The 'no Messin Method' Fermenter To Keg

[pokolbinguy]

I tried the gravity method and after filtering 2 kegs it slowed to a trickle so i sanitised this pump and whamo!...so i bought a cheap $15 trolley from supercheap and fixed the whole lot to it, makes everything so much easier, took an idea, added to it and there it is......

Daz

Nice idea with the trolley.

Where did you get the pump?

Pok

 

[cliffo]

Cliffo I use a combination of 8mm & 3/8" line fittings but 8MM is fine .

make sure you chill the fermenter for a day or two to drop the yeast out of suspension

You must bleed your filter to let the air out .

But hey dont worry if you get some in I have never had a problem with oxidising the beer .

You dont have to wait for 15 -20 mins to watch all the beer go through the fermenter ( a watch pot never boils )

just release the valve on the keg and go away and enjoya beer and your favourite program on the TV for that time

Cliffo forcing beer through your filter with a pump or gas is really for the impatient, it is not conducive to good filtering ,as you want it togently pass through the filter .

Trust me it works if you have the right filter .

Pumpy

Thanks for the tips - I used to use CO2 to push things through but gave up when I was needing a refill every 6 months.

I've done a couple of batches via the gravity method but the last two really seemed to take an eternity and lotsa bubbles in the line.

Will certainly be giving it another go on the next batch.

 

[Pumpy]

G'day Cliffo,
my last effort was about 20 mins with standard beer line. A couple of points, make sure you purge all of the air/ co2 out of your filter to ensure the maximum surface area of your filter is being utilised. Secondly the higher you can place your fermenter with respect to your filter and keg the faster the transfer. I've just bought a 60 litre fermenter for 40l batches so will need to munch on my Weetbix before doing some risky lifting .
Cheers
Doug

Steady with the60 litre fermenter , I have one and the amount of times that I have pulled a muscle in my back lifting it into and out of the fridge dont bear thinking about

Pumpy

 

[Trough Lolly]

G'day all....congrats on a great thread! :super:

Now I have a confession or two to make...I haven't got a filter nor have I ever used JG fittings...So, I want to get cracking on the Xmas lobbying to score a filter unit!

Has anyone managed to transfer under gravity using the 0.35 micron filter that country brewer flogs?

Cheers,
TL

 

[captaincleanoff]

how does one purge the filter using the gravity method? Just got a filter, and I'm not quite clear on how to purge it. Do you connect co2 to it before hand to purge, then connect the beer? Or do you let the beer flow in, and then purge?

 

[Thirsty Boy]

how does one purge the filter using the gravity method? Just got a filter, and I'm not quite clear on how to purge it. Do you connect co2 to it before hand to purge, then connect the beer? Or do you let the beer flow in, and then purge?

I suspect that a lot of people just let beer run into it and hold down the purge button till beer comes out. That would expose the first litre or so to oxygen but the rest would be fine.

Me personally - I fill my filter housing up with no-rinse sanitiser (starsan) and then blow that out with C02.. then I know my lines and filter are sanitised and don't have any air at all in them. I only worry about purging the filter to make it work effectively, not for removing O2.

When I run out of beer in the fermentor, I disconnect the keg and I turn the filter upside down and drain the remaining beer in it (usually have to blow on the inlet side a bit) into a PET bottle. It gets force carbed (carbonator cap) as my test bottle. Drunk within an hour or so of being filled so infection from blowing the beer through by mouth isn't a problem.

No waste and I don't even worry too much about stirring the fermentors up or letting them crash out too clear... hell, I usually tilt the fermentor and filter half the yeast cake before I call it quits. Yesterday I managed to get 38L of kolsch filtered, left less than 2L of yeast slurry behind between the two fermentors and the flow rate was till OK at the end. Mind you... I run the line down a flight of stairs, so I have a pretty good head height. Still, on a single batch I just go from the top of my fridge until the stuff coming out of the fermentor into the filter is basically solid and wont actually flow!

Cheers

Thirsty

 

[captaincleanoff]

thanks Thirsty, that clears things up. Sounds like you have it down!

