The Evolution Of Vb

[Feldon]

Been following the current thread 'VB Hop Schedule Please' which began by asking what hopping should be applied to a proposed VB clone.

Reaction to the original post caused a flurry of interest and responses have generally taken two paths - answers to the posed question, and arguments about whether brewing commercial "megaswill" like VB is a waste of time, talent and taste, and sundry other aspects relating to what has been called "shit beer".

It occurred to me that many of the respondents are possibly addressing these issues from different perspective based on there own exposure to the evolution of VB and other mainstream commercial beers.

I like many others came to home brew from the world of the commercial beers served at pubs and bottle shops - the accessible standard stuff that I bought because, well, everybody else did and it was readily available, in fact the only beer available. It was part of social culture and the people I drank with were more important than the taste of the beer providing it wasn't unpalatable. And I don't remember it being so.

But these beers have changed over time. In the days of the six o'clock swill (when pubs shut at 6pm) the rush to the bar by city office workers for a half-hour guzzle before catching the tram home was not because they were all alcoholics. It was good tasty beer that was looked forward to. Didn't Australian beers in the 60s and 70s have a good international reputation compared to other country's standard fare, and wasn't this the basis for CUB's success in taking local brands like Fosters Lager onto the world stage? (and today they are trying to do the same with VB?).

So can I pose the question : When one refers to VB do you think of the beer you can drink today, or if you are older, are your thoughts influenced by how it tasted back 'then' (whenever that was). And if you think yesterday's VB and Carlton Draught and XXXX etc etc was better than today's, what elements make the difference.

Would appreciate posters' views, especially those with experience or knowledge of brewery practices over time, but also younger posters whose opinion of modern VB would also be interesting. Thanks.

 

[Bribie G]

In the mid 70s I lived in Cardiff Wales, I was one of the founding members of CAMRA and I loved Brains SA, Felinfoel, Wadworths etc. However I also had a taste for good lagers, particularly Pilsner Urquell, direct imported Carlsberg and any German beer I could get my hands on. The UK breweries were also starting to put out some strong BUL lagers such as Stella and Lamot (deceased) and they were excellent beers not to be confused with the appalling 3% versions of Harp, Carling etc.

About that time Fosters was being imported due to the massive Australian diaspora (mostly caused by the Vietnam draft dodge but also it was a good career step to head for the UK as a lot of head offices were still there). The importers also started to bring in other brands and a couple of off licences in Cardiff started to specialise in Aussie beers - all canned in those days and some in the 26 oz oil cans. I remember drinking Fosters, Cascade Pale Ale, Tooths KB, Reschs DA and XXXX

I had a fairly developed beer palate as stated, and I can tell you that those beers more than held their own with stronger Euro and UK beers. They were robust with a fragrant hoppiness. A couple of years later I moved to Australia to Bundaberg. There were only two beers on tap. Yes just two. XXXX which you bought from the red pubs, and Carlton from the blue pubs. Bottle shops had a fair range of packaged beer. There was no lite or mid beer. I loved the Carlton - it was a very pale beer compared to XXXX and had a refreshing bitterness - the two beers were quite different, XXXX being less hoppy and was darker and a tad sweeter. The Carlton was brewed at the old Bulimba brewery in Fortitude Valley. In the 1980s Bernie Power opened a brewery at Yatala and made standout beers, rich and hoppy compared to XXXX including some brands such as Powers Red, a Vienna style. Keep the name Powers in mind, this is going somewhere

I stopped drinking from the early 1990s and took up again in 2001. The beer scene had changed immensely, rows of fonts in the pubs and lots of new brands - all of which seemed to be chasing each other to the bottom, with abominations like Sterling Lager and Thirsty Dog Wheat beer (the only beer that has actually made me throw up in a car park after three stubbies). Strengths were being reduced and huge amalgamations into the big 2.

I saw that Powers Bitter was still going but Fosters had taken over Yatala, sold the FV site for a squillion and built massive apartment complex - they probably got Yatala for free at the end of the day. I couldn't believe how appalling they had made Powers, virtually no flavour and maybe 60% sugar. No hop I could discern. Shortly afterwards it was discontinued due to lack of sales. Well surprise surprise. They did the same with Cairns Draught, I remember drinking it in the early 80s but by the time I got back to Cairns in 2002 I must have had about the last schooner of Cairns Draught but they had done a Powers on it and it was piss.

All the main brands seemed to have lost hop and malt character - one of the beers I still don't mind is Melbourne Bitter. I think they have cheapened the recipes and are sneakingly doing a Powers with the main brands - probably with the idea of promoting mid beers. And would the duopoly do such a thing? Well they have done it with the likes of Powers - I seriously think they will eventually kill off XXXX heavy and replace it with the nasty nasty nasty Toohey's New - and as we know they are reducing the strengths of the heavies year after year and also promoting blonde light lo carb crap.

I don't think my tastbuds are wearing out because German, Czech and UK beers taste as good to me as they always did.
Hopefully the parallel imports by coles and Woolies will make them sit up and take notice, and maybe look at putting some flavour back.

