Using A Kettle Element....covering Wires Etc

[TidalPete]

This is my death bucket, it's a bunnings 'fermenter' and a $8 crazy clark kettle element.

It'll get from 20 to the boil within 60 minutes, insulation will help. I just use it for strike and sparge.

kram,

I wouldn't worry too much if I were you. My HE has the same setup although the element is not out of a kettle.
All you need to do is cover those wires & connectors up to the hilt with shrink tube (I used two layers).
I also found that the cover of a normal 10 amp socket fitted over the round external plastic nut fits like a glove on mine. Not sure by the pic, but with a little hacksawing & reshaping perhaps you can do the same?
All this got passed by the sparky who checked my work. If I remember I'll post you a pic in the morning.
Hope this helps?

TP :beer:

 

[LethalCorpse]

Was expecting one of these posts, I like living on the edge... of death. <sarcasm

That is the kettle cord, it was a cordless kettle. So I stretched the lugs over to fit, they're on tight. The cord actually doesn't even heat up as much as my main kettle which is an old copper boiler with a 15amp cord.

I've got plenty of experience with stupid electrical work so i'm not worried. I'll be getting an RCD in the near future and i'll be fixing it up one day.

I wouldn't recommend this to anyone unless they are confident and know what they're doing.

You're obviously confident, but it's entirely clear you've got no idea what you're doing. No insulation, no strain relief, "stretched" and hence poorly contacting and potentially weak connections, excessive bare inner insulation, twisted conductors (they should all go on straight without braiding), no thermal protection (the thermal fuse is floating free), no overcurrent protection, did I mention no insulation? I mean, theres NO BLOODY INSULATION!!! These are just the obvious ones, and I'm not even a sparky - I'm sure someone versed in AS3000 could give you a complete listing of the wiring rules your bucket of death contravenes. If you've got plenty of experience with wiring like this, that makes you a lucky idiot, but still an idiot. If you want to live dangerously, go right ahead, but don't post it here for others to potentially follow.

 

[Rossy]

You will find that a standard Appliance plug will fit onto the posts, look around home I'm sure that you will have at least one spare
or just buy one as one day its going to bite!!! and it probably wont be you!!

 

[yardy]

Hi Yardy,

When you finally get over here for a brewday you will see mine in operation. Saturday 21st is the next brewday, fancy coming?
36 lt @ 20 up to 74 in about 70 minutes, my HLT is insulated.

Cheers
Andrew

Gday Andrew,

I'm not avoiding you mate, bloody work gets in the way of my hobby, speaking of which i'm starting a 6 week shut on wednesday but if the roster falls that i'm not working on the 21st i'll be there with bells

i want to get away from gas fired to elec so a copy of yours is on the cards, we'll take a few measurements for that brewstand while we're at it

Cheers
Yardy

 

[TidalPete]

kram,

I wouldn't worry too much if I were you. My HE has the same setup although the element is not out of a kettle.
All you need to do is cover those wires & connectors up to the hilt with shrink tube (I used two layers).
I also found that the cover of a normal 10 amp socket fitted over the round external plastic nut fits like a glove on mine. Not sure by the pic, but with a little hacksawing & reshaping perhaps you can do the same?
All this got passed by the sparky who checked my work. If I remember I'll post you a pic in the morning.
Hope this helps?

TP :beer:

kram,




Just remembered to take that snap. Sorry if it is not too clear at night but I think you get the drift?

TP :beer:

 

[kram]

You're obviously confident, but it's entirely clear you've got no idea what you're doing. No insulation, no strain relief, "stretched" and hence poorly contacting and potentially weak connections, excessive bare inner insulation, twisted conductors (they should all go on straight without braiding), no thermal protection (the thermal fuse is floating free), no overcurrent protection, did I mention no insulation? I mean, theres NO BLOODY INSULATION!!! These are just the obvious ones, and I'm not even a sparky - I'm sure someone versed in AS3000 could give you a complete listing of the wiring rules your bucket of death contravenes. If you've got plenty of experience with wiring like this, that makes you a lucky idiot, but still an idiot. If you want to live dangerously, go right ahead, but don't post it here for others to potentially follow.

No worries dude, not going to reply to all your concerns with what i'm doing. I know things should be hooked up safer and will be doing so in the future. FYI i've attached a photo of the original kettle which got the ol' tick of approval from N11013 and AU8796. Only differing "insulation" is between the lugs at their point of connection. I don't expect people on this site to be a lemming and drop in to the pool of lava.

Also cheers TP, got the gist from your original post and will certainly be rectifying mine in the near future.

 

[LethalCorpse]

You mean the kettle got electrical safety compliance certificates, and those were the approval numbers (as opposed to a body or standard governing such approvals, which you seem to think they are)? They became void the instant you modified it in any way, and are particularly irrelevant here in that you've modified it to become a thing which is inherently extremely dangerous. The kettle got those approvals because it met all of the requirements I noted yours as missing, as well as many more. Note the strain relief lugs, for example. The insulation is in the fact that, in order to take that photograph, you had to remove a number of screws holding an external housing in place. This housing ordinarily insulates the user from live contacts. You have no such housing and no such approval numbers. Your assurance that you'll fix it at some point in the future is a pointless one. "I'll get my brakes fixed at some point". "I'll put the battery back in that smoke alarm one day". "I'll shore up that balcony on the cliff side of the house eventually". Maybe you'll fix it before it kills someone. Maybe you won't. But the fact that you think it's satisfactory to live with in the meantime means I'm going to call you an idiot every time you make mention of it. Did I do that yet? Oh, sorry.
You're an idiot!