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Oh ..... I make it sound good, but you should see me running around the place swearing when something springs a leak

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I filtered my first batch just the other day into a party keg and some bottles. There was about three vertical metres between fermenter and filter and it all kinda just happened through 15metres of BEVA hose. I screwed fermenter taps into both sides of the filter housing and used 'standard' silicon tube to connect John Guest connectors to the fermenter taps to the BEVA hose. It was then just the standard plastic hose to little bottler.

I reckon I will do it better next time, but it is about as easy as it should be and you do get to have a bottle or two at either end that has to be force-carbonated and tested reasonably soon if you don't want to fart around with CO2-flushing the whole system...

 

[cliffo]

Hi Guys,

I'm needing some help with a filtering problem I'm having.

I'm able to filter about 10-12 litres without any issues and at good speed, however, after this the line out of the fermenter gets a lot of air bubbles forming to the point where the flow stops completely.

My set up is pretty much identical to Pumpy's, with the chilled beer in the fermenter sitting on the kitchen bench, filter housing on a chair and then the keg on the floor.

My process is I hold down the filter housing's relief valve until beer starts to come out of the top, then open the ball valve on the out side of the housing. The flow starts fine until the above mentioned problem occurs each time.

Can anyone help shed some light on what I may be doing wrong?

The only thing I can think of is that maybe the filter needs replacing as I've given it a good workout (using CO2 to push the beer through) over the last 12+ months.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Cheers,
cliffo

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Is the air able to get into the fermentor via an unrestricted path?? if your running a sanitary filter as the air inlet, maybe its restricting the airflow too much and once the liquid starts running, the whole fermentor is under a little bit of vacuum, therefore the pulling in of bubbles at the connection between filter and line??

I get a bit of bubble action happening, but its usually coming out of the filter... been wondering whether its just outgassing of C02, or whether maybe the fittings aren't sealing as well against vacuum as they are against outwards leaking. Its gets worse a the filter gets more and more clogged, so the flow restriction is above the point where bubbles happen, the weight of the liquid in the line below is pulling a vacuum and sucking in the air??

I'm going to get a thingy to cut my lines more squarely and cleanly, and next time I filter, maybe put a dab of keg sealant on the end of the lines where they go into the JG fittings. Perhaps you could try that as well? When we are sure that all our fitting are sealing properly, then I suppose we will both need to go looking for other answers

Thirsty

 

[Pumpy]

Hi Guys,

I'm needing some help with a filtering problem I'm having.

I'm able to filter about 10-12 litres without any issues and at good speed, however, after this the line out of the fermenter gets a lot of air bubbles forming to the point where the flow stops completely.

My set up is pretty much identical to Pumpy's, with the chilled beer in the fermenter sitting on the kitchen bench, filter housing on a chair and then the keg on the floor.

My process is I hold down the filter housing's relief valve until beer starts to come out of the top, then open the ball valve on the out side of the housing. The flow starts fine until the above mentioned problem occurs each time.

Can anyone help shed some light on what I may be doing wrong?

The only thing I can think of is that maybe the filter needs replacing as I've given it a good workout (using CO2 to push the beer through) over the last 12+ months.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Cheers,
cliffo

Cliffo ,

if you are getting air bubbles, I take it you are bleeding the air out again if there is any more build up of air in the filter .

I use the one micron absolute USA filter exactly as this http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=723

What micron are you using I have not tried it with a 0.35 micron absolute filter

Are you using the JG fitting ? so it dont suck in air (they dont need lubrication)

Pumpy

 

[cliffo]

Cliffo ,

if you are getting air bubbles, I take it you are bleeding the air out again if there is any more build up of air in the filter .

I use the one micron absolute USA filter exactly as this http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=723

What micron are you using I have not tried it with a 0.35 micron absolute filter

Are you using the JG fitting ? so it dont suck in air (they dont need lubrication)

Pumpy

Pumpy,

I'm using the same filter as you, JG fittings and bleed the air out but it does not seem to get the flow going again.

