#4 - Manticle - ESB

Love the label work.

This is a cracker of a beer, but one thing lets it down. Pours well, looks brilliantly clear, tastes fantastic at first.

Lots of nutty malt and balancing hop bitterness and flavour when it first hits your tongue, but fades out leaving something behind that at first I thought was alcohol, but now agree with Fourstar's call of astringency. I'd love to have pints of this once the astringency gets sorted.

 

[manticle]

Wish I had more bottles left so I could locate the astringency. I reckon if two people call the same thing, it's a likely issue.

Interesting as my sparge temps are usually around 80 or just under and I only sparge once and water additions were nothing over the top. Grain is usually a reasonable crack - not too fine.

There is and should be a slight warm alc note as this exists in the beer it's an attempted clone of but I wouldn't confuse alc and astringency. If anyone has more hints on what could cause it I'd love to know as I intend to make this beer again.

Cheers for the review.

 

[WarmBeer]

17. Shimple - Northern Lights Hog Ale

Colour looks the goods, a beautiful burnt orange. A little cloudy, but we're all grown-ups around here and can live with that Really compact yeast in the bottom of the bottle allowed me to get just about every last drop out.

Carbonation seems pretty low, not much head, just recedes to a ring around the outside of the glass.

Aroma is subtle, much more subtle than I expect for an A(I)PA. I get a little bit of lolly, and a little bit of vegetal or pine leaf. Subtle.

For me, the overall impression is sweetness. There is definitely bitterness in there, but it tasted biased towards sweetness. Approach is more like an English style pale ale than an APA, but using American hops. Letting the glass warm up makes it even moreso like a pale ale.

I like it, but I think it needs more hops at the flavour and aroma stages. Maybe this is characteristic for an East-coast IPA (never tried one), but it's not "in-yo-face" the way West-coast IPA's I've tried have been.

B-.

 

[Supra-Jim]

4. Manticles ESB

Fantastic deep red colour and very clear. looked great in the glass. Fairly sublte hop flavour/aroma, but a nice malt presence. I did notice a bit of the astringency 4* mentioned, but overall I really enjoyed this beer. Well done.

Cheers SJ

edit: forgot to mention the nice work on the label!!

 

[Kleiny]

I'm not in this for a circle jerk.

But im sure you would be up for a 26way dutch rudder. :lol:

 

[zebba]

I'm a man aren't I?

But im sure you would be up for a 26way dutch rudder. :lol:

 

[Leigh]

But im sure you would be up for a 26way dutch rudder. :lol:

That's an image I didn't need first thing in the morning :blink:

 

[Fourstar]

There is and should be a slight warm alc note as this exists in the beer it's an attempted clone of but I wouldn't confuse alc and astringency. If anyone has more hints on what could cause it I'd love to know as I intend to make this beer again.

Def not a hot alcohol issue, it would be solventy with noticable excessive esters. It could be a yeast issue also, have you used this strain often? Did you have any troubles with the ferment? Any strange temperatures at any stage? That astringency could be the begining of the typical burnt rubber you can get from unhealthy yeast but from memory i dont think this was the case.

Honestly, at this stage i think its probaably recipe related. See below

Young’s Special case Swap batch
...
Caramelise 2 L

Strike:
2g calcium sulfate
1g Calcium Chloride
3 g Calcium Carbonate

Boil
2g Calcium sulfate
1g Calcium Chloride
3 g Calcium Carbonate (not so much of an issue here)

What part of the runnigns are you caramelising? if you are boiling down tannic runnings, this could be heighteneing the astringency.

I'd avoid using CaCO3 in the mash and in the boil next time. Also, are you weighing the salts with gram accurate (or better) scales? What looks like an eyeball of CaCO3 of roughly 3g might actually be 6-7. Even 3g adjusts the pH quite abit and the HCO3 to 150ppm to be precise. I'd look at avoiding it altogether with a host sparge of 80deg. You should never really go above 77 especially if you have water with carbonates in it. I used to spare at 77 and now sparge at 73 for safety and i notice no differene in my efficiencies so i dont go that high anymore. Quite pointless for me todo so.


Suggestions for re-doing this beer.

- NO Carbonates.
- Caramelise middle runnings, not head or tail.
- Lower sparge temp.
- Ensure you pitch healthy yeast, if possible i'd think about top-cropping form a currently fermenting batch so you get the 'cream of the crop' (pun intended)

 

[brettprevans]

Def not a hot alcohol issue, it would be solventy with noticable excessive esters. It could be a yeast issue also, have you used this strain often? Did you have any troubles with the ferment? Any strange temperatures at any stage? That astringency could be the begining of the typical burnt rubber you can get from unhealthy yeast but from memory i dont think this was the case.

Honestly, at this stage i think its probaably recipe related. See below



What part of the runnigns are you caramelising? if you are boiling down tannic runnings, this could be heighteneing the astringency.

I'd avoid using CaCO3 in the mash and in the boil next time. Also, are you weighing the salts with gram accurate (or better) scales? What looks like an eyeball of CaCO3 of roughly 3g might actually be 6-7. Even 3g adjusts the pH quite abit and the HCO3 to 150ppm to be precise. I'd look at avoiding it altogether with a host sparge of 80deg. You should never really go above 77 especially if you have water with carbonates in it. I used to spare at 77 and now sparge at 73 for safety and i notice no differene in my efficiencies so i dont go that high anymore. Quite pointless for me todo so.


Suggestions for re-doing this beer.

- NO Carbonates.
- Caramelise middle runnings, not head or tail.
- Lower sparge temp.
- Ensure you pitch healthy yeast, if possible i'd think about top-cropping form a currently fermenting batch so you get the 'cream of the crop' (pun intended)

even though im not participating in the swap, can I just say that its this kind of feedback that makes the caseswaps worthwhile. of course not everyone is going to get that type of feedback (which is fine)., But the point of these tasting threads to to help others with perfecting beers, processes. methods etc etc. not a circle jerk as previously mentioned.

of cours if there are great beers and its all rave revioews then thats also great. its like a mini compition then.

anyways ill let you blokes get back to your tastings.

 

[Fourstar]

even though im not participating in the swap, can I just say that its this kind of feedback that makes the caseswaps worthwhile. of course not everyone is going to get that type of feedback (which is fine)., But the point of these tasting threads to to help others with perfecting beers, processes. methods etc etc. not a circle jerk as previously mentioned.

of cours if there are great beers and its all rave revioews then thats also great. its like a mini compition then.

anyways ill let you blokes get back to your tastings.

Quiet YOU!

But yes, its one of the great things about these swaps. As long as you are not going to take offence to feedback or only expecting steam to be blown up your caboose, you can end up with really valuable feedback from the swap. I for one expect everyone to tell me if my beer was not up to scratch or had problems that i did not think existed. Thats for more valuable than "Great Beer!" But it quietly went down the sink.

 

[WarmBeer]

<snip>... or only expecting steam to be blown up your caboose...</snip>

I don't recall that part of the case swap. Must have happened after I left to go home :lol:

 

[Fourstar]

I don't recall that part of the case swap. Must have happened after I left to go home :lol:

Indeed! We were making Mocha crapachinos!