The NEIPA thread

[RygorX]

Hey all,
I've dabbled in the NEIPA journey with mixed results.
I've been struggling getting some deep flavour with my Whirlpool to Dry hop ratios.
Last batch (23L) was around 120g Whirlpool to 240g Dry hop

Interested to hear how you guys approach this ?

 

[Company of one]

Hey guys, As there has been a bit of discussion of late about this style I thought I'd put up a recipe that has worked for me.
I put this together using information I gleaned from BYO magazine where they broke down some of the mystery surrounding what they thought contributed different aspects of haze development in this style.

The main focus from what I gathered was on the different hop additions at stages of boil and fermentation due to their oil composition, quite informative and written in an easy to understand way. This isn't their recipe but my take from the information they provided, designed for a citrus flavor profile.

Just note that if anyone uses this that you will need to scale the grain bill to suit your equipment efficiency, mine was low on this recipe probably due to being a thick mash, I mashed in with 20ltrs of strike water and 11.3ltrs of sparge water, all being RO water with salts to style.

Hope this helps anyone

 

[Dan Pratt]

Hey all,
I've dabbled in the NEIPA journey with mixed results.
I've been struggling getting some deep flavour with my Whirlpool to Dry hop ratios.
Last batch (23L) was around 120g Whirlpool to 240g Dry hop

Interested to hear how you guys approach this ?

Are you adjusting the water profile also, or just plain tap water?

What you can try for whirlpool, is drop the temp with an IC to <80c and then add those hops for a 10min whirlpool.

Plus the dry hops, are you adding these at high krausen and then again post ferment?

which hops are you using?

 

[goatchop41]

Maybe the temp was not high enough to drive those esters out, ferment at 19c so maybe. But to say they are decent, is an understatement, lol.

I enjoyed the Gigayeast Vermont yeast the most when I pushed it up to 21-22oC. I felt that at those temps it expressed a lot more of the peach esters that it is known for, which also really complimented the stonefruit flavours from the hops.

Dry hopping added at time of pitching, not yet. have you found its better for that bio transformation or just doing it becuase the lid is open?

I found that it gave me the exact same results as doing a DH during high krausen. I have stuck with doing it that way because it just makes things easier - I don't have to worry about monitoring the fermentation and trying to time the DH for a specific time. I just throw them in with the yeast, then come back once fermentation is tailing off and throw the second DH in.
It's really just for simplicity!

 

[devoutharpist]

Some more things i have been thinking about.

Has anyone ever had issues with diacetyl and hop creep? My last one did... but i assume that was due to my fridge breaking early in the fermentation stage. Does anyone actively give the ferment a diacetyl rest after all of the hops have been added?

And... has anyone read that new Scott Janish book? I prefer my brewing books (or any reference books) in hard copy and i'm not really keen to pay the price that US amazon sets

 

[RygorX]

Are you adjusting the water profile also, or just plain tap water?

What you can try for whirlpool, is drop the temp with an IC to <80c and then add those hops for a 10min whirlpool.

Plus the dry hops, are you adding these at high krausen and then again post ferment?

which hops are you using?

Hi yep treat my water, but the dry hops are post krausen so thats definitely something to look at.
Adding hops at krausen ive not had great success... as the yest seem to encapsulate the hops and drop out not leaving much impact.

Last batch whirlpool hops was at 95c so will try 85c (is 10 mins enough to extract everything ?)


Hops = Citra Centennial, Nelson, Sabro
As far as proportions whirlpool vs dry hop my proportions look ok ?

 

[hoppy2B]

Might give them a go, they have been pretty responsive and helpful in the past. I do actually have four rhizomes about to hit their third season, but none of them are overly appropriate for the style (and i had a horrible year last year, not sure what it was but i had about half the harvest of the year before).[/QUOTE]

Hops need lots of water especially in the heat. They will get through temperatures in the mid 40's without flinching if they have enough water, but will suffer and lose crop if under watered.

What varieties are you growing? My favourite has been "Victoria" for fruity flavours. I have found the trick for Vic is to dry it for a number of weeks to get any off flavours out of it.

A new variety from W.A. that I grew for the first time last year is "Kracanup", which has an awesome fruity aroma but which I haven't brewed with yet but plan to soon. If it tastes anything like its aroma, it will be a hop that home growers will go mental for. The cones are just as big as the cones on Victoria.

