The Cheese Thread

[Thirsty Boy]

I understand that calf rennet has much betterr shelf life than vege rennet..... and its not that the stuff stops working, its just that it loses potency and so you never know whether the amount you used is what you intended....might might still coagulate, but different recipes use differing amounts of rennet, presumably for a purpose. So if mine is only x% and i dont know what x is - how much is the right amount?

I dont like that sort of uncertainty in anything I do

Donburke: Is it the same as junket tablets?? Not by my understanding. I believe they are both more potent and made of a differing ratio of chymosin to pepsin than are junket tablets. Basing this off limited "internet information" though - so it could be hooey.

 

[Truman42]

Ive just been looking at a recipe for Camembert and one of the ingredients is a Camembert/mesophilic culture/ mould blend.

I assume this is the same thing as the roqueforti and flora danicum used in blue cheese but already blended together (and obviously suited to Camembert).
So would it be possible for me to use the flora Danica starter culture I already have to make a starter culture and add some Camembert cheese for the "Penicilium candidum" needed in Camembert? I've read that you cut off a small piece of the white rind and mix with a small amount of water then pour in the water when adding the starter culture?
Kaiser you mentioned using cheese to innoculate is this what you refer too?

 

[benno1973]

Truman - yep, exactly. For blues, I have a roquefort culture but generally I take a teaspoon sized lump of my last batch of blue, mix it with water into a paste and add it to the milk. You can do the same with camembert I understand, although I've never tested it out. I can confirm that mixing it with water an dspraying it on salamis does produce a white mould rind, so yes, the white mould is definitely viable this way.

If you were to do it, I'd suggest that you use about a teaspoon sized lump of camembert and blitz it in a food processor with 1/4 cup water or milk. Then add it to the cheese and proceed as per usual.

 

[capretta]

i used to do it, but i kept experimenting with smaller amounts until it got unreliable and the heartache wasnt worth it for me anymore. a teaspoon was more than i ever used so would give you a strong starter i would guess with very little chance of failure.. but ymmv!

 

[Truman42]

Thanks gents. So I assume this will also work with any commercial camembert cheese? (Kasier you say you used a lump from your last batch of blue)

They dont add some sort of preservative or something like that to commercial cheese that would make this not work???

Do you guys make a starter culture at all? My mad millie cheese kit instructions said to just mix the mesophilic culture with some milk and pour it in. But Ive been reading about making a starter culture the day before.
I suppose its the same thing as throwing in a packet of Wyeast into a brew or making a 2 litre starter on a stir plate and pitching at high Krausen.

 

[benno1973]

I've used moulds from lots of commercial blues, there's no preservative or anything that you need to worry about, they're all live cultures.

With camembert, I do make a starter culture, but generally it's more to assess the viability of the culture. It tends to set a little like yoghurt, and then you can sit it in the fridge until you're ready to make the cheese. Saves me spending all that time making the cheese only to find that the starter culture was old and didn't do anything. I'm currently using a pack of culture that's nearly 4 years old, so it's pretty necessary!

 

[Truman42]

Cheers Kaiser thanks for that will give it a go.

 

[Truman42]

Any of you guys done 2 different cheeses and matured them in the same fridge? I would like to do a camembert this weekend and I still have a blue in my fridge. I was going to put them in seperate containers.

Seems there are mixed opinions on the forums Ive read as to if this will cause cross contamination or not.

 

[benno1973]

Any of you guys done 2 different cheeses and matured them in the same fridge? I would like to do a camembert this weekend and I still have a blue in my fridge. I was going to put them in seperate containers.

Seems there are mixed opinions on the forums Ive read as to if this will cause cross contamination or not.

Aging blue requires a pretty high humidity (90-95%), so I keep the blue in a sealed container. I keep the brie in a container with the lid propped just open. The recommendation is to air the blue out every few days. Just remove it from the fridge, open the container and leave it at room temp to air out for an hour or so, then seal it back up and return to the fridge.

To be honest, I haven't been airing my blue and it's looking and tasting just fine. I guess it gets and airing out when I flip it every few days.

 

[capretta]

cross contaminate for beautiful blue and white children. cheese purity be damnned!

 

[Truman42]

Aging blue requires a pretty high humidity (90-95%), so I keep the blue in a sealed container. I keep the brie in a container with the lid propped just open. The recommendation is to air the blue out every few days. Just remove it from the fridge, open the container and leave it at room temp to air out for an hour or so, then seal it back up and return to the fridge.

To be honest, I haven't been airing my blue and it's looking and tasting just fine. I guess it gets and airing out when I flip it every few days.

Im glad you said that because I currently have the lid slightly open on my blue and was worried the humidty wasn't high enough. Its wet enough underneath but quite dry on the top surface. Their is only slight condensation on the opposite side of the container to where the lid is opened slightly.

I will seal up the lid to keep the humidty in and maybe put a wet cloth in the bottom.

