'tipping' Hop Bines

[gruntus]

Sounds like Sydney weather is not being kind to our hops. Anyone else from Sydney who has had their hops stall and hasn't tipped them? I am still holding onto the hope that the tipping will work and don't really want to think that I have butchered my plants... yet.

I have a perle (1.5m) & saaz (1m) going along happily. Both were newly purchased but weren't from a new rhizome cutting....they had a 1 year old root system. These have been growing at about 2 to 5cm a day.

I have some other varieties that were purchased through gilbrew and were small rhizome cuttings. These have stalled at about 0.5m....I'm guessing that it is to establish a decent root system.

 

[benno1973]

I accidentally 'tipped' one of the goldings bines a week ago and as in the past, a new tip has appeared next to the original and its heading in the same direction as the original.

Yep, same here. Something took the tip off one of my Mt Hood shoots a couple of weeks ago. I thought all might be lost until a couple of days ago I saw a small shoot emerging at the leaf node below where the tipping occurred. It's growing very slowly, but hopefully it will catch up soon. Other other 2 bines are growing a couple of inches each day!

 

[white.grant]

My POR has self tipped in the rotten bloody weather that has been lashing the 'gong for the last couple of weeks, so I will be interested to see how it turns out.

The Campbelltown POR has two bines coming up and is now well in the lead.

cheers

grant

 

[Frank]

On one of the several hundred Chinese Hop thread pages, someone linked a PDF with some info on the way the Chinese grow hops.
The photos showed the hops vertically trellised to around 1.8-2.0m or there abouts, where it appears they are tipped and hedged back for mechanisation. If anyone saved the link could they post it here again.
Thanks

 

[[email protected]]

A quick search of the topic - turns up this info by crozdog


[codebox]found some info on Chinese hop production that you might be interested in:



From the International Hop Growers 2005 Convention http://www.czhops.cz/tc/pdf/chinesehop.pdf



http://www.sapporobeer.jp/english/kenkyu/agri/china.html



http://www.sourcejuice.com/1024898/2008/08...ltivation-base/[/codebox]

On one of the several hundred Chinese Hop thread pages, someone linked a PDF with some info on the way the Chinese grow hops.

The photos showed the hops vertically trellised to around 1.8-2.0m or there abouts, where it appears they are tipped and hedged back for mechanisation. If anyone saved the link could they post it here again.
Thanks

 

[Mantis]

Yes, in that pdf they look only 2m tall, but it also looks like they train the bines horizontally after they reach that height.
I will keep my climbing strings as they are at about 3m and then train them along the top string

 

[drsmurto]

Had a close look at the bines that were accidentally tipped and discovered not 1 but 2 new tips growing out at ~45deg to the original tip.

So maybe i was a little premature in poo poo-ing this method...... will keep an eye on them and see how they progress. If they grow another few leaves i could in theory tip them both again and see what happens. The plant has in excess of 30 bines now so playing around with 1 of them isnt going to screw up the yield.

 

[Bongchitis]

Had a close look at the bines that were accidentally tipped and discovered not 1 but 2 new tips growing out at ~45deg to the original tip.

So maybe i was a little premature in poo poo-ing this method...... will keep an eye on them and see how they progress. If they grow another few leaves i could in theory tip them both again and see what happens. The plant has in excess of 30 bines now so playing around with 1 of them isnt going to screw up the yield.

Cool!

This is exactly what I wanted to see with mine ... and then tip again shortly after as you mentioned. If the bine is strong enough then you should have at least 4 laterals becoming growing tips.

30 bines ... Is that normal? or are you sprinkling some Smurto magic dust on them?

 

[I like beer]

dr smurtos must be like mine with inexess of 30 bines on them , but if i took the tips out could dip the cutting in clonex or rooting powder and get a heap of new plants for next year

 

[drsmurto]

Cool!

This is exactly what I wanted to see with mine ... and then tip again shortly after as you mentioned. If the bine is strong enough then you should have at least 4 laterals becoming growing tips.

30 bines ... Is that normal? or are you sprinkling some Smurto magic dust on them?

Mine are in the ground, not in pots and this is the 2nd year for the goldings. When i planted it 2 years ago the root ball was the size of a soccer ball!

So yes, more than 30 shoots already and this from a rhizome that i cut off several lengths and sold in winter!

The soil here is the magic ingredient, i am surrounded by apple/pear and cherry orchards (and far too many vineyards). That and the bag of horse shit that got dumped on them at the start of winter.

