Users Of The "no Chiller Method"

[Batz]

That'll do me Andrew I know your every bit as critical of you brews as I am of mine.


Batz

 

[Pumpy]

I confess , I am a user !!!! .......................Of the No Chiller method


Pumpy

Me also, todays effort, not as pushed-in as yours.

Nice One Bindi , I had to put Calamine lotion on my knees it was so hot , they tremble a bit now :blink:

Pumpy

 

[bigfridge]

Some interesting articles here

http://www.asbcnet.org/journal/abstracts/1996/0103-03a.htm

and here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...p;dopt=Abstract

Anyone have access to them? I would be very interested to read them if you do.

cheers

Darren

Darren,

The first article "Influence of growth medium on thermal resistance of Pediococcus sp. NRRL B-2354 (formerly Micrococcus freudenreichii) in liquid foods" reports on "the effect of growth medium on the thermal D value of this organism in skim milk, whole liquid egg, 10% glucose solution, pineapple juice, apple juice, tomato juice, and water at 60 degrees C".

Can't see any reference to beer or wort so not to interested in chasing it up.

For "Heat Resistance of Bacteria in Alcohol-Free Beer" Just hit the "VIEW ARTICLE" link.

David

 

[Mr Bond]

I am also interested to know why U need to increase your post count, with irrelevant info that would best be sent by pm (Peruvian spit reply).

Seth out

Post count is directly related to penis size..! h34r:

And or EGO size :excl:

Just another superfluous post/observation ,to increase my count HA:lol: HA :lol: HA

 

[yardy]

sooooo, having read the first few pages am i right in saying that i transfer the hot wort straight to an iodophored (sp) cube and all will be good ?


what about the trapped air ?



this is such a long topic so i'm sorry if i lost something along the way.

cheers


yardy

 

[pint of lager]

Yardy, there are two threads on the no chill method.

One covers the nuts and bolts methodology.

The thread you are currently reading is for people who have tried the method and their good and bad results. If you think this thread is long, you should have seen it before it was split up.

Dig up the original no chill thread, it discusses how. Yes, it is also long, but the information is great and well worthwhile reading the whole lot. If you are on dial up and the pages are taking ages to load, go to your personal settings, turn off avatars and images in posts as well as in signatures.

 

[berazafi]

Yardy, there are two threads on the no chill method.

One covers the nuts and bolts methodology.

The thread you are currently reading is for people who have tried the method and their good and bad results. If you think this thread is long, you should have seen it before it was split up.

Dig up the original no chill thread, it discusses how. Yes, it is also long, but the information is great and well worthwhile reading the whole lot. If you are on dial up and the pages are taking ages to load, go to your personal settings, turn off avatars and images in posts as well as in signatures.

Or at the bottom of everypage is a lo-fi version (click on it)

 

[yardy]

a bit of light reading on the way then :blink:



cheers


yard

 

[Darren]

Some interesting articles here

http://www.asbcnet.org/journal/abstracts/1996/0103-03a.htm

and here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...p;dopt=Abstract

Anyone have access to them? I would be very interested to read them if you do.

cheers

Darren

Darren,

The first article "Influence of growth medium on thermal resistance of Pediococcus sp. NRRL B-2354 (formerly Micrococcus freudenreichii) in liquid foods" reports on "the effect of growth medium on the thermal D value of this organism in skim milk, whole liquid egg, 10% glucose solution, pineapple juice, apple juice, tomato juice, and water at 60 degrees C".

Can't see any reference to beer or wort so not to interested in chasing it up.



For "Heat Resistance of Bacteria in Alcohol-Free Beer" Just hit the "VIEW ARTICLE" link.

David

HI David, Thanks. Why didn't it work first time for me?

Certainly an interesting read and I certainly noted the advice to the brewing industry about serving/storing unfermented beer.

All the Darren knockers should spend a few minutes on this paper.

