Using All Dried Malts In An Extract Brew?

[Pollux]

While on the way home from the shops today, the wife and I had a chat about my brewing, during which she asked "Can you just use the stuff you have at home and not buy the coopers kit tins anymore??"

The 'stuff' she is referring to is my delivery which arrived yesterday, 6kgs LDME, 3kgs DEX, 1kg Crystal, 500g Roast wheat malt and 100g of fuggles,goldings and cascade, plus some safale...

My current plan is to start using the above with the Coopers Real Ale kits, but in reality, if I am doing 20-30min hop boils, and steeping grains, why not just go all extract??

The question is, after roughly 3 hours of reading on this forum and others, are there issues using all dried malts and no tins at all? I have read stories of canned extract twang, while others have mentioned the using dried leads to less body....

So please, share with me your experience....

 

[bconnery]

While on the way home from the shops today, the wife and I had a chat about my brewing, during which she asked "Can you just use the stuff you have at home and not buy the coopers kit tins anymore??"

The 'stuff' she is referring to is my delivery which arrived yesterday, 6kgs LDME, 3kgs DEX, 1kg Crystal, 500g Roast wheat malt and 100g of fuggles,goldings and cascade, plus some safale...

My current plan is to start using the above with the Coopers Real Ale kits, but in reality, if I am doing 20-30min hop boils, and steeping grains, why not just go all extract??

The question is, after roughly 3 hours of reading on this forum and others, are there issues using all dried malts and no tins at all? I have read stories of canned extract twang, while others have mentioned the using dried leads to less body....

So please, share with me your experience....

No issues at all.
Much better than kits in my book because you control the beer.
I stopped using kits fairly early on and used this method for a number of years.
Extract + specialty grains for colour and flavour and eventually mini mashes.

Here's a link to a big post I did a while back on extract brewing.

 

[Gavo]

Definately no problem at all. I have just recently done this and have just bottled my third brew in this way. Far far better beer. Better still I find that I have been able to drink the brews as soon as they are carbed up. I will not be going back to kits. And I am betting once you have done this that you will not go back to kits either.

Cheers
Gavo.

 

[Pollux]

Thanks guys...

Anyone care to fire me a recipe so I can get the Minister of Finances approval?? As for Style?? Well, in terms of commercials I tend to lean towards JS Golden Ale, Amber Ale, Original Ale, and I was a big fan of the 2007 Hop thief....

I need to prove to her that the costing per batch will not blow out as compared to kit and bit...

 

[kevo]

Basic Brewing does a good series of video podcasts for a DME IPA with just DME and cascade hops.

I think it's called making a six-pack IPA.

start here, it's at the bottom of the page....

http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=video

Very simple and probably a good place to start.

Kev

 

[Jase71]

So what are the advantages of doing a dried malt + hops brew over a liquid malt (ie an unhopped can) + hops brew ? Same ingredients without the H2O hydration, no ?

 

[Pollux]

My main reason is price and storage, plus I don't have to use a set unit (i.e. a can)......

Can't wait till we next move, then the AG fun will be allowed to begin..

 

[Gavo]

So what are the advantages of doing a dried malt + hops brew over a liquid malt (ie an unhopped can) + hops brew ? Same ingredients without the H2O hydration, no ?

Never did use liquid unhopped malt, only dry. My thoughts are that with dry I can choose how much I want to use. If I were to use a can I would have to use all at once. One kilogram of dry is also equivalant to 1.25 kilo of liquid.

2c

 

[Pollux]

LOL, I just did the conversations to metric on that 6pk IPA then stepped it up to batch size of 23L......

LDME $40.02
Cascade $20.64
Safale S-04 $4.00

TOTAL $64.66

I don't see the wife approving that for some reason.......

 

[Jase71]

Then the choice is clear for you, hey.... time for a new wife.

I'm lucky in that regard that my partner is keen on my new hobby, and she enjoys beer over other beverages. In fact after she (over)-used most of my no rinse on the weekend for some Oztops ginger beer base, I pointed out that I needed some more by this Sunday, she sat down and ordered some online last night, and to justify the cost of shipping, decided to add a few other items. Best part of a hundred bucks later on her credit card.....

Anyway, back to the topic, Im very keen to try an all-DME brew (I figure this is what's referred to 'extract brewing' ?) so I have greater control over what goes in. Which means a huge pot, probably a gas burner of some sort etc.... ONE day this is going to pay for itself I'm sure......

 

[Bribie G]

I've made a couple of LDME pom style bitters and they have turned out great. Typical recipe:

2 kg LMDE
500 dex
300g lyles golden syrup

200g crystal steeped
East Kent Goldings and Fuggles in a 30 min boil
Dry hopped fuggles pellets

Nottingham or S04 yeast

I also made a variant with carapils instead of the crystal, Saaz and Tettnang and saflager s23 but it turned out way too dry for my taste. Did one virtually the same but incorporated a kilo minimash of lager malt - no golden syrup - and very nice.

If I were doing the bitter again I would probably up the LDME to 2.5k as it turned out a bit less alky than I like.