Will let the 2 new tips grow a few sets of leaves and then tip them both again.

 

[tumi2]

My POR and Chinok that i accidently tipped both stalled as per my previous post.

After several weeks of stalled (next to no growth) dead leaves they are now starting to get some smaller shoots around the bases of other leaf junctions. the plants have not got any taller though since the day they were tipped. I have now taken off all old leaves in hope it spurs along the new growth.

Either way, if the plant does not increasin in heigh and only bushes out am i likelt to get any hops from them?

 

[Bongchitis]

Just an update.

Its been zero growth on the hops up untill a couple of weeks ago and then came all this:

Cascade


Goldings


The 2 bines of each that stalled started to grow 4+ laterals each = 8 growth tips per pot... and then there are the extra bines breaking the surface, 2 for the cascade and 6 for the goldings atm. I have tipped these aswell and there are now heaps of laterals going. They are growing very fast!

 

[OzMick]

Going to tip a couple of plants this weekend for propagating some cuttings and to encourage some sideways action on my trellis. Earlier in the season tips got burnt on a few plants under 1m tall and had a huge breakout of lateral growth as a result, so now have a stack of growing tips just begging to become clones.

If it weren't for the fact that the heat did it this time and cost me all of my Chinooks, I'd say that an early tipping once a few feet tall on 1st year growth is probably a really good idea, especially if not throwing many bines from the rhizome.

 

[MarkBastard]

I accidentally tipped mine (by tipping I mean that I bent the bine such that it was half-broken). It was about 1.6m high I'd estimate, and I'd estimate I broke it at about the 1m mark.

Everything above the break wiltered very quickly and soon enough the bine above that point started to lose colour.

But the laterals that grew were amazing. I now have 4 laterals in total that I strung along the dead part. I would certainly consider tipping again but I'll wait until flower growth before I make up my mind.

In the pic the one on the left is the one I tipped. It's Chinook. The middle one is Tettnang and the right POR.

 

[Dazza_devil]

Here's my 2 bobs worth, it may or may not be applicable or of use,

When it comes to nature I respect it's ability to produce a plant in it's optimum form given it's surrounding environment. We can help it along and perhaps simulate an ideal environment but the plant knows best how to make use of it. I let my hops grow how they want. I hardly even train them, they know where to grow.

The most flowers on a plant may not necessarily mean a good quality individual flower, which is what we want when it comes down to it.

A friend of a mate of mine's uncle is quite an authority on the hop plants close relative. Here is some of his wisdom which may be applicable, and no I'm not stoned or addicted to the stuff.
The flowers closer to the ends and top of the plant have a higher concentration of resins.
Tipping or training the the plant horizontally will not increase yield, only make it easier to conceal.
Ultimate quality flowers will be produced from a single tip.
Hyproponically grown buds may have a stronger potency but may also taste like shit and sometimes almost unidentifiable as the pure product. Also the effect is unnatural and can lead to worsened side effects from it's long term use.
The time of harvest is very important to flower quality.
The amount of direct sunlight that the plant receives is the most important factor in producing quality flowers.
When the time is right the plant throws everything into flower production, even takes nutrients from it's own leaves.
I would have to consult the knowledge source and contemplate some more but I'm sure there is a lot of other factors which may be applicable.

It is also well known that herbs that have somewhat struggled to grow will produce the better quality and more fragrent oils than those that have been fertilised to buggery in an attempt to increase growth rate and yield. Sunlight, once again is a major discerning factor here. The plant needs as much as it can get to a logical degree. It's better for a plant to put it's energy into flowering at the right time rather than putting it into growth in an attempt to gain more sunlight.

Hope some of it helps. I'm not trying to turn this into a dope growing debate just wanting to raise some probable discerning factors.

Cheers.

 

[Bongchitis]

Either way, if the plant does not increasin in heigh and only bushes out am i likelt to get any hops from them?

When the laterals grow and bush out they then become vertical growth tips themselves so it will increase in height!

This is the very thing I am mucking around with, can I reduce height whilst still maintaining flower production... even increasing flower production. Not sure but we will see.

 

[OzMick]

When the laterals grow and bush out they then become vertical growth tips themselves so it will increase in height!

This is the very thing I am mucking around with, can I reduce height whilst still maintaining flower production... even increasing flower production. Not sure but we will see.

I've read it isn't so much the height of the plant, but more the number of nodes above which a plant will flower. So stunting a plant to be low height with lots of short laterals will be of no use as you won't approach that minimum sort of number, but if training longer horizontal growths I can't see why it won't work if you let it travel far enough.