BTW, Did you see 10% glucose solution? In a roundabout way that is the sugar content of un-fermented beer! If you can get that article I would be interested to glance over that one too.


cheers

Darren

 

[Bobby]

get over it darren. people like myself use this method and dont have a problem.
we understand there is a risk. if i get an infection it doesnt bother me as i enjoy brewing just as much as i enjoy drinking. that said i have left some unfermented wort for 3 weeks and havent had a problem.
your veiwpoint and opinion is well established and i doubt there is anyone that doesnt know your opinion on the matter.

you arent a user of this method, so why do you continue to post on this thread?
PM me your grievances and save everybody else from the monotony.

 

[bigfridge]

Certainly an interesting read and I certainly noted the advice to the brewing industry about serving/storing unfermented beer.

All the Darren knockers should spend a few minutes on this paper.

BTW, Did you see 10% glucose solution? In a roundabout way that is the sugar content of un-fermented beer! If you can get that article I would be interested to glance over that one too.

Daren,

Sorry but I won't bother to get you a copy of the article as I fear that it would be a waste of all our time.

It is very brave of you to suggest that your detractors read these scientific studies because they cut down your selective arguments. One line from the conclusion says it all:

"Heat killing experiements cannot be conducted at 60 C because the cells die too quickly to be sampled and enumerated". This means that it takes so little time at 60 C to kill the bugs under investigation that they are all dead by the time they can count them. Sounds good enough for me.

The "advice to the brewing industry about serving/storing unfermented beer" concerns unpasturised beer - which is not what we are talking about here. The actual wording talking about the increase growth of the bugs in alcohol free beer is "Therefore industry is cautioned about filtration of alcohol-free beers (AFB) to achieve microbial stability, and about possible marketing of UNPASTURISED draught AFB".

Sorry, but this would appear to end the discussion ...... at least for me. Plenty of people are happy with this method. If you aren't then please don't feel compelled to use it.

Good Brewing (and milking)

David

 

[stephen]

Bigfridge

Excelent response!

Sometimes, we professionals in any area, often cringe when we see others trying to do things that are not 'kosher' to our area of expertise. When we learn our area of expertise we are taught the clinical approach: The exact science! There is no room for error!

When, we as amatuer brewers, approach the subject - there is no exact science or expertise, we just give it a go as best of our knowledge and expertise.

There are people out there who can break down the enzymatic process down to the molecule and explain what happens to the molecule. There are those that can explain what happens when paint dries, or how concrete will set.

At the end of the day, do we really care how paint dries or how concrete sets? If this is the level you want to go then get your degree. If not brew to your hearts content.

Rant over

Steve

 

[Samwise Gamgee]

I confess , I am a user !!!! .......................Of the No Chiller method


Pumpy

Me also, todays effort, not as pushed-in as yours.

Nice One Bindi , I had to put Calamine lotion on my knees it was so hot , they tremble a bit now :blink:

Pumpy

I did my first no-chill method the other week, haven't chucked it in a fermenter yet though.

I know this might seem like blasphamy to some, but i was about 1.5L short of filling the cube completely, so in went 1.5L boiling water! h34r:

I had quite a high evaporation rate, so I don't think it will cause to many drama's to the SG.

Will report back when I ferment it, as I think it will be in the cube for possibly 4 odd weeks.

 

[bigfridge]

There are people out there who can break down the enzymatic process down to the molecule and explain what happens to the molecule. There are those that can explain what happens when paint dries, or how concrete will set.

At the end of the day, do we really care how paint dries or how concrete sets? If this is the level you want to go then get your degree. If not brew to your hearts content.

Steve,

Fully agree with you mate.

One of the most highly regarded brewing scientists is DeClerk. His 2 volume text was written in the 40's but is still used in brewing schools around the world. Because it was before the time of electron microsocpes and DNA profiling there are many times when he writes that "we don't know why this happens, but over many trials we have found that ....". Experience is all you need to make great beer.

In this current debate, many many people have reported thousands of litres of wort has been stored in cubes with no ill effect. Around the world many breweries are packaging sterile wort kits. In fact every tin of extract is packed using the 'no-chill method'.

In all this time we have had only one report of a problem, and this is suspected to be due to incomplete heating of the cube interior. Sounds pretty conclusive to me.