 

[Kai]

Any of you guys done 2 different cheeses and matured them in the same fridge? I would like to do a camembert this weekend and I still have a blue in my fridge. I was going to put them in seperate containers.

Seems there are mixed opinions on the forums Ive read as to if this will cause cross contamination or not.

The correct answer is perhaps.

Unless there is some pretty savage air circulation in your fridge (which I doubt) blowing mould from one cheese to another, then think about how those tiny little critters are going to make it all the way from one cheese to another. If they can do that unaided then hell, I think they deserve to.

Typically cross contamination is going to come from handling the white after handling the blue, or putting the white on a rack inhabited by the blue, or letting the white and blue bump uglies... etc etc. . User error is generally the problem

Of course, the best way to avoid user error is.... keep them separate. But I will categorically say you can keep white and blue in the same maturation room without fear of cross contamination, if you are careful.

 

[benno1973]

Unless there is some pretty savage air circulation in your fridge (which I doubt) blowing mould from one cheese to another, then think about how those tiny little critters are going to make it all the way from one cheese to another. If they can do that unaided then hell, I think they deserve to.

Don't forget about sporulation. Blue mould cheeses eventually turn green because the mould sporulates. These spores are then forcibly ejected to ensure dispersal. It's not just about external air circulation.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

OK - dont store them in the same plastic container... but in the same fridge??

Jeez, I get wee spots of blue mold on my cams sometimes... and I've never made a blue. Little care, different container, maybe a bit of paper towel over the top of teh container so things cant just fall in but moisture can still migrate out - and watch the cheese. If a little spot of blue starts to grow.... pick it off.

If it turns out a disaster... dont do it again. Its cheese not sheep stations, you can afford to risk getting it wrong once.

 

[Truman42]

Thanks gents I will give it a crack. Im using my Waeco so no fan inside the fridge and will keep them in seperate containers and handle them seperately perhaps on different days even. Ive aleady started the blue so tonight I will prick holes in it then I dont need to touch it as often.

@TB...Yes true not sheep stations but at around 4 months waiting to get to eat the cheese I would rather not let it turn out to be a disaster in the first place.

 

[benno1973]

Personally, I love a good blue brie. I don't care if they cross-contaminate, but the question was whether they could, and they can. Even in the same fridge. Some people keep separate fridges for blue and white mould cheese, it's not unheard of, and that's the reason.

It's not sheep stations, but it is cheese! And for the sake of buying a $2 tuppaware container, you can avoid the issue if you want. As Truman said, if you're spending time making and ageing cheese, you'd rather do everything possible to make sure the result is as you want it.

 

[Kai]

Don't forget about sporulation. Blue mould cheeses eventually turn green because the mould sporulates. These spores are then forcibly ejected to ensure dispersal. It's not just about external air circulation.

Thankyou, I did. Forget, I mean. That's a pretty hairy blue to reach that point though.

And yes, if you get a spot or two of blue on your white, then just wipe it off!

 

[Truman42]

After turning and salting for 3 days Ive now pricked 40 holes with a sterile needle into each cheese. Put them back into the maturation box and in the fridge set at 10C. Ive locked the lid down and placed a starsan soaked cloth in the bottom to keep the humidty up at 95%. Instructions say to leave for 10 days and mould should start to form.
Do I need to turn them at all in this next 10 days or leave them alone?

I was thinking of getting one of these hygrometers to keep an eye on my humidity. I know its a cheapo but at least I can get a rough idea of where Im at. Anyone else use a hygrometer in their cheese house?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Digital-Thermometer-Hygrometer-Hygro-temperature-Probe-for-Reptiles-Incubators-/150915201275?pt=AU_Pet_Supplies&hash=item23233f38fb

 

[benno1973]

After turning and salting for 3 days Ive now pricked 40 holes with a sterile needle into each cheese. Put them back into the maturation box and in the fridge set at 10C. Ive locked the lid down and placed a starsan soaked cloth in the bottom to keep the humidty up at 95%. Instructions say to leave for 10 days and mould should start to form.
Do I need to turn them at all in this next 10 days or leave them alone?

I was thinking of getting one of these hygrometers to keep an eye on my humidity. I know its a cheapo but at least I can get a rough idea of where Im at. Anyone else use a hygrometer in their cheese house?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Digital-Thermometer-Hygrometer-Hygro-temperature-Probe-for-Reptiles-Incubators-/150915201275?pt=AU_Pet_Supplies&hash=item23233f38fb

I bought one of these, and it was out. Like very out. I compared it to another 'weather station' hygrometer I had an it measured 30% different. I calibrated both (google calibrating a hygrometer) and it was reading 42% when it should have been reading 75%. Maybe I just got a bad one. It's cheap enough just to give it a whirl.

And yes, I keep a hygrometer in my cheese fridge...

 

[Truman42]

What sort do you use kaiser?