What it also means is that plants that don't get enough sunlight stretch out to find the sun, meaning a tall plant but perhaps not many nodes, so difficulty in reaching that flowering phase unless you let it grow to be very long.

 

[Bongchitis]

I've read it isn't so much the height of the plant, but more the number of nodes above which a plant will flower. So stunting a plant to be low height with lots of short laterals will be of no use as you won't approach that minimum sort of number, but if training longer horizontal growths I can't see why it won't work if you let it travel far enough.

What it also means is that plants that don't get enough sunlight stretch out to find the sun, meaning a tall plant but perhaps not many nodes, so difficulty in reaching that flowering phase unless you let it grow to be very long.

Interesting! I was thinking that early tipping gave each bine time to develop vigour ie. consistent leaf size and shape, thicker stem, faster and more robust growth etc before flowering, which is pretty much saying the same thing in that you have time for the number of nodes on each bine to increase. Late tipping may induce growth of laterals at each node, the more nodes means more laterals thus the resources are spread over a greater number of laterals and spindly growth may result. You don't prune any productive plant I know of just before flowering or fruiting if you are trying to get the best size and quality yield. Pruning is almost universally done prior to the vegetative growth phase or the start of at the latest.

The crux of this idea of mine is tipping early ONLY. Resources spread between 4 laterals, thus reduced vigour compared to the 'parent' bine but still robust enough to support flowering when mature. The internodal length of the untipped bines seem to be quite long whereas the tipped bines have a shorter internodal length atm. It may be possible to achieve this 'minnimum # nodes' in many more and shorter bines.

With all the flowering/fruiting plants I have grown to date, you need foliage to support flowers/fruit. This means lots of leaves and thus lots of nodes, I think you are onto something Mick.

Both varieties in full sun all day so no dramas there.

There is years of work in this... or they don't flower for 3 years in a row and I give up. At least the leaves are purdy and covers the shitty mist green fence! But I will give it 3 years! See how it goes.

 

[Bongchitis]

Here's my 2 bobs worth, it may or may not be applicable or of use,

When it comes to nature I respect it's ability to produce a plant in it's optimum form given it's surrounding environment. We can help it along and perhaps simulate an ideal environment but the plant knows best how to make use of it. I let my hops grow how they want. I hardly even train them, they know where to grow.

The most flowers on a plant may not necessarily mean a good quality individual flower, which is what we want when it comes down to it.

A friend of a mate of mine's uncle is quite an authority on the hop plants close relative. Here is some of his wisdom which may be applicable, and no I'm not stoned or addicted to the stuff.
The flowers closer to the ends and top of the plant have a higher concentration of resins.
Tipping or training the the plant horizontally will not increase yield, only make it easier to conceal.
Ultimate quality flowers will be produced from a single tip.
Hyproponically grown buds may have a stronger potency but may also taste like shit and sometimes almost unidentifiable as the pure product. Also the effect is unnatural and can lead to worsened side effects from it's long term use.
The time of harvest is very important to flower quality.
The amount of direct sunlight that the plant receives is the most important factor in producing quality flowers.
When the time is right the plant throws everything into flower production, even takes nutrients from it's own leaves.
I would have to consult the knowledge source and contemplate some more but I'm sure there is a lot of other factors which may be applicable.

It is also well known that herbs that have somewhat struggled to grow will produce the better quality and more fragrent oils than those that have been fertilised to buggery in an attempt to increase growth rate and yield. Sunlight, once again is a major discerning factor here. The plant needs as much as it can get to a logical degree. It's better for a plant to put it's energy into flowering at the right time rather than putting it into growth in an attempt to gain more sunlight.

Hope some of it helps. I'm not trying to turn this into a dope growing debate just wanting to raise some probable discerning factors.

Cheers.

Boagsy,

Thanks for your Aunties neighbours uncles insights. B)

Not sure about the tipping/training thing though. Plenty of literature and experience out there that says different... which is why I am attempting this in the first place!

 

[Dazza_devil]

My Aunties best friends cousin's dog did have some good literature on the tipping and potency but someone pilfered it. Apparently the flowers can actually protect themselves, extreme heat and sunlight can degrade the resins so it's a bit of this and the other really. More sun equals a more compact plant, the more compact the plant the better and a single crown gives a good balance of this.
The way I see it, the best way to increase your yield would be to split your rhizomes.