Triple batch BIAB in a 50l keggle?

[Don Runk]

Wondering if this has been done? with or without success?

Myself and 2 fellow brewers often do 57l batches and take a keg each. I'm moving to AG BIAB. I have a 50l keggle, chiller etc.

Alot of my reasearch has come up empty which leads me to believe there is a problem with my theory. (please prove me wrong)


We're after a 1.045OG 30IBU ale into the fermenter filled to 57l

Idea is to brew a BIAB 35l batch @ 1.072OG 49.5 IBU then top up after transfered to FV to 57l diluting to requred numbers.
I have run hop concentration numbers on the stronger wort / hop utilization.

recipe -
10.5k ale malt
1kg crystal 60

45g galaxy @60
20g galaxy @20

Brewmate tells me 47l is required, not sure if 11.5kg of grain will even fit in there. Can always use less and sparge while bag is hanging over kettle?


Any help or ideas greatly appreciated.

 

[Rowy]

If you constructed a bucket in bucket setup then you could use it to sparge with a dozen or so litres of water. That way you could reduce the amount of water in your mash.

 

[aaronpetersen]

If you do a sparge you should be OK.
Do a search for Maxi-BIAB, which contains a spreadsheet for doing exactly what you are talking about. Just remember that your efficiency will probably drop when doing a high-gravity mash.

 

[Don Runk]

Thanks heaps guys. checked it out. might be doing a mix of everything as a test.


And it looks like it's happening TONIGHT.


Aim is 11.5kg grain with 40L of strike mashed for 60-90 with mashout.

Expect to loose 11-12L upon pulling bag leaving 28L

Aim to sparge (with hot water service temp water as no second vessel) with around 10L to end up around 38L (unsure how sparging that much water with a bag that full will go just hanging on a skyhook)

Boil 60 ending somewhere around the 35L mark. Into FV and topped up to 57L...... At least that's the idea.



Will keep posed but PLEASE let me know if i'm crazy or any part of my plan is. Will be filling kettle shortly.

 

[Nick JD]

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/44264-20l-stovetop-all-grain-aussie-lager/

Numbers are the same divided by 3.

 

[Don Runk]

Oh man how did i miss that? what a d!ck. was searching for double/tripple batches.

thank you sir you have given me the confidence to fire up the burner!!

how did it turn out? (sorry really long thread there and i'm pushed for time right now)
and do you still do it or is it just a fun experiment?

 

[Don Runk]

in case anyone was watching -
rough notes follow -


ambient 15c
38l @13c put on burner 8:19
38l @73c 9:20pm mash in 10.5kg ale 1kg crystal
temp didnt drop had to cool by running 8l through chiller and adding back to reach 68
10:50 ended up 64c start ramp up to mash out
pull bag and sparge with 5l to end up with 38L
start boil burner 11:20 (took a while to get there)
boil finish 12:55 final volume = 32L Grv = 1.075
fill 57 sg 1.040 @19c after filling with 1l boiling (too much on plate chiller)


^ most of this is useless but just my brew nigh notes.

feel free to comment and critic. didn't reach my 1.045

 

[Rowy]

Looks like you made beer Don. Glad it worked out.

 

[431neb]

in case anyone was watching -

feel free to comment and critic. didn't reach my 1.045

I was watching with great interest Don. I have a 50 l keggle and some limited experience with BIAB but I know that I would like to punch out more beer for what is essentially the same amount of work.

I have an additional 50 litre keg that I haven't cut the top out of yet but double batches would be easy to sparge a large amount of additional water in a second keg. I would be looking to get about 40 litres of finished product into two corny kegs.

Does anyone have any experience with just how much water you can get away with in a 50 l keg without any silliness? I see you started with 40 l Don. I guess I could mash into 40 litres of strike and add sparge water during the boil as the volume decreases?

Food for thought. I'll have to hunt around a bit more. There must be a few threads on this topic buried in the archives.

Good one Don. You have spurred me into action. Maybe an electric second vessel? That might come in handy later.

 

[Nick JD]

I find that if you fill a kettle to 70-75% of its capacity (and don't apply a nutso amount of heat to it - just a reasonable amount) you can walk away and come back to see it at a rolling boil.

