Using An Urn

[opposition]

Hi all,

I've made the move, now just to get the equipment.....

Apart from heating water for mashing, would i be able to use an urn as a HLT or kettle? (puts on flame retarding suit!)

I'm just after some ideas here....

Cheers,

Dean

 

[opposition]

Thanks for that.....

I don't have one yet, i'm just looking for ideas on how to build my AG setup.

I'm setting up in my garage/bar and have a good amount of space. I will be running water to it and getting a laundry trough.

Does anyone know any topics on here or sites from which i can get some ideas???

 

[Screwtop]

Some Urns are fitted with Simmerstats so pretty inaccurate unless used with maybe a Mashmaster, some are fitted with Thermostats which are better at controlling temps.

 

[pbrosnan]

Thanks for that.....

I don't have one yet, i'm just looking for ideas on how to build my AG setup.

I'm setting up in my garage/bar and have a good amount of space. I will be running water to it and getting a laundry trough.

Does anyone know any topics on here or sites from which i can get some ideas???

Hi there,

I've used a 30l 2.4k urn as a kettle for a few years and have never had a problem. I also have a 30l for the HLT and a 20l for the HERMS heat exchanger. I'd say that the "caramilisation" or "scorching" issue is a myth. I'm planning to go to a 3.6k element as soon as I get a bigger amperage socket installed. Electric has some advantages over gas the main ones being a ready supply of electricity and an absense of flames and exhaust gases. I reckon if you can go electric you're taking a path of least resistance. Also a number of people around here have built their own electric setups because they don't have access to a commercially built urn.

 

[Millet Man]

Hi all,

I've made the move, now just to get the equipment.....

Apart from heating water for mashing, would i be able to use an urn as a HLT or kettle? (puts on flame retarding suit!)

I'm just after some ideas here....

Cheers,

Dean

Hi Dean,

I have 2 x 20lt 2400W urns and one 10lt 1600W urn and a 50lt SS pot with a 2400W element in it and a 2400W immersion heater.

You will only ever have problems with scorching if your wort is not clear, any crud carried over from the mash will settle to the bottom before you get up to a boil and may scorch but not always.

An electric immersion heater can be used in the mash without too much scorching so kettle is fine.

I'd recommend getting 30lt urns though for standard sized batches (20-23lt), my 20lt ones are ok because I got them cheap (just have to boil concentrated and top up fermenter) but I'd rather have 30lt units. Urn envy

The other thing to take into consideration is that a 2400W element will only boil off 4-5 litres in 90 minutes, which is plenty. I understand gas fired kettles can boil off up to twice that amount - depends on how hard you like to boil.

Cheers, Andrew.

 

[axl]

I use a 30 ltr urn as a mash tun. I have mashed up to 7kgs of grain in it. Works a treat & cost me nothing. I have insulated it with bed roll foam so temp fluctuation isn't a prob. Found a flat 30cm Dia SS strainer at woolworths for $5.00. Some quick modifications and it has made a perfect false bottom. 80% efficiencies every time & no stuck sparges. Don't underestimate the urn.

 

[pbrosnan]

You will only ever have problems with scorching if your wort is not clear, any crud carried over from the mash will settle to the bottom before you get up to a boil and may scorch but not always.
Cheers, Andrew.

I would think that the wort would have a much higher viscosity than normal before this became an issue. If your wort was that viscous then you probably will have a very large piece of hop flavoured toffee.
Remember, wort is almost completely made up of water.

 

[ausdb]

Urns are great n my book especially a 40L one with a 3kW element, a 20L is a bit too small as the others have said for a 20L finished batch size. Allowing for trub and boil off I can get about 27L of chilled wort into a fermenter with the 40L urn a few centimeters from the brim at start of boil. The other big benefit is the ability for timer control, add a cheapy timer and you can wake up to a HLT in the morning. They are also quite especially in comparison to a nasa burner so midnight brew sessions without upsetting the neighbors are good too.
With some sort of proportional element control so you can regulate the heat input they are a killer.