I just finished running 20L of water through the system as a test and it handled that without any bubbles at all, then again it was just water so not much to filter.

I'm going to pull the unit apart then put all the bits back together and give it another go.

Fingers crossed that will work. Other than that the only thing I can think is I do need a new filter.

Will report back later today on thel atest attempt.

TB - I agree with Pumpy re not needing to lube the line going into the JG fittings

cliffo

 

[Ross]

Cliffo,

To me, it sounds like either trapped air or CO2 coming out of solution, which is then rising to the top, traveling up your inline & restricting the flow.
Once you have purged your canister via the relief valve, simply turn your filter canister upside down, so any gas will rise to the bottom of the filter unit, away from the connectors - this should solve your problem.
We are currently designing a new set up with a sturdy base, thet will run in this configuration, making the unit more stable (lines at base of unit) while reducing the risk of oxidisation.

Cheers Ross

 

[Ross]

I'm going to get a thingy to cut my lines more squarely and cleanly, and next time I filter, maybe put a dab of keg sealant on the end of the lines where they go into the JG fittings. Perhaps you could try that as well? When we are sure that all our fitting are sealing properly, then I suppose we will both need to go looking for other answers

Thirsty

Thirsty,

It won't be leaking fittings - if they were leaking you'd be getting beer everywhere. The fittings are designed to handle huge pressures without leaking & the lines should not be greased.

Cheers Ross

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Thirsty,

It won't be leaking fittings - if they were leaking you'd be getting beer everywhere. The fittings are designed to handle huge pressures without leaking & the lines should not be greased.

Cheers Ross

I agree, the design of the JG fittings actually seal tighter when subject to increasing internal pressure; but I'm talking about sealing against vacuum not internal pressure trying to escape, and the JG fittings handle the two different things in a different way...

Not having the ends cut neatly square shouldn't really effect the fittings ability to deal with internal pressure trying to escape... not so with the fittings ability to deal with a vacuum. And if the system is in a state of reduced pressure due to the liquid weight of a running syphon.... then it could be in a state of (admittedly slight) vacuum

In my instance, I suspect the filter housing leaking more than the JG fittings, but the JG fittings are by no means foolproof (I'm a fool thats made them leak) and especially under a vacuum, there is indeed a chance that one of them could let in air if its not put together properly.

Lube - nothing in the design of a JG fitting suggests to me that lube could possibly hurt, and seeing as in the end its just a tube shoved in a tight fitting O'ring.. it might help. They aren't magic and lube does tend to help most O'ring solutions.

The escaped C02 things is pretty reasonable... but you'd think it would be happening to most people who filter via gravity, and it doesn't seem to be, apart from that Cliffo, if you can work out how bubbles are magically appearing in a line who's beginning is under 10 or so litres of liquid, then the most logical place to start looking for the source would be the connections, or a hole in the line.

 

[Screwtop]

Going to try the gravity method. How does everyone connect from the fermenter to the filter. I saw Pumpy's stainless steel bushes with the JG fittings screwed in, but what about a tap. To use the system without a tap you would need to have it all connected then rack to the fermenter.

Pumpy, do you have all of your fermenters fitted with the bushes? Do you use a tap on a short length of line on each one? Where did you source the SS bushes?

I bought some fittings and a SS valve, but it all looks far to vulnerable, sticks out of the bottom of the fermenter, plus costly to fit to all of my fermenters. Thought about having one fermenter fitted out in this way to rack to before filtering, but this is adding more steps to a simple process, more cleaning and time.

Screwy

 

[Ross]

I agree, the design of the JG fittings actually seal tighter when subject to increasing internal pressure; but I'm talking about sealing against vacuum not internal pressure trying to escape, and the JG fittings handle the two different things in a different way...

Not having the ends cut neatly square shouldn't really effect the fittings ability to deal with internal pressure trying to escape... not so with the fittings ability to deal with a vacuum. And if the system is in a state of reduced pressure due to the liquid weight of a running syphon.... then it could be in a state of (admittedly slight) vacuum

In my instance, I suspect the filter housing leaking more than the JG fittings, but the JG fittings are by no means foolproof (I'm a fool thats made them leak) and especially under a vacuum, there is indeed a chance that one of them could let in air if its not put together properly.

