Using a secondary fermentor or just filter from the primary?

[bigmacca]

Hey Everyone,

First AG brew is done been in the fermentor for 7 days with the SG remaining steady and just dropped the fridge to cold crush.
Now I'm unsure of what to do next. Should I rack into a secondary for a few more weeks or just leave in the primary and filter in a week or two?

Second question, whats the best way to rack from one fermentor to the other? I don't have a syphon, is it worth buying one?

Cheers
Macca

 

[philmud]

Just leave it in the primary - racking to another vessel is an oxidization/infection point, so don't do it unless you have a good reason, like you want it to spend some time on fruit, or you plan to leave it for an extended period of time.
If you DO transfer it to a secondary fermenter, you want avoid oxidization, so the transfer needs to occur with minimal turbulence. I think a siphon is good for this purpose and relatively cheap too. Another option is to run a hose from your primary tap to your secondary vessel. In both instances make sure the hose is long enough so your brew can run out onto the bottom of the fermenter.

 

[Yob]

When racking, I use the tap to tap method, one FV higher than the the other and connect the taps, this allows you to to have a lid on the whole time and even purge the head space if you want, and as said above though, only for a good reason, not generally done as just a normal matter of process.

 

[spog]

I cut about 50 mm of the end of bottling wand jammed it into the end of a length of a similar diameter food grade hose .
This is then inserted into the outlet of the fermentor the end of the hose lays on the bottom of the other vessel and then transfer.
One vessel higher than the other of course,works well with bulk priming and no splashing.
But maintain your cleaning sanitizing routine. ..cheers...spog

 

[GrumpyPaul]

I know that there are some pretty strong views about the risks associated with using a secondary.

FWIW - I almost always rack to secondary and have never had any issues.

Sanitation/sterilising is just as important as at any other time in your brewing.

I fill my second fermenter with perc solution to the brim and let it soak for about half an hour or so with my transfer hose in it.
I drain and rinse it thoroughly
Until I ran out of no rinse santiser recently I would also mix up about 5 litres in the fermenter and do the hokey pokey with it ( shake it all about)

Primary is on the bench with hose attached to the tap.
The hose is long enough to reach the bottom of the secondary and curl around the bottom so not only to ensure no splashing but it gets a little bit of whirlpool action happening to mix thorugh any clearing agent (I use gelatin) witout having to use a spoon to mix.

Another tip - I make sure aafter the hose is sterilised I dont touch any part that touch the beer in the secondary - ie grab the end that attaches to the tap only.

Coincidently I took this pic last night - this has been in the secondary 3 days and is nice and clear. Will be kegging it up later this week

 

[philmud]

GP, why do you use a secondary? I'm not against the idea, my understanding it that it DID used to be a matter of course for most brewers, but that improvements to yeast meant that in general the benefits were outweighed by the risks. Obviously though they can be significantly mitigated with fastidious sanitizing processes. I'm curious about how you find it improves your beer. Is it cleaner tasting? Clearer? I ask because I'd like to lift my beers a bit and have been considering an extended primary (4 weeks). Currently I ferment for a week and (assuming FG reached) I CC for a further week.

 

[GrumpyPaul]

I do it to try and improve the clarity.

I BIAB and I dont know much about 3v - but as I understand it in a traditional mash tun the grain bed acts as a filter of sorts and helps to clarify the wort.

I dont get the benefit of filtering though the grain bed with BIAB - I dont see that lifting and squeezing the bag does much for clarifying the wort.

Realistically though clarity doesnt seem to improve the taste - just makes it look prettier.

 

[verysupple]

GP, why do you use a secondary? I'm not against the idea, my understanding it that it DID used to be a matter of course for most brewers, but that improvements to yeast meant that in general the benefits were outweighed by the risks. Obviously though they can be significantly mitigated with fastidious sanitizing processes. I'm curious about how you find it improves your beer. Is it cleaner tasting? Clearer? I ask because I'd like to lift my beers a bit and have been considering an extended primary (4 weeks). Currently I ferment for a week and (assuming FG reached) I CC for a further week.

Prince Imperial, if you're going to CC I really wouldn't bother with a secondary because the CC will do a lot more for your clarity and a lot faster, although I'm in the camp of "only use a secondary if there's a really good reason to".

I do it to try and improve the clarity.

I BIAB and I dont know much about 3v - but as I understand it in a traditional mash tun the grain bed acts as a filter of sorts and helps to clarify the wort.

I dont get the benefit of filtering though the grain bed with BIAB - I dont see that lifting and squeezing the bag does much for clarifying the wort.

Realistically though clarity doesnt seem to improve the taste - just makes it look prettier.

Clarifying the wort before the boil doesn't really have much (if any) effect on the clarity of the final product. The boil itself has a much larger effect.

As more of a science-y guy and less of a magic-y guy, I need someone to explain to me how transferring beer from one container to another helps clarity. Is a secondary vessel different to any other? Does it have a magical ability to chill the beer to a lower temp without freezing it aiding the precipitation of particulate? Does it somehow locally magnify gravity making particulate precipitate faster? Does it 'turbo charge' the yeast to make it work faster and make up for the significantly lower number of cells present (relative to in primary) to take up unwanted compounds and speed up the conditioning process?

 

[GrumpyPaul]

I use magic gelatin....

I'm not a science-y guy so i cant explain it any better than moving it to secondary takes it off the yeast cake, chucking some gelatin in helps the cloudy stuff settle to the bottom.

