The New Unique Australian Beer

[jayse]

Jayse, I really enjoyed reading that. It seems you've put into words ideas that I've been having about the beers I'd like to make without even knowing how to ask the right questions about how I can get there. That probably makes no sense. I went on a little expedition to Uncle Dan's and First choice earlier tonight hunting beers I've never had before. But I do have one or two criticisms, if you'll forgive me.

The first is I can imagine other people reading that and feeling the same as I did but thinking about completely different beers. It seems more a "vibe" than a guideline. I'm not sure this idea is something that can be tied down by a definition but if one is to attempt surely it must take a slightly harder line?

The second is much smaller - is JS Hop Thief a good reference since it only exists as 3 vastly different releases? Although I do agree it fits completely in spirit but the spirit of something is indefinable, right?

Lol reminded me of The Castle 'its the vibe of the thing' :lol:
Glad you enjoyed it and I am getting somewhere.

With the three different hop thiefs I think all three fit perfectly, yes theres difference in each but the style has room for brewer interpretations and as such has some breadth to play with, many styles do have this room to move so to speak.

 

[Tony]

Great stuff Jayse............. love the guidelines!

I think back on a lot of the recipes i have looked at in the what are you brewing threads and a lot of them would fit this.

knock up beers using whats around...... and more so lately, aussie and NZ hops.

Its also good to see people saying they are experimenting with POR and not just flooding everything with cascade and amarillo.

As you say..... price and availability!

cheers

 

[chappo1970]

Fark me Jayse it took some probing and a little prodding but we finally got it out of ya mate! I love it! I NOW think we are getting somewhere, no? Now tell me this wasn't worth a while discusssion?

Tony I'm so glad you and other have chimed in. It's your experience and knowledge that will carry this from the obscure to reality.

Please lets keep this going in a constructive manner.

Cheers and beers

Chappo

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Yeap your right there and my agenda so to speak isn't the same as most people posting in this thread, I am enjoying the banter about this new invented style but like you said my position is a little bit different too most on the subject such as maybe I am looking at proposing a campaign to include such beer that is already here.

I put some guidelines/discriptors together I'll post in a sec.

I narrowed the style a little bit more then all that in this draft but agree its a broad style.
have a read of this is anyone could be bothered, its just some thoughts on what i think these beers are, feel free to add to it, take from it or just tell me if i am imagining things.

--- big snip --

Nice - so now we get two conversations for the price of one... I like it

I think you have done a pretty damn good job of defining a style - it keeps very much with your notion of a "new world" category - but puts a twist in it to make it a little "Australian"

I reckon that's a great tack to take if the object of the game is actually to fill a gap in the BJCP styles. An overarching style called "New world Beers" that can include variations on the general theme of a pale ale; brewed with reference to local conditions and tastes - any beer that ends up emerging from the pack that proves so popular and distinct that it clearly deserve it. Can be promoted to an individual style definition.

top work.

TB

Haysie -

Fosters Lager

Malt - 100% BB pale malt
Sugar - a 50/50 (ish) mixture of sucrose syrups (from Australian cane) and Glucose syrups (although they are mostly maltose) from Australian wheat. You will want 10-15% by weight if you are using dry sugars instead of syrups
Hops - either use iso hop made by fosters at the Abbotsford plant from (mostly) superpride; or bitter to around 20 IBUs with POR or superpride. No aroma or flavour additions.
Yeast - Fosters uses a propriety yeast developed by them a long time ago specifically to cope with local temperature conditions and the local palate. And of course to meet commercial requirements for speedy fermentations. It isn't a generally available thing. I would use Californian Lager yeast as it displays many of the same properties and its flavour profile isn't vastly different. Better in my book.

Not a beer I am a big fan of - but certainly Aussie by circumstance and design.

 

[jayse]

Cheers Tony, Chappo and Thirsty boy,

Yeap enjoyed this thread and to be honest I am not much of a debater of arguements to clearly get my point across but I think put into the style guidelines format I have sumed up my thoughts. I don't want it taken as gospel though simply by being the person who is shouting the loudest.

 

[Bribie G]

T.B. that Fosters 'recipe'

Sounds not unlike the BB Pale / Rice / Superpride/ sugar brew that I made to try and recapture the Carlton Draught that was around when I first arrived in Australia in the 70s. I'll ply Chappo et al with a couple at the case swap and get some third party critique.