When we package the NNL Brewery Wort packs we fill them to the required capacity and then squeeze as much of the air out as possible before screwing on the lid. Any remaining air is mainly steam and will be sterilised by the heat. They are then laid on their 'front' so that the handle and lid are fully immersed to get as hot as possible. They stay like this for 15-30 mins while the batch is being filled and after hosing off any spillage they are returned to the upright position for loading. The lids are then tightened with a special spanner as we have found that some can loosen on cooling. Perhaps this happened with yours, allowing bugs to be sucked in before the pressure buildup caused it to seal again.

We have not re-used any cubes for sale, but have re-used some for 'internal quality control' (just in case the tax department is listening). I have a 20litre cube that is on its 4th or 5th batch. After emptying, I make sure that these cubes get a though hose out to remove all traces of wort. I also unscrew the tap bung to ensure that nothing is hiding in there.

Works for me ......

David

 

[user 384]

Well thanks for that feedback MAH,I will try my Pils "no chill" next time.
I am always a bit paranoid when I do my pilsners,I am very critical of this style of beer much more so than a lager.

Batz

Hi Batz

It was a very straight forward German Pilsner. 95% Weyermann Pils and 5% Carapils. 100% Hallertau Hersbrucker, with 60, 30, 15 and 0 additions. Fermented with 34/70. Only real problem was when I took it out of the fermenting fridge after 2 weeks to raise the temperature, it never got above 14c with the cold weather we were having.

Last night I tried some. It has only been in the keg for a week and was fairly cloudy as it was the first pour, but the flavour was spot on. Nice malt flavour, good crisp bitterness, with a pleasant hop flavour. The hop aroma is a bit subdued and it is a bit too full bodied, neither of which I would consider an effect of the no-chiller method. The body is probably a result of using 34/70 which isn't the most attenuative of yeasts and the low hop aroma is something that always happens with my brews, I just cant get that big loral hop nose that other beers seem to have. In terms of a cooked corn or other vegetable like flavours from DMS, there are none.

Cheers
MAH

 

[sinkas]

Not sure if this has been covered, I tried reading all 18 pages, but may have missed it.
I made an IPA with the NCM, and stupidly, stirred the settled break back into the clear wort. I decided to jsut throw the wholelot into the fermenter, adn worry about it later.
So the beer is now down to 1010, from 1072, ( US 56 did this in just a week)
I am planning to siphon the wort off the break and the hop debris, into a bottling bucket, my question is, should I crash cool the beer, take it down to about 1 degree, to assist in getting it off the break and hops?

Cheers

Case

 

[T.D.]

In my experience it makes no difference whether you pour the break material into the fermenter or not. Its just particles in suspension - they settle out and when you rack to secondary or a keg they will be left, along with the yeast cake, at the bottom of the fermenter. For me, it has always settled out, resulting in a beer that is at least as clear (if not clearer) than the beers I used to make using an immersion chiller.

 

[Hogan]

Sinkas

There have been a number of posts that suggest the inclusion of the break into the fermentor will not make any difference to the finished product.

In fact in the USA they leave the break in on purpose.

The only reason why I would remove it prior to commencement of the primary would be to save having to separate a big heap of the break from the yeast slurry when I want to wash and save my yeast prior to racking to secondary.


Cheers, Hogan.

 

[MHB]

Ok I had my concerns about this method, I still have a few reservations, but the reports here and the success of Fresh Wort packs has convinced me that this is a valid method.

There are now 3 Fresh Wort makers just on the east coast, I think we will see this number grow. As a retailer I expect to see Fresh Wort packs become an integral and growing part of home brew retail.

The unexpected spin of is that people brewing Fresh Worts is leading to a growth of interest in AG brewing.

Funny how things come full circle, I am just old enough to remember the original Coopers bag in box kits, thats early 70s, they were selling Fresh Wort kits in supermarkets over 30 years ago.

No-Chiller Method Rules.

MHB

 

[Bobby]

i tip pretty much all of the trub into the Fresh wort container. All of that then goes into the fermenter.
i have no problems with it at all.