'tipping' Hop Bines

[Bongchitis]

G'Day all,

I'm a bit of a gardener and I am growing Cascade and Goldings hops in large 1/2 wine barrels. It is my first try and they have only shot up in the last 2 weeks but already I know they are going to outgrow the location very quickly in terms of height which leads me to the question:

Can you nip out the growing tips of the bine to induce side branching and minimise the overall size of the plant?

This is done with a wide variety of plants to maintain a compact nature and to increase the homogenity and yield of flowers. You don't get huge flowers but heaps of medium sized ones.

I have had a quick look and everyone who writes about hop growing advocates giving them height, no real mention of other stratagies.

I was just wondering what people thought and if anyone had experience doing this with hops.

Any advice would be great.

Cheers all................Bongchitis

 

[Sammus]

I've thought about growing hops and winding them back and forth on a grate thing to cover a big square area... kind of like 'SOG' style...even to do it under lights indoors...

 

[Bongchitis]

Well the 'hops cousin' and growing methods is what made me think of it.

I like the SOG/SCROG setup. Looks great in full swing and would be easily achievable to reduce height, but to work as a yield maximiser you need multiple growth tips and I guess thats where the tipping comes in.

Indoor hops would be great, perpetual hop garden!... and as with hydro 'cousins', they are grown to their latent potential and thus resins and oils are maximised. I guess for hops that means more bang for your buck for bitering, flavour and aroma!

I've thought about growing hops and winding them back and forth on a grate thing to cover a big square area... kind of like 'SOG' style...even to do it under lights indoors...

 

[thylacine]

"...Adjustable Trellis
If you set up the adjustable trellis as described earlier, the hop vines will soon grow towards the top of the stake. When they are a few inches below the eye, untie the twine from the base of the stake and feed out a few feet of twine, letting the vine droop a bit. You may need to pull the vine gently downward to get the twine to slide through the hook and eye. Then, loosely tie the twine to the stake again.

As the vine grows, youll need to feed out more twine every time it approaches the top of the stake. In the part of the season when the vines grow the fastest, you may need to adjust it every week. If you keep making this adjustment, the tips of the vines will always be growing upwards, approaching the top of the stake. The bulk of the vine will eventually be coiled on the ground next to the planter. This doesnt seem to bother the plant, but make sure the leaves dont stay wet or get infested with insects. Once the vine touches the ground, I like to tie a loop of regular twine around the vine and the stake. This keeps the vines from getting whipped around too much when it is windy. A nice benefit of the adjustable trellis is that you can harvest the cones progressively, and theyll all be at an easily reachable height. And if they arent, just adjust the trellis. Containers eliminate many worries about space..."

http://www.byo.com/stories/article/indices...s-in-containers

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=35306

 

[altone]

Well the 'hops cousin' and growing methods is what made me think of it.

I like the SOG/SCROG setup. Looks great in full swing and would be easily achievable to reduce height, but to work as a yield maximiser you need multiple growth tips and I guess thats where the tipping comes in.

Indoor hops would be great, perpetual hop garden!... and as with hydro 'cousins', they are grown to their latent potential and thus resins and oils are maximised. I guess for hops that means more bang for your buck for bitering, flavour and aroma!

Well, if it works, all those brew and grow type LHBS will have a whole new level of use to us brewers.
Year round fresh hops from your own indoor hop garden

I would like to see if it's possible to get decent results by tipping and keeping height down a little as I could then grow
more varieties - limited space out back, but plenty of free space at the front if I could keep them to 1.5m or so.
I have 2x Hallertau rhizomes growing so will try it out on one and compare the results.

I guess it'll take a while before the results are available though ......

 

[Bongchitis]

http://journals.uzpi.cz/uniqueFiles/02771.pdf

... Interesting article and seems to debunk a few tried and 'true' hop growing theories such as only leave 3 bines to grow etc.

Pruning early mid and late season and effects to yield and AA%... just skimmed it and need to reread to deduce what is meant by 'pruning' exactly. I believe these are ground grown aswell but still relevant.

It also advocates the growth of up to 3 bine up the 1 pole for compactness and yield. They are a comparitively sparce plant with long internodal length so this makes sense.

It seems the more I look the more people state that the laterals are where the bulk of the flowers come from thus in my mind more laterals mean more flowers and this fits with my previous experience with tipping plants. Tip early... Laterals grow/mature themselves becoming growth tips...Produce more laterals... More flowers. This is limited of course by root size, health of plant etc. No point tipping a spindly sick plant and stressing it further.

bb: It would be good to compare the 2 Hallertau side by side. 1 tipped, 1 not. I await the results.

Thylacine: Adjustable trellis... Nice to keep the height down, nice links. Thanks

I am going to search further but I will just bite the bullet and do it. I have no experience with this plant and no standard to compare to but will continue regardless and post results here and hopefully bods will do the same. Anyone else willing to take a chance is more than welcome to post resuts here also.

Anecdotal evidence is just evidence without a large data set and critical assesment and will be good enough for me if a few of us get similar results compared to expectation... one way or the other.

Thanks so far guys, keep the ideas coming.

Cheers

Well, if it works, all those brew and grow type LHBS will have a whole new level of use to us brewers.
Year round fresh hops from your own indoor hop garden

I would like to see if it's possible to get decent results by tipping and keeping height down a little as I could then grow
more varieties - limited space out back, but plenty of free space at the front if I could keep them to 1.5m or so.
I have 2x Hallertau rhizomes growing so will try it out on one and compare the results.

I guess it'll take a while before the results are available though ......

 

[Bizier]

I think if you tip your bine, it probably won't fork to two new smaller leaders. Therefore, you might be limited to the amount of hop flowers from a finite number of laterals, even if these are slightly heavier yielding than usual.