So around 37L in a 50L kettle.

But, if you're armed with a squirty bottle filled with cold water and vigilant, you could boil >40L ... but an eagle-eye needed.

 

[Nick JD]

Don, you did pretty well to hit 1.040.

What happened is you left the other 1.005 in the grain. It's a sparge thing, but TBH, extracting that last 1.010 (or more - there's lots left in the BIABag) is sometimes more effort than it's worth.

It's all about the sparging technique. But, I've found if you get too vigorous sparging in a BIAB situation you really increase the cloudyness of the wort - to a point where I find the extra 1.005 you gain in the sparge is lost to trub again into the fermenter.

A kg of LDME (or even a bit of sugar in the styles it's called for) can get that 1.005 back in an instant. Something to ponder - but I reckon with a bit more emphasis on your sparge, you'll hit 1.045 eventually.

 

[beerdrinkingbob]

I use nicks method in a 50 ltr kettle, 8.5 kg of grain and get 32 ltrs (2 x 16 ltr cubes) of 1.062 (70% into the fermentor), water it down to the style of beer you want!!

Mash in with 35ltrs and during the ramp to 72 I brim it with boiling water and then mash out, which is essential for an extra 4 points or so.

 

[Don Runk]

Thanks heaps guys.

Filling up i stopped at 38L because i just couldnt see how it was all going to fit and expected having to run some out while mashing in. Turns out 38L and 11.5kg of grain fills the kettle to within 20mm !!!

Then came the supprise that my temp didn't drop. As in maybe 1 degC. so the mash was sitting at 71C for a good 10mins before i gave in and chilled some through my plate chiller and added it back to come down to something reasonable. Not sure if this worth worrying about or not. next time i'll mash in at 1deg above target.

come time to pull the bag and the ******* wouldnt come out. really struggled with it for like 10mins. Probably have to make one more suited to the hole in the keggle. Then supprised me i only needed 5L sparge to get back to volume. And this i agree is where things went south. the water just ran down the side of the bag. Thinking of making a small shower head that goes inside the bag before lifting to help for future batches.

the rest of it all went off without a hitch. 38L is perfect when it comes to the hot break. still had 30mm up my sleeve.

think i may add ldme in future if it is all too hard but the aim of all this is to stop using it. we'll see.

 

[Nick JD]

I've found the best way (with efficiency as the primary goal) to sparge BIAB is to dump the whole grain bag into another vessel, open it, and sparge in much the same way as a brewer sparging a mash tun. The sparge cannot be done with the bag under any kind of compression. Must be loose.

And then kick back and wait. It takes time for the sparge water to mingle with the high gravity interstitial areas, dilute it and make it available for gravity to pull it out. All a sparge is essentially doing is providing an excess of liquid - more than the grain can hold, so you can get some of the sugars out. BIAB has the advantage that you can apply pressure to the sparge ... but be aware that by applying pressure you are removing a lot of material that will end up as trub.

Then when you raise the bag again, you get second runnings that have a high OG.

It's a good idea to use a refrac to measure your extracts at various parts of the process (and write them down) as a second sparge can be done as well.

Most important thing though for efficiency is that the grain is allowed to fully drain - and then the bag is squeezed hard, before the sparge. No point using sparge water to remove wort that could have come out with squeezing.

With enough pissing about, it's possible to get your kettle's volume of 1.050 into a fermenter. But as I mentioned before, your beer's quality begins to suffer.

 

[Bribie G]

Sparging is a lot of dicking around, but if you get a baby bath or something similar you can leave the first runnings in the Keggle. drop the bag into the bath and sparge it there and jug the second runnings back into the keggle. Ideally if you can move the keggle to one side and have the baby bath under a skyhook. Problem with trying to sparge a hanging bag is that most of the water finds its path of least resistance and just runs through.

I can see the following working quite well:

• Mash with the keggle under a skyhook.
• Drain.
• Have your burner off to one side.
• Lift keggle with first runnings onto burner and start that off
• place baby bath under hoisted bag and drop it in
• Give it a good "batch" sparge with your next lot of 78 degree water
• rehoist the bag and drain
• jug the second runnings into the keggle