Users Of The "no Chiller Method"

[Darren]

Hi David,

Having worked in a lab for 20 years means I know that what you just wrote is only half correct. As you are obviously aware milk is pasteurised and will spoil within a couple of days of opening. Milk doesn't go into second hand containers for that reason. Milk is nutrient rich, just like wort.

Milk is also only held at 72C for 15 seconds. When someone starts trying to HTST pasteurise their wort and store it for a while, then I'll worry.

Within a couple days of opening, my cubes of botulism are happily fermenting away. With yeast. Non-wild yeast.

Kai, I think we are talking about why someones fermenter blew up like a balloon without addition of yeast. Obviously it is the result of spoilage organisms.

Its when they start putting milk in second hand plastic containers you should worry about.

cheers

Darren

Botulism? who knows, apparently the toxin is tasteless. Maybe you are volunteering to do a trial?

 

[user 384]

All winter I've cast aside my chiller and used the no chill method, including a Pilsner. With the cold nights, by the next day the wort is cool enough for pitching. For me the advantage has been taking a litre or so of the wort, and placing this in a sanitised glass flagon. I pitch my yeast into this and this provides a nice healthy active starter made from the same wort I intend to ferment. I pitch the whole lot the day after brewing.

The pilsner is lagering at the moment, but from what I have tasted, it's as clean and crisp as any other pilsner I've made.

When the weather heats up, and in particular at the height of summer, this method will not be possible for me. Even the night time temperatures will be above ale pitching temps, so it will be back to the CFC and then knocking the final few degrees down in the fermenting fridge.

I've made about 8 beers this way with no perceptable ill effects. I've even stopped casting out the hot wort to a cube, I just cast out hot straight to the fermenter. Next day pitch the yeast, then when it's finished fermenting rack into a keg. Nice and simple with less fuss. This is what I did with an American Amber Ale that went down a treat at a recent gatrhering of fellow AGers. Some top quality brewers such as TDA, Chiller, Pedro and Jayse all seemed to like it and an Alt that I made the no-chiller way.

Cheers
MAH

 

[Darren]

MAH,

I have no doubt that it works especially in winter (albeit CF chilling in winter is far more efficient and takes less time). So long as you pitch the next day I can't see why there would be a problem. Give it a couple of days at a stretch. After all, I have done a very similar thing for years with lagers, in that I put them in the fridge at 25 or so. Allow to cool overnight, then pitch the yeast. Not a problem.

The problem is storage of unfermented wort for extended times in dirty containers.


cheers

Darren

 

[AndrewQLD]

-_- zzzzzzzzzzzzz.........
this thread is starting to rehash what was said in the original "no chiller" thread, can we get back on track please before I really nod off.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Darren]

Ah, but Andrew,

It should always be re-hashed for the newer bretheren amongst us that that no-chill and storage may save you 15 minutes on the day but will likely result in a dumped batch.

Me, I prefer to chill (after all it is only an extra 15 mins) and then pitch. Then I know next time I look at the beer it will be beer.

Do you have any constructive input into the subject? If not then just nod off!!


cheers

Darren

 

[Bobby]

darren have you said anything you havent a dozen or so times before?
we all know your position on this topic.
what's that saying about a dead horse?

 

[AndrewQLD]

Ah, but Andrew,

It should always be re-hashed for the newer bretheren amongst us that that no-chill and storage may save you 15 minutes on the day but will likely result in a dumped batch.

I agree totally Darren which is why you should direct new comers to the original thread No Chiller Method instead of repeating the same arguments everytime the subject comes up.
I know and respect your opinions on this subject but just get a little tired of the repetition.

Cheers
Andrew (nodding off to sleep)

 

[bindi]

I confess , I am a user !!!! .......................Of the No Chiller method


Pumpy

Me also, todays effort, not as pushed-in as yours.

 

[Kai]

Hi David,

Having worked in a lab for 20 years means I know that what you just wrote is only half correct. As you are obviously aware milk is pasteurised and will spoil within a couple of days of opening. Milk doesn't go into second hand containers for that reason. Milk is nutrient rich, just like wort.

Milk is also only held at 72C for 15 seconds. When someone starts trying to HTST pasteurise their wort and store it for a while, then I'll worry.

Within a couple days of opening, my cubes of botulism are happily fermenting away. With yeast. Non-wild yeast.

Kai, I think we are talking about why someones fermenter blew up like a balloon without addition of yeast. Obviously it is the result of spoilage organisms.

Its when they start putting milk in second hand plastic containers you should worry about.

cheers

Darren

Botulism? who knows, apparently the toxin is tasteless. Maybe you are volunteering to do a trial?

I did not see the relevance of a comparison to milk pasteurisation. Seth's beachball cube is in the same league as any other infection, in my opinion; just a slip up in the sanitation process.

The botulism comment was a light-hearted reference to some of your more interesting criticisms of this process

 

[Lukes]

I have done 6 brews that have had the "no chill method with all positive results all but one.. :angry:

The one was a wheat ale made back in the wheat fermenting months and I had more wort that could fit into my 25 liter cube so I half filled an 15 fresh wort container that has not been cleaned properly and after a few days the 7 or so liters blew up like what happened to Seth.
I opened the smaller one after a week of sitting on the shed floor @ 20 degrees and it was "wild" :blink:
The clean one with no headspace was fine and made a great brew.