I like the sound of the Californian yeast, I made two identical versions with w 34/70 (way Euro with a slight sulphur 'snatch') and Mauri Lager (hmm a bit neutral) so will try the Californian.

Edit:

T.B. we often see the 30% sugar thing bandied about, but what does that actually mean, does it mean that for every 66k of malt grain they use 33k of sugar, or does it mean that 30% of the GRAVITY comes from the sugar, which of course is a totally different thing ?

 

[Josh]

That made for great reading Jayse. I think the guideline you posted summed up your argument nicely. While I don't think it was the intention of the OP, I think this might wind up being the direction of the thread.

Sounds like a few ales I've brewed recently. My Rakau/Galaxy Pale Ale didn't last very long in the keg on a cricket tour.

So is there a comp out there willing to have a crack at judging this style? I'd send one away.

 

[chappo1970]

...While I don't think it was the intention of the OP, I think this might wind up being the direction of the thread...

Oi! I resemble that remark Josh!

 

[Thirsty Boy]

T.B. that Fosters 'recipe'

Sounds not unlike the BB Pale / Rice / Superpride/ sugar brew that I made to try and recapture the Carlton Draught that was around when I first arrived in Australia in the 70s. I'll ply Chappo et al with a couple at the case swap and get some third party critique.

I like the sound of the Californian yeast, I made two identical versions with w 34/70 (way Euro with a slight sulphur 'snatch') and Mauri Lager (hmm a bit neutral) so will try the Californian.

Edit:

T.B. we often see the 30% sugar thing bandied about, but what does that actually mean, does it mean that for every 66k of malt grain they use 33k of sugar, or does it mean that 30% of the GRAVITY comes from the sugar, which of course is a totally different thing ?

I dont actually know - the 30% or half the time 50% figures I see bandied about the place seem to have been plucked out of the air at random by people who wouldn't know. The different beers use different proportions of sugars and different mixes of various types of sugars - hell, some of the beers use no sugars at all and are all malt. Its also hard to say for sure because the brewery doesn't use dry sugar - it uses syrups and it brews at high gravity. So when I say use 10-15% by weight of dry sugar - I came up with that because I know the PG, grain bill, kettle volumes and mash efficiency for Fosters, and I basically shoved those figures into pro-mash and added sucrose till it all added up. I make 10-15% by dry weight of cane sugar - to be 15-22% as a percentage of the fermentables. Its not exact by any means.. but it isn't a million miles off either.

This is a bit OT here so I will leave it at that. If you want any more info shoot me a PM and I will be happy to share anything that I dont think is a desperate company secret.

TB

 

[Bribie G]

:icon_offtopic: T.B. no that sounds like a workable sort of figure, I've not been adding more than around 500g to a 'commercial clone' brew and often less, say 300g so that's a good ballpark without ripping the guts out of the body of the beer. The use of the cane sugar is more an acknowledgement of the 'style' of a mainstream brew than an attempt to get alcohol on the cheap othewise I would be doing K n K. And obviously an attempt at something like a premium Cascade would be AG.
Cheers.

 

[Scruffy]

Quick quiz:
England's Unique beer is:
Germany's Unique beer is:
Belgium's Unique beer is:

any number of facetious remarks like ...warm, hahaha...; ahem. Delivered by an efficient transport infrastructure. Enjoyed by all Belgians. Can't be brewed anywhere else (although in Europe they're introducing some daft laws that say Champagne can only be called Champagne if it comes from Champagne, I digress...)

Speaking as a crass and naive Pom, I think Australia is a very big country with lots of people stuck on different edges all brought up on cold fizzy 'beer'. Delve a little into the regional variation of each of the above countries (OK, you could fit Belgium on a postcard), and then apply the same science to a vast country still growing in it's cultural diversity, maybe ask the same question of Australia's Unique cuisine...
I don't believe for a minute Fosters and the others will continue as we know them over the next few years - Interesting times, Little creatures is now Lion Nathan and I believe Matilda Bay is Fosters (they must be doing something right), I think Blue Tongue is up and coming 'mainstream' (i might be wrong...)
The revolution has already started, and I think there's a pattern forming... Take the best Ideas from around the world, and make them better...

Beesting (Barossa Valley Brewing, SA)
Flavoursome bottle-fermented ale made with Riverland honey that neatly juggles yeasty notes with hints of orange-laced honey and a lively hop bitterness.