 

[goatchop41]

Has anyone ever had issues with diacetyl and hop creep? My last one did... but i assume that was due to my fridge breaking early in the fermentation stage. Does anyone actively give the ferment a diacetyl rest after all of the hops have been added?

Hopefully the diacetyl issue can be simply solved by having a good fermentation profile. Ramping the temp late in fermentation and keeping it up at a good range when adding the dry hop should keep the yeast active enough that they will sort that out.
I can't comment on the hop creep, as I only keg, so it's not something that I get concerned about

 

[devoutharpist]

What varieties are you growing? My favourite has been "Victoria" for fruity flavours. I have found the trick for Vic is to dry it for a number of weeks to get any off flavours out of it.

I've got some victoria, tried that in an IPA but basically had hardly any flavour despite dumping in a whole bunch of flowers, so i will remember that trick. I've also got red earth, chinook and cascade. I've generally found it hard to use home grown stuff as it doesnt give me the bitterness or flavour that i want when brewing something like an IPA (using fresh picked or dried). At least the vines look nice haha.

So i think for my next (NE)IPA i brew i might try for that Julius clone that seems pretty popular, except i can't seem to find Apollo anywhere so i'll have to sub that. The lack of flaked stuff appeals to me, given some of the discussions in this thread already. And i guess it is considered one of the OGs of the style.

 

[hoppy2B]

I've got some victoria, tried that in an IPA but basically had hardly any flavour despite dumping in a whole bunch of flowers, so i will remember that trick. I've also got red earth, chinook and cascade. I've generally found it hard to use home grown stuff as it doesnt give me the bitterness or flavour that i want when brewing something like an IPA (using fresh picked or dried). At least the vines look nice haha.

So i think for my next (NE)IPA i brew i might try for that Julius clone that seems pretty popular, except i can't seem to find Apollo anywhere so i'll have to sub that. The lack of flaked stuff appeals to me, given some of the discussions in this thread already. And i guess it is considered one of the OGs of the style.

Wow, I'm surprised that you don't get much flavour from Victoria. Some people complain about it having off flavours described as rotten cabbage. I find the beer needs about 6 to 8 weeks of ageing to start drinking well. With the extra drying of the cones there is less of the off flavour and the beer shouldn't need as much ageing. BelgraveBrewer says he uses it as a wet hop. I think you need a really light bodied beer to get the best out of it.

I put the cones through a blender and then sift the meal through an ordinary sieve with 1 mm holes which I got at Kmart. I get the leafy volume down to half, but retain virtually all the lupulin. That means I can get more hops into the brew comfortably and breaking up the lupulin glands helps to release the flavour from the cones.

Are you putting your cones through a blender just prior to use? Is it possible you don't have the right Victoria?

 

[Company of one]

Wow, I'm surprised that you don't get much flavour from Victoria. Some people complain about it having off flavours described as rotten cabbage. I find the beer needs about 6 to 8 weeks of ageing to start drinking well. With the extra drying of the cones there is less of the off flavour and the beer shouldn't need as much ageing. BelgraveBrewer says he uses it as a wet hop. I think you need a really light bodied beer to get the best out of it.

I put the cones through a blender and then sift the meal through an ordinary sieve with 1 mm holes which I got at Kmart. I get the leafy volume down to half, but retain virtually all the lupulin. That means I can get more hops into the brew comfortably and breaking up the lupulin glands helps to release the flavour from the cones.

Are you putting your cones through a blender just prior to use? Is it possible you don't have the right Victoria?

Interesting method, will try
I'm another home grower that is finding vibrant hop aromas hard to come by and tend to use my home grown as a bittering addition.
cheers

 

[Schikitar]

So i think for my next (NE)IPA i brew i might try for that Julius clone that seems pretty popular

Cool, I've looked at that recipe before , some great takeaways from it, let us know how you go with it!

The recipe I'm developing is based off of this find on Reddit - https://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/bbfjyb/double_neipa_recipe_perfected/ - I'm scaling down from a double though, don't need that much ABV..

