Thermostat For Herms System

[Bigfella]

I am in the middle of building my new herms unit and I am after a thermostat for my heat exchanger I was wondering if this unit would do the job. or do you guys have any other options that may suit. I will eventually use a pid controller but I wouldn't know where to start with that one...


http://oatleyelectronics.com/bcorner2.html

ZC0621 (NEW) JET-11 REMOTE BULB THERMOSTAT

 

[Franko]

I am in the middle of building my new herms unit and I am after a thermostat for my heat exchanger I was wondering if this unit would do the job. or do you guys have any other options that may suit. I will eventually use a pid controller but I wouldn't know where to start with that one...


http://oatleyelectronics.com/bcorner2.html

ZC0621 (NEW) JET-11 REMOTE BULB THERMOSTAT

Bigfella,
these are what I am planning on using not bad price either Im told for a PID Controller
PID COntroller

Franko :beer:

 

[ArnieW]

Hi BigFella,

the Oatley thermostat looks the goods for up to 3600W of heating and is simple because you don't have to add anything to it.

The PID that Franko suggested looks like an excellent choice for the price. It is only capable of 3A from its relay output, which means you would need to use it to switch something like a solid state relay or a larger capacity mechanical relay. For the $, the PID seems like a better option if you can handle the extra complexity of mounting relays and wiring 240VAC.

Remember, 240V and water/wort don't mix well. I always use a residual current breaker on my machine, and keep power and water separate.

(Franko, I've never seen such a cheap PID - I want one now <_< )

Have fun, I love playing around with this stuff.

Arnie

 

[Bigfella]

That PID looks great. I'm guessing that if I want to run two elements in two different tanks I would have to buy two of them. It looks like it only has a single output.

I want to run a separate tank for my heat exchanger and one for my HLT..

 

[Justin]

Hi Bigfella,

I got two Omron E5CS-R1KJ pid temp controllers off US ebay for about $30 each. They are a nice simple controller to use, no complex menu's or settings (it's there if you want to delve into the hidden menus) but basically for our purposes you don't really need the functions of PID. You can just use them as a simple on/off digital thermostat temp controller.

Mine have the 3Amp relay output so I have to wire them to a suitably rated mechanical relay (which I already had). If I was to maybe buy them again I'd get the E5CS-Q??? ones with a solid state relay output just because they are quicker and easier to wire with a SSR (which you can get for around the $20 mark).

They are nicer to use over the mechanical bulb thermostats because 1. you can move your probes around quite easily and they are harder to damage (don't know if this is a problem for you but I disassemble my brewery to store it). 2.the probes are replaceable if you do damage one(K-type thermocouple) and 3. if you want a certain temp you can just type it in, with a mechanical you can spin the dial to approximately that temp but you still have to watch it to make sure you got the temp right. This isn't as much of a problem as it seems.

Best of luck finding what your after.

Justin

 

[Bigfella]

It looks like I may have to move out of my comfort zone and go for PID controllers...


Thanks Guys

 

[Justin]

They do have some nice advantages. Most PIDs have the option for on/off control which is what I alluded to above so there is no need to mess with PID programming and stuff. Most will auto tune anyway, but having never used any like this in any situation I have no idea or relevant experience as to what the performance is like.

As stated above I just use and plan to use my controllers as simple on/off thermostats (they also have variable hysteresis adn you can calibrate them too). I'm about to wire one up to control a heat belt on an APA I brewed on the weekend. It'll take me about 5 mins to wire and get working because of the low wattage of the heat belt and I can run it directly through the controller.

My beer is a bit cold, so needs some controlled heat input. A nice cascade APA, hope it comes out nice as I'm holding out for a nice beer to drink.

 

[chimera]

Guys, i really wouldnt get all that carried away about PID controllers, they wouldnt be necessary to control something with the thermal lag of what you're looking at.

An on/off controller would suffice if you want to go digital, make sure you get one capable of switching the full load of your heating element or you'll fry it

Update:
Checking with one of the guys in our office, he reckons you'll struggle to find a digital controller capable of switching the full 10+ amp load in the low price range, you'd have to switch a higher capacity relay to run a 3600W element.