 

[Millet Man]

I would think that the wort would have a much higher viscosity than normal before this became an issue. If your wort was that viscous then you probably will have a very large piece of hop flavoured toffee.
Remember, wort is almost completely made up of water.

Just to clarify, my brewing experience is with a wide variety of grains and the only grain I have had major scorching problems with is buckwheat. The wort from buckwheat malt if great care is not taken can be very viscous either due to a high carry over of proteins or beta glucans and can scorch the element. While my experience is not of relevance to most brewers, I imagine worts containing a high proportion of wheat or rye particularly may exhibit similar behavior. That is why I said it "may" scorch, not that it will. And it's not the sugar that has caused scorching of the element, I have boiled worts of 1.100 SG and greater with an electric element without any problems, so no hop flavoured toffee issues.

Cheers, Andrew.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I just scored myself a nice 40L urn (2400W I think) and its my plan to use it mainly as an HLT. I primarily wanted the urn so I would have the ability to have it on a timer and be able to walk into my brewery to have water at strike temp already. I had a bucket of death HLT before, but never trusted it enough so that I was willing to have it turn itself on while I was still in bed.

The bonus is though, that its an auxiliary kettle if I need it - run out of gas, pump wort over to urn and keep going - I will probably try to boil a few batches in there anyway, just to see if I like it. If I do, I may modify my system and go completely electric.

For a BiaB system... I strongly suspect that a 40L urn is the ideal option. 1 piece of kit plus your bag... done. No gas bottle or burner to take up space. Your whole AG brewery could actually fit inside the urn and be put away in the bottom of a cupboard. A wife pleasing option.

 

[reg]

I just scored myself a nice 40L urn (2400W I think) and its my plan to use it mainly as an HLT. I primarily wanted the urn so I would have the ability to have it on a timer and be able to walk into my brewery to have water at strike temp already. I had a bucket of death HLT before, but never trusted it enough so that I was willing to have it turn itself on while I was still in bed.

The bonus is though, that its an auxiliary kettle if I need it - run out of gas, pump wort over to urn and keep going - I will probably try to boil a few batches in there anyway, just to see if I like it. If I do, I may modify my system and go completely electric.

For a BiaB system... I strongly suspect that a 40L urn is the ideal option. 1 piece of kit plus your bag... done. No gas bottle or burner to take up space. Your whole AG brewery could actually fit inside the urn and be put away in the bottom of a cupboard. A wife pleasing option.

Dan,
Seeing how as you put how good an urn would be for a BIAB system and such a wife pleasing option, I am now going to walk around for the rest of the day kicking myself in the arse.
Oh well one blokes loss is another brewers gain.
Good luck....

Reg

 

[Swinging Beef]

Other than waiting around optomistically on ebay for a 30litre urn, where else is a good place to get a good 2nd hand or a fair priced new one from?

 

[Cortez The Killer]

In the gong you can try Wollongong General Agency on Kiera St (for new stuff) or there's a place on Montague St that sells second hand commercial kitchen gear (not sure of their name though)

Might be worth a buzzy to each to find out prices and save leg work

Cheers

 

[JWB]

B)
Ive been using a 20ltr urn with a 2400watt element for about 5 years now and have never had a problem with burning or scortching.
I do mini mashes in it using a stainless steel sieve that I invented. Its much like Brew in the Bag Method. I also boil malt extract and hops in it but being only 20ltr capacity I find I have to watch closely for boil overs.
If anyone wants to clean your urn and element fill the urn with water and bring it to the boil. Add about 1/2 cup of CITRIC ACID stir well and turn off and leave overnight.
Next day the urn will be bright as new and the citric acid will not eat into the element or stainless steel.

I do this about once a month and my urn is like new inside always

Cheers

JWB B)

 

[ausdb]

I just scored myself a nice 40L urn (2400W I think) and its my plan to use it mainly as an HLT. I primarily wanted the urn so I would have the ability to have it on a timer and be able to walk into my brewery to have water at strike temp already. I had a bucket of death HLT before, but never trusted it enough so that I was willing to have it turn itself on while I was still in bed.