 

[roo_dr]

... a couple of off licences in Cardiff started to specialise in Aussie beers ...

Not the Fosters Shop on Crwys Road by any chance? They specialise in German beer now, but still the place to get great imported beer!

 

[Bribie G]

Not the Fosters Shop on Crwys Road by any chance? They specialise in German beer now, but still the place to get great imported beer!

No long before that. The one I frequented was in Canton on Cowbridge Rd, the whole block seems to have been demolished for wanky apartment blocks.

 

[Steve@PMF82]

That was interesting Bribie, especially seeing as i am only 29 so i have no comparisons to draw on.

Why has time travel not been invented yet?

 

[Effect]

That was interesting Bribie, especially seeing as i am only 29 so i have no comparisons to draw on.

Why has time travel not been invented yet?

Didn't you see that heineken ad?

 

[mje1980]

Interesting post bribie, i thought aussie beers had always been adjunct filled fizzy yellow water. Great read, best thread i've read in a long time here.

 

[AlwayzLoozeCount]

Anyone drinking beer made by CUB, XXXX, Lion Nathan or any other brewer of that nature expecting to get anything other than a beverage that refreshes your thirst should just wake up to the fact that they are giving the majority of Australian consumers what they want.

I'm guilty as charged, my beer of choice when im at an establishment that is not my home is VB, mainly because I know it is the fastest moving beer sold on tap so at least I know its going to be "fresh"

My main grief is with how brain washed and shallow each generation is when it comes to beer. I have learned to go numb to it.

When I see adds for tooheys extra dry all I see is a bunch of dudes with gel in their hair listening to techno music at partys that would be cool for them to be seen at.

VB adds consist of some blokes covered in dirt getting out of big trucks with crappy clothes on proclaiming their thirst towards their prefered brand of beverage.

Go to your local pub and I promise if you did a census on what sort of person drinks what you would relise the power that addvertising has.

Australias beer culture is pretty much screwed.
Giants controll everything in our country and in the end we are all screwed.
support small buisness in your area, when they are gone its too late too say ohh but I liked that shop.

 

[Silo Ted]

Feldon, you touch on some very valid concepts. In a word, it's "loyalty". In the youthful days, a male of any recent generation will remember good times, easy living and a nice cold beer brand.

The adverts you see on TV aren't designed to ensnare a new market share through brand conversion. The often bold, brash statements made in these clips are intended to be a reinforcing of the allegiance to drinkers already drawn towards their brand. Not quite jingoism, but guys like the idea (and the juivenile connotations) of a big canoe. Catapulting an Elk through the sky. Or dancing down the street with a crew of wacky wavy inflatable arm flailing tube men.

I stopped drinking from the early 1990s and took up again in 2001. The beer scene had changed immensely, rows of fonts in the pubs and lots of new brands

Flash forward to 2011, and a popular local pub near to my house has a a great variety of glistening, glycol-frozen fonts, embodying the very allure of an ice cold schooner. A unique brand logo above each tap enticing the drinkers to enjoy the great aussie tradition of their choosing. Sadly, they all taste quite similarly terrible - with the exception of the Old.

Tooheys New
Toohey Old
Hahn Light
White Stag
VB
Carlton Draught
Hahn Super Dry
Resches
Tooheys Extra Dry
Heineken
XXXX Gold

Why has time travel not been invented yet?

Still too many missing monkeys to make it a trustworthy technology for the rest of us.

 

[Silo Ted]

Australias beer culture is pretty much screwed.

Don't know about that. There are quite a few Aussie micro upstarts that produce a damn fine beer, and there's adequate sales for them to keep making beer, and maintaining their business comfortably.

They weren't around 20 years ago.

 

[gregs]

I can remember drinking DA back in the late 70s it was for me like most of the beers of the day, just beer because I had no understanding of what went into the making of beer and I had no real beer palate to speak of. My beer palate has evolved over the years and is now at the point where I can taste the hop and malt profiles that went into the recipe, maybe not exactly but I have a fairly good idea of what went into it.

So only speaking for myself I can say that the beers of today, the so called megaswill beers have no real taste, and out of all the imports from the UK and Europe There would be only a hand full that Id drink again. As for the Australian small or craft beers, maybe a hand full that Id drink again.

So I guess out of the many, who knows how many beers Ive consumed over the years for one reason or another, I put in the I dont like category along side of the well marketed VB. I consider a very high percentage of beers today are crap, but thats only my opinion.

Nice story on the Australian brew industry Bribie.

 

[Housecat]

I can't really add too much about how Aussie beers have changed as I have never really had much of an allegiance to a brand, Coopers Pale is the beer I used to drink most of though.

However, I have had Crown here and in Malaysia and noticed a distinct difference and imho it tasted better, which adds to the question do 'they' bottle a different beer for the o/s market?