 

[hoppy2B]

Interesting method, will try
I'm another home grower that is finding vibrant hop aromas hard to come by and tend to use my home grown as a bittering addition.
cheers

One thought I have on that as well, is that maybe people are picking their hops too early before they are fully ripe.

 

[devoutharpist]

I put the cones through a blender and then sift the meal through an ordinary sieve with 1 mm holes which I got at Kmart. I get the leafy volume down to half, but retain virtually all the lupulin. That means I can get more hops into the brew comfortably and breaking up the lupulin glands helps to release the flavour from the cones.

Are you putting your cones through a blender just prior to use? Is it possible you don't have the right Victoria?

Perhaps this is where i am going wrong, do you dry and then blend? I just dried whole cones and chucked em in. That said, i am only going on the word of the dude from gumtree so they might not be. They smell pretty good though.

One thought I have on that as well, is that maybe people are picking their hops too early before they are fully ripe.

I feel like maybe i am picking them too late tbh, if that is possible? Any tips for honing in on maximum freshness?

 

[devoutharpist]

Cool, I've looked at that recipe before , some great takeaways from it, let us know how you go with it!

The recipe I'm developing is based off of this find on Reddit - https://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/bbfjyb/double_neipa_recipe_perfected/ - I'm scaling down from a double though, don't need that much ABV..

Will do, my plan is to update this thread when i give my next NEIPA a go. Just need to clear up some keg space first... I reckon i would go amarillo instead of the apollo in that recipe though (given that i cant get apollo). Would like to try something like Melba too, but haven't seen that anywhere.

I also saw that reddit recipe in my searches, looks pretty solid tbh. I think that guy's finished out at like 9% or something heavy?

 

[hoppy2B]

Perhaps this is where i am going wrong, do you dry and then blend? I just dried whole cones and chucked em in. That said, i am only going on the word of the dude from gumtree so they might not be. They smell pretty good though.



I feel like maybe i am picking them too late tbh, if that is possible? Any tips for honing in on maximum freshness?

Don't know if there is any way to ensure maximum freshness. For flavour I find they don't need to be super fresh. They need extra drying to reduce likelihood of off flavours. IBUs seem to drop before flavour does for me in storage. I put them through the blender just before chucking them into the brew.

It's pretty hard to pick them too late. I leave them on the bines as long as possible within reason. Obviously you don't want the cones getting too brown.

A handful of freshly picked from the bine Victoria cones squeezed in the hand will have an aroma of peach.

 

[Simon N]

Anyone have luck bottling these and avoiding oxidation? I find the colour turns within about 4 weeks in the bottle

 

[Ferg]

Is there any difference in mouthfeel etc for using malted oats? Too bad my LHBS doesn't appear to stock them

Sorry for the late reply. No I can't say I've noticed any difference in mouthfeel. I reckon a lot of that comes from the water chemistry. I got my malted oats from beerco along with the gy54 yeast which I think works best. This one has stayed hazy from start to finish if that floats your boat.
Another thing that works really well is cryo keg hops. Massive punchy flavours and aromas.

 

[Ferg]

I brewed this beer early to mid May, photo taken today. I would probably mash a bit higher next time and also go with a 60min of the Amarillo to reduce the whirlpool quantity. Otherwise I'm pretty happy with it. I'm guessing you could probably reduce the dry hop somewhat and still have a similar beer. I bought those hops by the kilo at a really good price so wasn't as concerned.

 

[damohb]

First attempt at an oat cream ipa today, guess it falls under this thread. 55% pilsner, 20% malted oats, 15% flaked oats, 5% lactose and 5% toffee/carafoam. Was aiming for 1.071 but only hit 1.068, which I guess wasn't too bad for 35% oats, I probably lost a bit through my crush of the malted oats?... Samples weren't pretty but it doesn't look too bad in the fermenter, aiming for that glowing yellow in the glass (~8 EBC). RO water adjusted for approx 60 Ca, 12 Mg, 60 Na, 150 Cl, 100 SO4. WLP066 yeast, 30 IBUs of Columbus at FWH, 30 min hopstand with 20g Columbus, 30g Mosaic, and 80g Citra, dropped from 74 C to around 60 C over the 30 minutes. Thinking either single or double dryhop of 3:1 citra:mosaic, and somewhere between 10-15g/L total...