Blonde (St Peters Brewery, Sydney)
Easy-drinking, wheat-based ale that appeals to mainstream tastes; brewer Matt Donelan is clearly more interested in winning over punters than winning awards.

Bluetongue Pilsner (Bluetongue Brewery, Newcastle)
Citrus-tinged, aromatic hop notes set this apart from more European-influenced pilseners; forget the style guidelines and just enjoy this fine brew.

Bulldog Best Bitter (Wig & Pen Brewery/Tavern, Canberra)
Served on handpump at cellar temperature, this is as fine a session ale as you’ll find – layers of malt, a hint of caramel and a lip-smacking hop bitterness.

Burragorang Bock (Scharer’s Little Brewery, NSW)
Dark, strong and packed with sweet malty flavours (though slightly drier than it once used to be); always better enjoyed on tap.

Gage Roads Pure Malt Lager (Gage Roads Brewing Co, WA)
Full-bodied with bags of chewy malt balanced with a bold bitterness in the style of a northern German lager.

James Squire Porter (Malt Shovel Brewery, Sydney)
This dark brew has become more fruity and assertive of late, still based on a lovely mouthful of espresso, dark chocolate and Horlicks flavour notes.

Little Creatures Pale Ale (Little Creatures Brewing, WA)
Not for timid palates but hop-heads love the burst of distinctive grapefruit/citrus hop aromatics, rich flavour notes and generously bittered finish.

Matilda Bay Bohemian Pilsner (Matilda Bay Brewing, WA)
A classic Bohemian style pilsener with layers of luscious malt intertwined with a bristling bitter finish; manages to combine delicate complexity with solid sessionability.

Moo Brew Pale Ale (Moo Brew, Hobart)
A classy newcomer from Tasmania that nails the US-style pale ale style with upfront grapefruit aromatics and a mouthfilling balance of malt and hops in the palate.

Mountain Goat Hightail Ale (Mountain Goat Brewery, Melbourne)
With an elevated English hop character of late, this cloudy, amber ale is chock full with character, yet straightforward and true to style.

Paddy’s Amber Ale (Paddy’s Brewery, Sydney)
It’s a fair trek out to the Markets Hotel, Flemington but worth it to sample this house ale on tap; the upfront toffee notes are balanced with just enough bitterness.

Redoak Framboise Froment (Redoak Boutique Beer Caf, Sydney)
Pink beer may not be everyone’s cup of tea but this one’s made from real raspberries and offers a spectacularly fruity introduction to Redoak extensive range of house brews.

Schwartz Bier (Macquarie Hotel, Sydney)
German style black lager with chewy malt initially and pleasant roasty notes, followed by a clean, rounded finish.

Three Sheets (Lord Nelson Brewery Hotel, Sydney)
A fine session ale when it’s on song; hazy, amber-hued beer with solid malt and a well-hopped finish (due to be released in 330ml bottles from late September).

(List plagiarised from bits around the internet)

I'm guessing that rather than being known for a particular style, Australia will be known for brewing some of the best and diverse bevvies on the planet...

However one monster troll must be tossed off the bridge - From my research, a 50l keg costs about $160 - then the feds skim off about $50 in excise - could you guys run your business (like all of it, not just grains from Ross...) on that...

Carry on, I've had a few...

 

[warrenlw63]

I haven't read through this thoroughly but why don't you blokes come up with a basic set of parameters and make your own interpretations then organise a case-swap of sorts and mutually evaluate your efforts? I've partaken in similar projects with other brewers before and it always proves to be a valuable exercise.

To be honest if you just debate it and don't make and evaluate you're just the same as a bunch of blokes sitting around talking about what you'd do if you won the lottery. We've all had that conversation before.

If you already plan to do this I retract my idea.

Warren -

 

[KingPython]

Some ideas here are outrageous for the sake of being outrageous, I mean will it taste 'good'? Personally I think majority Pilsner, some wheat, some cane sugar syrup thing, coopers yeast fermented in the mid 20's and some supermarket\shopping centre-healthfood store available Australian spices would be the go. An Australian take on a farmhouse ale, which doesn't have the connotation of a saison as I said earlier.

 

[jonocarroll]

although in Europe they're introducing some daft laws that say Champagne can only be called Champagne if it comes from Champagne, I digress...