 

[Bigfella]

Guys, i really wouldnt get all that carried away about PID controllers, they wouldnt be necessary to control something with the thermal lag of what you're looking at.

An on/off controller would suffice if you want to go digital, make sure you get one capable of switching the full load of your heating element or you'll fry it

Update:
Checking with one of the guys in our office, he reckons you'll struggle to find a digital controller capable of switching the full 10+ amp load in the low price range, you'd have to switch a higher capacity relay to run a 3600W element.

I guess adding a relay to it will up the cost again..

 

[Doogiechap]

G'day Bigfella,
I have just ordered my second Controlli YC3 immersible bulb thermostat from Oatley (picture here) . My first is for my Herms setup and I am happy with it's control (although I am using an 1800 watt element from a dead dishwasher) so it's only switching 7.5 amps. My second is for my new HLT and also using another dishwasher element. They are a good plug and play item with a 1/2 bsp thread on the base of the probe. I will look at either pic control or an old Mac serial data log/ control interface in the future but for now it's a quick/ easy cheap option. Good luck in your decion making
Doug

 

[chimera]

This kind of addition to the price

4500W Relay @ Jaycar

 

[Bigfella]

G'day Bigfella,
I have just ordered my second Controlli YC3 immersible bulb thermostat from Oatley (picture here) . My first is for my Herms setup and I am happy with it's control (although I am using an 1800 watt element from a dead dishwasher) so it's only switching 7.5 amps. My second is for my new HLT and also using another dishwasher element. They are a good plug and play item with a 1/2 bsp thread on the base of the probe. I will look at either pic control or an old Mac serial data log/ control interface in the future but for now it's a quick/ easy cheap option. Good luck in your decion making
Doug

I did see that but I was a bit worried about only going to 90 I know for the norm it wouldn't be a problem.

 

[crozdog]

The relay Chimera proposes uses 12v for the coil, to use it you'd need to add a 12v source to your setup to use it, it's not hard, just something extra to do.

I bought a solid state relay (SSR) from these guys whose web site is here. It isn't the easiest site to navigate, but they have lots of electrical / electronic gear cheap. Give em a call if you can't find what you're after, friendly & efficient. No affiliation etc.

The SSR i bought was a 240v/240v 25A unit. It cost me about $30 inc freight. Being a 240v/240v unit meant I could use mains to energise the coil as well as for the load. For me this simplified things as i didn't need to include a 12v source.

good luck with your project.

Crozdog

 

[chimera]

Yeah, it is 12VDC on the coil side, you'd want mains AC bigfella.

Regarding your last statement - SSR = solid state relay = no moving parts. Mechanical relays have moving parts, excitation coils, magnetic contacts.

I'd opt for a mechanical relay over a SSR, simply because SSRs tend to fail short circuit whereas with electromechanical if their coil dies they break the contact loop. Most applications Ive seen where SSRs are used tend towards high speed switching and are protected by a electromech relay in series as a failsafe.

Some SSRs are better than others, never played with Crouzet though crozdog, although ive seen thousands of dollars of equipment fried by SSR failures - some of it not by me

 

[Sparky]

I've just recently bought SSRs for my planned rig.

These beasties are Teledyne P/N 621-15, switching 40A up to 480V ac & the control is 90 - 250V ac.
I bought them from an used machinery place for $10 each, complete with the heatsinks, (you need a good heatsink for these guys). They were off some machine that had a heap of heating circuits on it.

Worth looking around these places (if the guy that runs it aint a crook, you can get some good deals). I found a plc controller with a display screen and PID control to look after temperatures .

In these sort of places, the control boxes & motor starters are their bread & butter. The components like above are not very sort after, so usually they are quite negotiable.

Have had SSRs in service switching 400V ac motor control cicuits on a Boiler where I work. They are reasonable quality & have been in service 15 years + with no problems.

Cheers

 

[Bigfella]

I was talking to my brother about all this the other day. He tells me I have a PID that I can have it turns out he does all this stuff for a living. I really should talk to him more often. The only problem is he has no interest in brewing so he doesn't really know what I'm on about.