So my user experience is clean and san the cube and then try to fill the cube as much as possible or break it down into smaller cubes or bottles.

Any extra wort now I bottle up and as outline already in previous posts use from starters.


BTW has anyone added hops to the cube and then the hot wort as in a flame out addition?

Luke

 

[KoNG]

Ah, but Andrew,

It should always be re-hashed for the newer bretheren amongst us that that no-chill and storage may save you 15 minutes on the day but will likely result in a dumped batch.

cheers

Darren

talk about round in circles.
this thread is about the people that use the method, several people have mentioned that they have done some 10 batches or more... none with infections as yet.... except for maybe weizguys (?)
so we have a result of dumped batches for most people around 0/10.

Run bretheren RUN...!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[berazafi]

I have done 6 brews that have had the "no chill method" with all positive results all but one.. :angry:

The one was a wheat ale made back in the wheat fermenting months and I had more wort that could fit into my 25 liter cube so I half filled an 15 fresh wort container that has not been cleaned properly and after a few days the 7 or so liters blew up like what happened to Seth.
I opened the smaller one after a week of sitting on the shed floor @ 20 degrees and it was "wild" :blink:
The clean one with no headspace was fine and made a great brew.

So my user experience is clean and san the cube and then try to fill the cube as much as possible or break it down into smaller cubes or bottles.

Any extra wort now I bottle up and as outline already in previous posts use from starters.


BTW has anyone added hops to the cube and then the hot wort as in a flame out addition?

Luke

I have and the result was alot more aroma than i would ussualy get with flameout additions

 

[KoNG]

BTW has anyone added hops to the cube and then the hot wort as in a flame out addition?

Luke

Luke, i have used that method a couple of times, although none are at drinking stage yet.
i like to call it LWH... you may call it that as well...

 

[AndrewQLD]

BTW has anyone added hops to the cube and then the hot wort as in a flame out addition?

Luke

Hi Lukes,
I have done several brews with the no chill method and a couple of bitters with the flame out addition (plugs) in the cube ( no infections), It gave a lovelly aroma that lasted till the end of the keg. The only problem I found was the tap on the cube can block easily if you transfer too quickly at the beginning. A part from that, the flame out addition works well in the cube.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Bobby]

BTW has anyone added hops to the cube and then the hot wort as in a flame out addition?

Luke

Hi Lukes,
I have done several brews with the no chill method and a couple of bitters with the flame out addition (plugs) in the cube ( no infections), It gave a lovelly aroma that lasted till the end of the keg. The only problem I found was the tap on the cube can block easily if you transfer too quickly at the beginning. A part from that, the flame out addition works well in the cube.

Cheers
Andrew

I found the exact same as Andrew. My tap clogged a couple time but the resulting beer was great.

 

[Lukes]

MMM got me thinking...
I have a few hops still from the bulk buy and I may up the "LWH"
I have a few old (retired) hop sock's I can put the leaf hops in to stop them floating around the cube.

So that's another pro for the method.

Luke

 

[Kai]

BTW has anyone added hops to the cube and then the hot wort as in a flame out addition?

Luke

Hi Lukes,
I have done several brews with the no chill method and a couple of bitters with the flame out addition (plugs) in the cube ( no infections), It gave a lovelly aroma that lasted till the end of the keg. The only problem I found was the tap on the cube can block easily if you transfer too quickly at the beginning. A part from that, the flame out addition works well in the cube.

Cheers
Andrew

I've done it a couple times too, but only because I forgot to put the finishing hops in the kettle at flameout.

 

[bindi]

UOTE(KoNG @ Jul 17 2006, 02:52 PM) *

i FWH alot/most of my beers, i like the results.!
i have also started LWH "last wort hopping" (i just made this term up.!?!?), but what i mean is, that using the "no chill" method, i add my flame out hops to the cube instead of the kettle. i dont have enough data on LWH as yet to post any significant results. (others may tho.)



LWH biggrin.gif I do the same, did it today, I tie the hops in a hop bag and use fishing line which I secure to the handle and when I squeese the air out of the cube I still get a good seal and makes it easy to pull out smile.gif later, the only time I had trouble getting the bag out was when I used Nelson Sauvin flowers, big swallon bag of flowers comming out of a small hole. biggrin.gif


This was posted last month on this subject I have done four brews since all LWH and the flavour is fantastic I am using long thin bags in the cubes for the hops.

 

[Batz]

All winter I've cast aside my chiller and used the no chill method, including a Pilsner.

The pilsner is lagering at the moment, but from what I have tasted, it's as clean and crisp as any other pilsner I've made.



Cheers
MAH

Well thanks for that feedback MAH,I will try my Pils "no chill" next time.
I am always a bit paranoid when I do my pilsners,I am very critical of this style of beer much more so than a lager.

Batz

 

[AndrewQLD]

Batz,
I have done a couple of Bo Pils using the no chiller method and have not been able to fault them. I agree with you about a pilsner being a beer that can show faults very easily, from colour, clarity, flavour to aroma, the faults stand out like a beacon. A good style to highlight any areas your brewing is not up to scratch in.

Cheers
Andrew