Jase: no need to boil the LDME unless you want to just bring it to the boil briefly in a couple of litres of water to sanitise for peace of mind. The only thing you need to boil is the litre or so of steepings from the crystal malt if you use it and the hops. If you are not using any adjucts like crystal malt, boil the hops in a litre or so of water with a bit of LDME added to increase the efficiency of the hop extraction (apparently it gives better results with some sugars present, I actually boiled the tin of golden syrup in with the hops to achieve this)
So no need to buy big boiling vessels, in fact the beauty of all extract is that you can do it with what you probably have in your kitchen already.


I know, over carbed to buggery :lol:

 

[Gavo]

Here (link) is an APA I did as my first extract. Tastes pretty darn good IMHO and in the opinion of my mates who finished it off, at a party last week, for me. Cost $27.00 for 21 litres. Can't really complain about that.

Huge pot and burner not needed for extract as the boil was only eight litres in a 12 litre on the gas stove in the kitchen.

Cheers
Gavo

 

[0M39A]

extract brewing is great.

no need to stick to a set recipe, just go for it

eg: basic apa:

3kg dried extract
200g crystal
bitter to 30ibu with xxx high alpha hop
20g of something american @ 15min
20g of something american @ flameout

21-23L

s-05 yeast

bit more detail:

steep your crystal in a litre or so of water @ 70c for 30min

rinse with warm water into a big pot, add a couple hundred grams of malt extract, up to 5L (or more if you can)

bring to boil, add bittering hops, 45min later add flavour, 15min later take off heat and add aroma

let it sit a few min, pour into carboy (leave as much trub behind, or strain).

add the rest of your malt extract, top up with water

let cool, then add yeast.

simple

want something english? use english hops, maybe a touch of choc malt for flavour, and use english hops and yeast.

 

[Pollux]

That sounds interesting...

Now to convince SWMBO that using $24 worth of LDME in one batch is acceptable....

Think I could use the "It was your idea" line??

 

[0M39A]

That sounds interesting...

Now to convince SWMBO that using $24 worth of LDME in one batch is acceptable....

Think I could use the "It was your idea" line??

my favourite is the "just think how much it would cost to buy the same quality commercial beer" then reel off the cost of a few expensive brews

$24 ldme, $10 hops, $3-4 yeast, $2 crystal (just wanted to round to $40 ) still doesnt even add up to a carton of decent commercial beer.

 

[Weizguy]

You'll soon be buying the pale (or dark/amber/wheat) DME by the bag or box of 25 kg.
That's the cheaper way, per unit of weight.

DME-based wheat (weizen and wit) beer can be very nice, and there are quite a few recipes out there. There are some styles where you need ag, but that's mostly to achieve the right colour and nuances of flavour. You can create most of those required flavours with good technique, the right yeast at the appropriate temperature, and the right hops.

This is why it took me so long to come to all-grain, and my first couple of grain beers were not as good as the DME beers.

Certainly worth a thought, and YES, you can do it with kitchen utensils and pots. A cheapie thin-wall stainless pot from a supermarket/department store will go a long way too. It will allow you to do close to a full-boil beer with most of the malt and all the hops, adding the remaining malt with about 10 minutes to go.

Check my earlier posts for DME recipes.
Beerz
Les

 

[Pollux]

I figure if I buy wool on my way to the post office to collect my supplies from the HBS, then I MIGHT be able to get away with it...

Or...

"Honey, this is just more proof I need to get into AG"

EDIT: Just a quick note, where is everyone buying DME in 25kg sizes?? I have checked online prices of three different stores in Sydney, cheapest I can find is $24.50 for 3kg...

 

[Jase71]

Mate, $2 a litre is a good point of arguement isnt it ? How much does she spend on hair care Word of advice, That arguement works much better if you shave your head first :lol:

Loving this thread, Pollux for starting it & others for the invaluable experience shared. While theres a shitload of info out there already, it's good to have it broken down for the amateurs. I'll have enough in the pantry by tomorrow to create something awesome, even if its a kit/extract hybrid.

In the larder is: 100g cascade pellets, 100g saaz, 100g fuggles, one can liquid caramalt, one can unhopped liquid wheat malt, a kilo of cracked crystal grain, a couple of kilos dextrose, some maltodextrin that seems to be what I'll not bother buying again, and a newly found local coles that has a huge range (15-20) of kits, and a handy supply of LDME if I need some in a hurry.

Needless to say, brew number three is going to get very interesting............

 

[Weizguy]

I figure if I buy wool on my way to the post office to collect my supplies from the HBS, then I MIGHT be able to get away with it...

Or...

"Honey, this is just more proof I need to get into AG"

EDIT: Just a quick note, where is everyone buying DME in 25kg sizes?? I have checked online prices of three different stores in Sydney, cheapest I can find is $24.50 for 3kg...

Tune in with your lhbs, and ask there, or send 'em an email. Bintani DME comes in 25kg sacks (think of a concrete bag) and Muntons comes in a 25kg box (with double plastic bag inside).

The last time I got a price, before the last few dollar drops and shortages, the Muntons box was about $130 per box. Would be a fair bit more now, but still cheaper in bulk.

You can make a great APA, Arrogant ******* or IIPA with DME and the right hops/yeast.

 

[Pollux]

Main point of argument with the missus will be "But you drank the cheaper stuff you made, why can't you keep drinking it??"

Still cheaper than $15 a 6pk at the local bottle-o though

Might continue with the Real Ale idea for now (I have 3 sitting in my big plastic box of goodies) and work on finding me some cheap LDME...