 

[yardy]

That's a bit harsh LC.

 

[LethalCorpse]

So's electricity.

 

[reVoxAHB]

Here's my enclosure:





Waterproof enclosure with seals. Adhered to kettle using high temp (rated to 150C) wet area silicone. Sealed both inside and out. Cable is 15A to 2400W hot water heater element. 15A cable gland.

Only mistake I made was enclosure is mounted flush to bottom of kettle, which puts the gland lower than the kettle itself. It's fine, as it sits off the back of my brewstand, but if I had to do it again, I would shoot the cable out the back or position enclosure higher.


reVox

 

[idzy]

I'm partly sorry for resurrecting this thread, but feel I'm partly doing a community service. Geez this is funny! and also very not... :unsure: :blink:

 

[pat_00]

I got a zap 2 years ago from a bedside lamp and my left arm up to the elbow is still 90% numb. This thread scares the bejesus out of me.

 

[LethalCorpse]

Wonder if he ever "fixed" it. Wonder if he got a belt off it, or worse.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

10 amps of goodness for the soul

 

[idzy]

He hasn't been active since Sep 20 2011 01:07 PM - hope he is okay.

 

[LethalCorpse]

Hmm...probably should have written a reply to "it's not the voltage that kills you, it's the current" back in the day.

A 230v circuit with a 1A fuse will be just as lethal as one with a 10A fuse. Currents over 30mA through the heart can be lethal. Your body's resistance will vary greatly depending on which parts of the body are attached to the circuit, whether your skin is wet etc. But if you've got active in one hand, neutral in the other and a combined resistance of 2.3kOhms or less (quite likely), then you'll have over 100mA passing through you. More than enough to cause vfib, and death. Your 10A breaker will watch with amusement, as would a 150mA fuse. Also your RCD will not have a problem with it, because all the current is active to neutral, not earth.

Tldr, lethal currents are much lower than you think, and the current that flows is determined by the voltage and resistance, not the rating of the fuse or socket.

 

[adryargument]

Bah.

Mine looks similiar to Krams, however i use two elements and proper kettle cords...
I think everyone is a bit too worked up on standards and electrical safety.

Whats more dangerous?
#1 Having exposed wires and a brewer who is concious about them brewing carefully?
#2 Having sealed wires with an idiot splashing water everywhere believing that their box is watertight?

More often than not #2 will kill themselves first as its probably a homejob they have fucked up.

Remember that you actually need a path to earth through yourself to be properly fried. My brewery is grounded with a 3ft deep grounding rod, connected to the frame and kettles. Death is a little concern as it has easier ways to travel then through a body that has an exceedingly high alcohol content.

 

[Camo6]

Surely you jest?

You left out:

#3 - Having sealed wires and a brewer who is conscious about brewing carefully (as he doesn't want to risk voiding his life insurance and leaving his wife and kids destitute because he couldn't be arsed spending an extra 10mins and $10 idiot-proofing his illegal electrical work)?

But you're right. Electrical safety and standards are overrated. :blink:

 

[adryargument]

Surely you jest?

No, you still need an active current from the wires, to your body, to ground.
That is extremely difficult in a brewing situation without the current already being grounded beforehand / touching the wires directly yourself.

I have yet to live in a house / experience a situation where an RCD is not installed by law / standard.

A shocks a shock. But its a long way from death before the RCD kicks in.

I installed a grounding rod on my brewery because it *was* live. due to residual current leakage from the kettle elements.
I would experience a gentle tingle / zap every time i touched the water / malt / liquid whatever.
(The kettle elements are that poor that they actually leak current... Do any of us care?)

If your actually that serious about electrical safety.
Are your stirplates certified?
Are your brewery fridge controllers certified?
Are your PID Herms controllers certified?

Look at the Braumiser control board that nearly every dog and their owner on this board uses (myself included). Mine recently started playing up so i gave it to a certified electrician. He called it a death box and fixed it as best as possible.
One of his concerns was that the 12v wiring on the circuitry runs about 1mm from the 240v wiring. Apparently thats a no-no?

Yet none of us seem to care.

We all seem to laugh and joke at exposed wires, but in reality none of our brewery's would pass a proper cert. So i guess its ignorance at best?

Kind of like roofers expected to wear a harness and rope at about 2m and higher... How many of them do?
Rules and standards are created to allow the retarded to live. Then we complain about over population.

 

[StalkingWilbur]

Great argument. Lets apply it to other situations.

What's more dangerous

#1: a driver with a BAC of 0.20 driving with extreme caution because he knows he's over the limit

Or

#2: a driver who's only had two standard drinks and isn't driving with extreme caution because he knows he isn't over the limit