Sure, if by "introducing" you mean designating Appellation d'Origine Contrle in 1936, created and mandated by French laws in the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s, though even before that, controlled by virtue of legal protection as part of the Treaty of Madrid (1891). Then, yeah, it's being "introduced". <_<

Interesting times, Little creatures is now Lion Nathan and I believe Matilda Bay is Fosters (they must be doing something right)

Interesting indeed: Little Creatures is owned by Little World Beverages, "a publicly listed company, just over 40% owned by the giant Japanese-controlled beverages company Lion Nathan." ... "The company was launched in November 2000 by several ex-staff and shareholders of the Maitilda Bay Brewing Company after that company was bought by Carlton & United Beverages (CUB)." "CUB is a wholly owned subsidiary of Foster's Group." Any micro making enough money will be gobbled up by the big two sooner or later.

All I see from this thread is recipes for making (albeit, unique) beer with funky local ingredients. I'm not against it, and I'd probably even participate in a local brewing/tasting of such, but that's pretty far removed from 'creating a style' - about as much as a coffee/promite beer is 'creating the style of breakfast beers'.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

yeah, you can't be just popping out new styles that easily - next thing you know people will start shoving any old beer into a barrel for a while and demand a new category for wood aged beer......

It doesn't seem that hard really - look in the specialty ales section of the BJCP guidelines and alongside Australian Sparkling Ale and Czech dark lager as proto styles that might get "promoted" to full style status is Stike Alt ... a beer that is brewed by precisely one brewery in the world, has only ever been brewed by that one brewery and they only brew it twice a year....

 

[Bizier]

wild lime

You can foot the bill for that one Pete.

I think lilly pilly wouldn't go too bad, as it is a refreshing flavour.

 

[chappo1970]

I haven't read through this thoroughly but why don't you blokes come up with a basic set of parameters and make your own interpretations then organise a case-swap of sorts and mutually evaluate your efforts? I've partaken in similar projects with other brewers before and it always proves to be a valuable exercise.

To be honest if you just debate it and don't make and evaluate you're just the same as a bunch of blokes sitting around talking about what you'd do if you won the lottery. We've all had that conversation before.

If you already plan to do this I retract my idea.

Warren -

Totally 100% agree with ya Warren. There has been good discussion/debate but no resolution as yet.

yeah, you can't be just popping out new styles that easily - next thing you know people will start shoving any old beer into a barrel for a while and demand a new category for wood aged beer......

It doesn't seem that hard really - look in the specialty ales section of the BJCP guidelines and alongside Australian Sparkling Ale and Czech dark lager as proto styles that might get "promoted" to full style status is Stike Alt ... a beer that is brewed by precisely one brewery in the world, has only ever been brewed by that one brewery and they only brew it twice a year....

TB funny you should mention this and beat me to the punch. I was reading the AABC style guidelines this morning on the way to work. Category 18 in particular 18.7 Other Speciality is definitely the place to start. It states:

"This category can also be used as an "incubator" for any minor world beer style (other than Belgiuns) for which there is currently no AABA category. If sufficient interest exists, some of the minor style might be promoted to full styles in the future."

So there's the answer guys to both problems, no? AABC is the deadline and the comp will be independantly Judged. I'm sure we could stuff the style guideline under the noses of the Judges for their input and interpretation.

Now all we need to do is agree on a style guideline use it to produce our interpretation (recipes) of that guideline, enter them into the comp and let the cards fall where they may. I plan to make it to this AABC so that could be the meeting point for a case swap and cross reference to refine the style even further.

2c FWIW?

CHappo

 

[Fourstar]

Good point there Chappo, even if there is not a commercial example that compares from what eventuates, im sure anything is possible.

American Brown ale made it without commercial help so why not a 'uniquely Aussie beer?!?!

 

[chappo1970]

Dead right 4star. American Brown was originated by American Homebrewers. Can't see why we can't have a crack at something simular?

 

[Millet Man]

Actually on that note, are there any unique Australian grains out there?

I bought some Alpine Rice a while ago, it is a native Australian seed that is similar to rice and gluten free, was going to make a native Australian gluten free beer but never got around to it...maybe it was the fact it cost close to $25 to get 1 kg delivered that put me off.

As others have mentioned, if you want to make a new style of beer that is not in the "guidelines" then do it and enter it as specialty/other and see how it goes - that's what the category is for. If it catches on and becomes popular then it's time to ask the question of it deserving it's own style category.

Cheers, Andrew.