Lube - nothing in the design of a JG fitting suggests to me that lube could possibly hurt, and seeing as in the end its just a tube shoved in a tight fitting O'ring.. it might help. They aren't magic and lube does tend to help most O'ring solutions.

The escaped C02 things is pretty reasonable... but you'd think it would be happening to most people who filter via gravity, and it doesn't seem to be, apart from that Cliffo, if you can work out how bubbles are magically appearing in a line who's beginning is under 10 or so litres of liquid, then the most logical place to start looking for the source would be the connections, or a hole in the line.

Thirsty, I'd be amazed if it's a leak, the only negative pressure with a syphon is above fermenter level & that's easily sorted by having a continuous line; the rest of the system including the filter is under positve pressure. Also, Cliffo says his system is the same as Pumpy's, & that comes out the fermenter tap from memory, so no negative pressures at all.

While the fermenter is full there is enough head pressure to keep the CO2 out the lines, as the volume drops the CO2 gets the upper hand. Also, any CO2 coming out of solution is all collecting at the top of the unit, again increasing the chance of the CO2 gaining the upper hand as the beer filtering rate slows due to the cartridge clogging up.

There are not that many people gravity filtering yet, so results will be very thin on the ground. Different fermentation regimes like warming the beer before chilling phase are going to have an effect on amount of CO2 dissolved etc. What yeast you are using, how long you leave your beer to clear, will all also affect flow rates & abillity to filter purely under gravity. I've filtered many beers where the gravity method will not work; the cartridge has slowly clogged & needed increasing pressures up to 100kpa to get any flow, so Cliffos problem may be purely that as well.

cheers Ross

 

[cliffo]

Going to try the gravity method. How does everyone connect from the fermenter to the filter. I saw Pumpy's stainless steel bushes with the JG fittings screwed in, but what about a tap. To use the system without a tap you would need to have it all connected then rack to the fermenter.

Pumpy, do you have all of your fermenters fitted with the bushes? Do you use a tap on a short length of line on each one? Where did you source the SS bushes?

I bought some fittings and a SS valve, but it all looks far to vulnerable, sticks out of the bottom of the fermenter, plus costly to fit to all of my fermenters. Thought about having one fermenter fitted out in this way to rack to before filtering, but this is adding more steps to a simple process, more cleaning and time.

Screwy

Screwy,

I'm using a 3/4" to 1/4" plastic bush with plastic ball valve screwed into that and then a JG straight adapter screwed into the BV with a JG stem elbow into that (all available from Ross).

This allows me to filter direct from primary plus makes it a breeze to take hydro samples along the way.

Probably cost about $27 for this setup but you could do away with the stem elbow which would bring it back to near $20.

If you didn't want to do this to all your fermenters I guess you could have one of these attached to one fermenter or cube and simply rack your brews into it then filter.

cliffo

 

[Pumpy]

Going to try the gravity method. How does everyone connect from the fermenter to the filter. I saw Pumpy's stainless steel bushes with the JG fittings screwed in, but what about a tap. To use the system without a tap you would need to have it all connected then rack to the fermenter.

Pumpy, do you have all of your fermenters fitted with the bushes? Do you use a tap on a short length of line on each one? Where did you source the SS bushes?

I bought some fittings and a SS valve, but it all looks far to vulnerable, sticks out of the bottom of the fermenter, plus costly to fit to all of my fermenters. Thought about having one fermenter fitted out in this way to rack to before filtering, but this is adding more steps to a simple process, more cleaning and time.

Screwy

This is the same fitting in plastic http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=722

, I got the SS ones from the Blackwoods catalogue

all my fermenters are fitted with the bushes and a tap . In the pic it show the Bush and a tap with the grey fitting converts this tap from 3/8 OD to 5/16mm OD(beer line)

The pipe between the tap is 3/8 OD