Having said that, I have tried 'new' beers as they come out, cold filtered, low carb etc, and have noticed the taste has changed for the worse from when they were first released. I couldn't say how as I didn't really have much of an appreciation of flavours in beers until the last year or so (thankyou AHB)

HC

 

[fcmcg]

I also remember that Fosters , bought out a VB Original beer , about 7 or 8 years ago...
I didn't mind that one , but it also makes me wonder why they did this...has VB really changed so much , that they needed to remind people of what it used to taste like ? It was also in 330ml bottles...but the same price as "normal" VB....$$$$$
Another interesting thing to note is that Fosters are in deep shit.They are in the process of breaking up their wine and beer divisions , back to two separate entities.Seems the amalgamation didn't go so well....I also wouldn't be surprised if a large multi-national make a play for them....
There is also the continual slipping , of sales , of VB....I can't remeber the figure now , but it seems that they have lost quite a bit of market share over the last 2 years....
Interestingly though , Coopers still only hold 5 % market share , with Fosters and Lion Nathan holding the most...
It does seem to me , though , the only way there will be a real change with beers , is when the tax dept give craft brewery's their tax breaks , to bring it into line with the MASSIVE benefits the wine industry get...
I just wonder , if this happens , will VB still exist...or will it have been replaced by another well marketed mega-swill beer ,brewed under licence lol
Cheers
Ferg

 

[Silo Ted]

There is also the continual slipping , of sales , of VB....I can't remeber the figure now , but it seems that they have lost quite a bit of market share over the last 2 years....

To the Fosters Group, the decline of the classic green icon means nothing financially, because theres an even chance that other beers in the stable are still being consumed by former VB'ers. Carlton Draught, Dry, Cold, Dry Fusion etc. The Cascade "Pure Tassie" range covers it for the greenie drinkers. Reschs is there. Redback, Beez Knees covers the 'art beerists', and Pure Blonde holds the key for fat guys who think they are drinking responsibly, but can't be botherered to exercise.

Fosters Group also act as the Australian brand distributors of such fancy international premium offerings like Leffe and Hoegaarden . So they still cash in on the thinking man's market.

When you co-own a marketshare with only one other competitor, it's always a rich profit stream. If VB faded into obscurity as a brand, it would be by the design of the Fosters Group's master plan, and not from any social junta.

 

[bradsbrew]

Is it just me or did Fourex taste better up until the early to mid eighties. When they were in the old style bottle like the ginger beer bottles?

 

[Bribie G]

Is it just me or did Fourex taste better up until the early to mid eighties. When they were in the old style bottle like the ginger beer bottles?

Not VB related, but an interesting thread would be "the evolution of XXXX". The Gold version 3.5% ABV is well known around Australia but a lot of interstaters aren't aware of the Queensland only version, XXXX "heavy" which is a 4.6% (previously around 5%) beer.
Lion have been playing shenanigans with the brand over the last decade or so. It is very hard to find north of Mackay, couldn't find any in Cairns for example but heaps of other Lion Brands particularly Tooheys.

They have been constantly reinventing the label - and it's never promoted on TV anymore.

The original label was along the lines of

Then they did a makeover and went for the black look until about 18 months ago

Then they decided to go the red look.


Interestingly they already had a red label "XXXX Original Draught" for SEQ only, which they discontinued about 18 months ago as well.


It was a darker, richer more malty XXXX with far less carbonation. An excellent quaffer during the winter and could stand a bit warmer. Even though it was in bottles it was never on tap despite the Draught moniker. I used to enjoy the beer but now it's gone - along with Carbine Stout.
I have little time for Kirin / Lion any more and actually feel that they are doing more damage to Aussie beer than Fosters. I expect that this will be the final makeover for XXXX heavy and that it will be dead in 5 years.


Edit: that red can has an obvious blooper on it - :wacko:

 

[Nick JD]

I bought a 6 pack of 500ml cans of Oetinger at Dans last week for waaay cheap.

Cheapest beer in the bottlo, Saaz, Pils and no adjuncts.

There's always a gem in the spoil. I don't really care what other people drink.

 

[Bribie G]

Nick head for any LL nowadays and they currently have three tallies 660ml of Henninger (Frankfurt??) for ten bucks. Personally I prefer it to Oettinger as it contains hops and not just "hopsextract"

 

[Nick JD]

Nick head for any LL nowadays and they currently have three tallies 660ml of Henninger (Frankfurt??) for ten bucks. Personally I prefer it to Oettinger as it contains hops and not just "hopsextract"

Sounds good - will try.

I can taste hops in Oettinger - they do a decent job on the extraction.

 

[bradsbrew]

Sorry for the derailing of the VB portion of this thread.

But I would love to see the old bottles and label back. Note the little throw down grenades wouldnt mind some of those for my strong ales.

Melbourne's got rain and Sydney's got yuppies,
Tassie got the chop and we got lucky,
Nobody does it like up here does it,
We love it up here,
We don't just like it, we love it!
We don't just like it, we love it!
We love it up here,
The people the places, the mates the faces,
The XXXX, yep, the beer up here, we love it up here!

Melbourne's got rain and Sydney's got yuppies,
Tassie got the chop and we got lucky,
Nobody does it like up here does it,
We love it up here,
We don't just like it, we love it!
We don't just like it, we love it!
We love it up here,
The people the places, the mates the faces,
The XXXX, yep, the beer up here, we love it up here!