thoughts on this APA please

[lukasfab]

what you think guys, should this give a hoppy beer?

kegged it yesterday and tasted today and i don't get any hops


HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Batch 44. Otters Pale

Brew Method: BIAB
Style Name: American Pale Ale
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 21 liters (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 26.9 liters
Boil Gravity: 1.039
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)


STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.050
Final Gravity: 1.010
ABV (standard): 5.21%
IBU (tinseth): 52.19
SRM (morey): 8.25

FERMENTABLES:
3.5 kg - United Kingdom - Maris Otter Pale (73.1%)
0.8 kg - German - Wheat Malt (16.7%)
0.4 kg - German - CaraMunich I (8.4%)
0.09 kg - German - Carapils (1.9%)

HOPS:
10 g - Magnum, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.1, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 16.15
14 g - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.7, Use: Boil for 20 min, IBU: 14.37
14 g - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 13.2, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 8.94
30 g - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 13.2, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 10.54
30 g - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.7, Use: Boil for 1 min, IBU: 2.19
30 g - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 13.2, Use: Dry Hop for 5 days
30 g - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.7, Use: Dry Hop for 5 days

YEAST:
Mangrove Jack - New World Strong Ale M42
Starter: No
Form: Dry
Attenuation (avg): 79.5%
Flocculation: High
Optimum Temp: 16.11 - 22.22 C
Fermentation Temp: 17 C


Generated by Brewer's Friend - http://www.brewersfriend.com/

 

[Chridech]

Do you use a chiller or run boiling wort into a no-chill cube? To maximise hop aroma next time I'd suggest moving the 10, 5, and 1 minute additions to flameout, or if you no chill put them in a hop bag in the cube. If you have a chiller and can recirculate, an even better option would be to chill the wort to say 80C and then add the late hops for a 20 to 30min hopstand/whirlpool before chilling completely. That way you minimise additional AA utilisation and retain desirable aroma compounds. To achieve the same IBU you may need to re-gig the 60 and 20 min additions amounts. I suggest splitting the IBUs: 1/3 early (60 min) and 2/3 late (20min and later). You will use more hops this way but also get more hop flavour/aroma.
You will get best results if your hops are as fresh as possible and have been well handled.
Another consideration is the timing and temperature of dry hopping. Three days or even less may be enough if it is timed towards the end of the ferment. Surface contact is greater with loose rather than bagged hops. Dry hopping at fermenting temp rather than during crash chill may also be beneficial. It's a while since I read about this so hopefully more experienced Brewers can comment.
Finally some yeast strains can really scrub hop flavour/aroma. I recall others reporting one of the MJ strains can do this but don't know if it was M42.

Edit: Just found and read through your other thread on whirlpool IBU calculations. All relevant.

 

[fungrel]

No hops? Give it time. Beta acids will oxidise as the beer ages and you will get more bitterness too. I personally would've cut the caramunich to 4% but with 50ibu+ it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[mtb]

Wheat ought to contribute all the head you need, so carapils is probably unnecessary here.

 

[damoninja]

Finally some yeast strains can really scrub hop flavour/aroma. I recall others reporting one of the MJ strains can do this but don't know if it was M42.

At least based on their write up on it sounds like one that you can comfortably use with hoppy beers, then again their California lager yeast is saccharomyces cerevisiae.........

Wheat ought to contribute all the head you need, so carapils is probably unnecessary here.

+1

Was writing this then saw...

 

[Droopy Brew]

You should have plenty of hop presence with that recipe.

I think the yeast is the most likly culprit. Although I am not familiar with it, a strong ale yeast is likely to work better with malt forward beer.

 

[lukasfab]

yep i use IC , with this one i let sit for about 10min before starting to chill to pitch.

yes this is somewhat related to my other topic i started, because of this brew i started the other topic.

i will take on board the carapils and wheat suggestion but will that be the cause of no hop aroma / flavour ?

i think you are correct, before kegging samples had some sort of flavour to it , so be it it only a day it the keg but no taste / smell or bitterness .

yeah first time with this yeast , i don' t even get any malt flavour yet and it seems dry and not much body. it did finish at 1008

give it a week and see how it goes from there

cheers all

 

[wereprawn]

I've been using M42 almost exclusively for the last few months as most of my beers are APAs ,and it definitely doesn't strip hop flavour or aroma . Sorry I can't be more helpful but I'd be looking somewhere else than M42 as the source of your hoppylessness.

 

[technobabble66]

Fwiw, oxygenation will "strip" hops aroma & flavour.
Could you have introduced a significant amount of oxygenation somewhere? Like in bottling, etc?

 

[lukasfab]

Don't think so??
I keg

 

[mb-squared]

my guess is that the cara-munich isn't doing you any favours -- maybe drop that down to ~3% next time? but I suspect the real reason is that the hops had been exposed to oxygen at some point before you got them. oxygen (and high temps) kills hop aroma/flavour. maybe try a different source for your next hops?

the lack of control over how our hops are handled before we get them is the one thing that makes homebrewing frustrating ... to me at least. one batch can be fantastic; the next batch, brewed under identical conditions (except for when/where you got your hops), can be a bit of a dud.

 

[technobabble66]

Don't think so??
I keg

Should be much less of an issue then.
I assume you use a hose to transfer from FV to keg.
(I recently discovered 2 friends who are new-ish into brewing both just open the FV tap with the keg under it. It worked for them and they didn't see why they'd be an issue [emoji15])

& +1 to what mb^2 said

 

[lukasfab]

ok i take the caramunich amount on board, cheers

yeah well with the hops we dont have much control.

techno, yes i use hose to transfer to keg?
i dont just open the tap at full speed, takes a good 10min for transfer

on a good note amazing what extra keg hop, 24hrs and proper carbonation does.
not the bomb but much better

 

[huez]

Hop aroma and flavour dropping out is one sign of oxidation as technobabble has said, i'd honestly be looking at as you had a decent enough dry hop. Mitch steel has a good write up on his blog http://hoptripper.com/the-real-quality-issue-oxidation/