I know it isnt the justifiction or explanation you were hoping for.

Oh and one other really important factor is I wear a cloak and top hat when brewing and always say "Abra -ca -dabra" when I transfer to the secondary.

 

[brewbienewbie]

My BIAB brews used to be hella sediment-y till I added a sparge step (bucket with holes in the bottom, **** yeah) and started giving them a week or two in secondary before bottling. Unfortunately I started doing both of these at the same time, so I can't really judge the relative effectiveness of each. Racking to secondary lets me put another brew on the yeast cake in primary though, which means I can really pump the brews out when the weather's good.

 

[verysupple]

I use magic gelatin....

I'm not a science-y guy so i cant explain it any better than moving it to secondary takes it off the yeast cake, chucking some gelatin in helps the cloudy stuff settle to the bottom.

I know it isnt the justifiction or explanation you were hoping for.

Oh and one other really important factor is I wear a cloak and top hat when brewing and always say "Abra -ca -dabra" when I transfer to the secondary.

Oh I see. Magic gelatin only works in a secondary fermentor, as opposed to regular gelatin that works in any vessel.

Racking to secondary lets me put another brew on the yeast cake in primary though, which means I can really pump the brews out when the weather's good.

That's a good point. You can't easily reuse yeast without getting the beer off it first, unless you have a conical FV and use the bottom port. But if you're only racking to get at the yeast cake, and still want that batch to condition quickly, shouldn't you take some yeast with it over into the secondary? It'll still settle out and clear just as quickly but there will be more yeast to do the job of conditioning. You really shouldn't be using a whole cake for the next batch anyway (unless it's a massive beer) so leaving the whole cake behind isn't necessary.

 

[GrumpyPaul]

Oh I see. Magic gelatin only works in a secondary fermentor, as opposed to regular gelatin that works in any vessel.

Please dont take my advice out of context....

Magic gelatin works in any vessel but only if you are wearing a cloak and top hat and say the magic word :lol:

 

[menoetes]

I use secondary ferm too and like GrumpyPaul I am fastidious about sanitation and haven't had any trouble with the process so far. I use the tap to tap method of siphoning the beer from one to the other and the main reason I go to all this trouble is to add finings to my brew.

I bottle my beer so I think finings are pretty important so after two weeks in primary I drop the beer temp below 10'c and rack it into the secondary where I have the finings waiting (dissolved in about 250ml of hot water). After a few more days of cold crashing i rack it one more time into my bottling bucket with the priming sugar and bottle. My beer is crystal clear with little sediment in my bottles.

That's my reasons for 2ndary fermentation anyway, if anyone knows a better way of doing it, I am open to suggestions.

 

[verysupple]

Please dont take my advice out of context....

Magic gelatin works in any vessel but only if you are wearing a cloak and top hat and say the magic word :lol:

Right, gotcha. Homebrew shops should bundle cheap no-name brand gelatin with cloaks and top hats (is Ross following this?). It'd save everyone trips to multiple stores to get it all. Are there any other magic words I should know about? I mean, if "abra-ca-dabra" works for clarifying, is there one for instant conditioning? I'm sick of waiting weeks and weeks after bottling.

PS Sorry to the OP for taking this way OT.

 

[Bribie G]

There seems to be some confusion arising here between the two largely unrelated issues - clarity of wort in the kettle and clarity of beer in the glass. I BIAB, no longer use a secondary vessel - I keg out of primary - and I don't filter.

Does me



However, back to the OP, if I were to filter, I'd probably resume cold conditioning in a second vessel (I used to use willow jerry cans) in order to present the clearest beer possible to the filter, to avoid clogging or slowing of the process. Adding gelatine to the cold conditioning beer then Polyclar a couple of days later would generally produce almost bright beer to put through the filter for a final polish.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I have tried both methods, but I now lean towards secondary, it will clear without cold crashing and to me does make an improvement to the to the taste.
I have also read the same articles as Prince Imperial has read about the yeast being of better quality and there is no need to use a secondary but I like to try everything for myself, not just to rely on what I have read.
It is a debatable subject and it has been discussed many times before, and it comes down to what the brewer is happy with.

 

[mckenry]

All done in primary. Ferment, CC, gelatin.

 

[menoetes]

Mckenry, how to you add your gelatin if not in a secondary vessel? Surely mixing it into a primary is as risky as using secondary?

 

[marksy]

Depends if I`m kegging or bottling.

Kegging, I treat the keg as secondary and leave the kegs under the house for 2 weeks before chill and gas em.

Bottles, I never use to rack to secondary, then I tired it one day, I found it helped make my beer taste less home brewy and it means I dont have to bottle the beer at the end of fermentation, as sometimes I cant get to bottling asap. I just go out of the primary tap, and straight through the air lock (take the grommet out) Racking takes no time and be sure to get every last drop. Also remember to make sure the tap on the secondary is closed. You only make that mistake once.

The main things as mentioned before with either kegging or bottling is to sanitize and minimize introducing oxygen into the beer, this also applies to bulk priming.


marksy

 

[fletcher]

clarity of beer for me is always touch and go as i bottle. so the secondary ferment for me is done in bottle when carbonating, and this ALWAYS leaves yeast sediment. no matter what yeast. the only time i can make my beer clear is when it's being decanted and even then slowly, after it's been in the fridge for X days. the first pour is CRYSTAL clear, and i only CC in primary. no finings or gelatin etc.