My 2c, and I could be wrong, but I have not noticed much activity from bines that have experienced damage to the growing tip. That said, the bines that I speak of are attached to a plant in the ground with other large leaders, so the plant might simply be diverting the energy to other bines.

 

[Bongchitis]

Yeah, I only have experience with umbrella tipping where ALL larger growth centres are tipped and is done on plants prone to laterals developing without tipping. Hops seem to be straight up and down until late in the season where the vegetative growth has been occuring for some time ie. Laterals not usually found below 2m mark. With hop cousins, laterals seem to be induced pre flowering and nodal length is shortened as a standard mechanism of development thus producing the tight/dense floral cluster known as heads. Perhaps the late lateral development is a sign that the plant is getting ready to flower and not a standard occurence in a plant in vegetative growth. In which case the experiment is doomed to fail unless I utilise Giberralic acid (or other growth promoter) to get the laterals cranking whilst still in vegetative growth.

But I love to fail, i am exceptionally good at it in fact... so I will continue.

I think if you tip your bine, it probably won't fork to two new smaller leaders. Therefore, you might be limited to the amount of hop flowers from a finite number of laterals, even if these are slightly heavier yielding than usual.

My 2c, and I could be wrong, but I have not noticed much activity from bines that have experienced damage to the growing tip. That said, the bines that I speak of are attached to a plant in the ground with other large leaders, so the plant might simply be diverting the energy to other bines.

 

[thylacine]

"...Our homebrewing group is primarily about growing hops (humulus lupulus) in small gardens or large hop farms, and these related topics: trellis and arbor design; disease and pest treatment; hop drying, storage, and use; and the exchange of hop rhizomes and whole-hops..."

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Grow-Hops/

 

[barls]

i tip mine and get great side laterals.

 

[Bongchitis]

I was hoping you would chime in barls as you obviously grow hops well... seemed to have a thousand rhysomes for sale recently.

I have a few Q's then mate:

Do you tip early or late in the veg growth stage? (@ what height of leader)

Do you think it makes a difference to the uniformity and yield of cones?

How often do you tip? (once per leader or more)

By how much does this reduce the overall height of the plant?

Does the tipping delay the maturation of the cones?

any other tips mate???


Again, thanks for chiming in......cheers.

 

[barls]

ok i only tip once they reach the top of my trellis so to limit the vertical growth bear in mind i still run the side laterals up the twine as well.
as for reducing my crop i dont think it does as this is the way ive done it every year so far and i always seem to get at least 3 harvests off my bines.

 

[Bongchitis]

Ok then,

barls tips late with seemingly no ill effects to yield etc.

My plan is to tip early on in the leaders growth as a pre-emptive strike on height and to give them a chance to develop and mature. Previous experience with other plants seems to indicate that too late a tipping doesn't give the laterals a chance to grow out and throw out laterals themselves and seems to have a negative impact on flower quality, yield and delays maturation of flowers.

Shit...my missus needs the computer...to be continued.

 

[Bongchitis]

Right then,

as I was saying...

I'm planning on early tipping, and perhaps again shortly after depending on how vigorous the growth is. 1 leader becomes 2+, which becomes 4+ and then let it grow out for a couple of months before onset of flowers. Strict fert and water regime will likely be implemented aswell.

again I wont have a standard untipped plant as a reference but it should be easy to see if I have made a blunder if the cones are only fingernail size or it doesn't flower at all. Really, If i get a harvest of healthy cones, be they smallish, on a bine that I can reach the top of I'll be happy... and I will learn something along the way. And if I **** up then that is just par for the course.

Thylacine: Is that pic on the home page of the yahoo site a single plant? If so there is no way I'll be planting in the ground. It almost takes up half the house!

I might as well take some pics and make this a grow log, will start today.

Anybody else with ideas or input?

Cheers............Bongchitis

 

[eric8]

So the thinking here is that once it gets to a certain height, you tip the leading bine, thus making any laterals that start to grow get more of the nutrients from the plant.

At what type of height are you talking here, or how long should you let the leading tip grow for before tipping? Do you then start to let the laterals grow up the stake, or are you going to try and let them grow on something sideways?

I take it the main aim is to get most of the nutrients to the laterals so you can try and produce more cones and a bigger yield?

 

[Bongchitis]

So the thinking here is that once it gets to a certain height, you tip the leading bine, thus making any laterals that start to grow get more of the nutrients from the plant.

At what type of height are you talking here, or how long should you let the leading tip grow for before tipping? Do you then start to let the laterals grow up the stake, or are you going to try and let them grow on something sideways?

I take it the main aim is to get most of the nutrients to the laterals so you can try and produce more cones and a bigger yield?

That is exactly what I am trying to do but an added advantage is a shorter compact plant that is easier to harvest. I have tipped plants in the same family the node after the true leaves appear from a seed grown plant... 5cm tall and then again shortly after with great results. I will do the same here. I try to move/spread the growing tip apart and snip out as little material as possible to minimise shock and tend to do it at nightfall out of direct sun.

Yep grow all laterals up the existing stake/wire as barls does and they become leaders themselves if given enough time. The journal article posted above indicates multiple leaders on one wire can be beneficial.

My Cascade is now almost 50cm tall in 2 weeks so I will tip now. Probably would have done it earlier if I had thought about it then.

A few pics:




Overview of location, Left is Cascade, right Goldings

 

[Bongchitis]

The offender.

 

[Bongchitis]

Chopped it!

 

[Bongchitis]

North Westerly aspect, good sun. Best potting mix I could buy with some water crystals added. Sugar cane mulch used.

 

[Bongchitis]

:icon_offtopic:




another one of my passions, grafting cacti. 2 different cacti grafted to a 3rd variety root stock. Will eventually consist of 6 or 7 varieties on 1 plant.