The bonus is though, that its an auxiliary kettle if I need it - run out of gas, pump wort over to urn and keep going - I will probably try to boil a few batches in there anyway, just to see if I like it. If I do, I may modify my system and go completely electric.

For a BiaB system... I strongly suspect that a 40L urn is the ideal option. 1 piece of kit plus your bag... done. No gas bottle or burner to take up space. Your whole AG brewery could actually fit inside the urn and be put away in the bottom of a cupboard. A wife pleasing option.

TB you have got yourself a winner there, just get a 20L plastic bucket (with a mesh false bottom) and a little circulation pump and you have your own mini RIMS system, even better than a BIAB as it's a BIAbucket
Seriously for single keg batches I heat my strike water in the 40L urn, mash in then heat some more and at mashour/sparge fill my mashtun to the brim (50L esky) then just drain back into the urn and start boiling.

 

[RobB]

How vigorous is the boil in an urn? Does anyone have any photos of their urn in action?

 

[ausdb]

Hi MC
It's hard to say, in my big urn (40L) with a 3kw element if I only boil 20L or so I get a very vigourous boil and 10% evaporation, but if I fill it up near the brim it is not so vigorous but still gets about 6% boil off. If I try and boil 18L in the 20L urn with a 2.4kW element I can get boil overs. Some sort of proportional heat control would be ideal, hopefully Randyrobs Brewbot adventure is going to help me make a system to drive a SSR so once I get the wort boiling then I can dial the heat back to suit the batch size.

 

[RobB]

Hi MC
It's hard to say, in my big urn (40L) with a 3kw element if I only boil 20L or so I get a very vigourous boil and 10% evaporation, but if I fill it up near the brim it is not so vigorous but still gets about 6% boil off. If I try and boil 18L in the 20L urn with a 2.4kW element I can get boil overs. Some sort of proportional heat control would be ideal, hopefully Randyrobs Brewbot adventure is going to help me make a system to drive a SSR so once I get the wort boiling then I can dial the heat back to suit the batch size.

Thanks for that. I've been making a few half batches recently to speed up my brewing education. It sounds like the standard 2.4kW will easily handle 12 litres.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Dan,
Seeing how as you put how good an urn would be for a BIAB system and such a wife pleasing option, I am now going to walk around for the rest of the day kicking myself in the arse.
Oh well one blokes loss is another brewers gain.
Good luck....

Reg

Shit Reg,

I thought you must have considered and rejected the urn option before you put it up for sale. If you really need it back, just gimme a yell and I'll let you indian sell. Its a luxury for me not a necessity.

Of course.... I'm brewing in a space that is barley bigger than your average toilet cubicle; whereas your pergola is bigger than my flat, and you have plumbed in natural gas, so you're gonna have to sob really hard to make me feel too much sympathy.

Thirsty

 

[Thirsty Boy]

How vigorous is the boil in an urn? Does anyone have any photos of their urn in action?

Cant say for the Urn, haven't boiled wort in it yet. But I have helped brew over at Spillsmostofit's place a few times and he boils with 2400W immersion elements.

He normally boils for 90mins, the first 30 with both elements which is a very vigorous boil, then for the remaining hour he just boils with the one 2400W element. IMHO the boil produced by the single 2400W element is more than sufficient. Having two of them just gets you to the boil a lot faster. This is for a pretty standard 23L into the cube batch, so say a 29-30L ish boil volume..

You could emulate this by having an urn as your kettle and a separate immersion element just to provide extra grunt at the front end, for heating up strike water and getting to a boil. Depends.... in a 3 vessel system with an urn as the kettle, I'd say that an extra immersion element would be a really useful bit of kit. For adding heat to the mash.. adding grunt to the kettle... the general ability to stick it in any given container of liquid and heat it up. In an Urn BiaB system - not quite as useful to you, but might well speed things up a bit and certainly wouldn't go astray. You do have to consider whether you houses circuit can cope with 20A of drain. Mine certainly cant, so its one element at a time for me.

In short, 2400W is enough, but not if you are impatient.

Thirsty