Style Of The Week 16/8/06 - Belgian Dubbel

[Stuster]

I thought we'd start the new forum this week with the delicious flavours of Belgian Dubbel, 18B on the BJCP style guidelines.

So what is your take on this style? Grains? Hops? Importantly, which yeast? Do you add sugar and if so what kind? Do you use any other ingredients? There are some Belgian kits out there so any feedback on them would be good. Any what are your favourite commercial Dubbels?

So tell us all you know about this style. :super:

18B. Belgian Dubbel

Aroma: Complex, rich malty sweetness; malt may have hints of chocolate, caramel and/or toast (but never roasted or burnt aromas). Moderate fruity esters (usually including raisins and plums, sometimes also dried cherries). Rarely esters will include banana or apple. Spicy phenols and higher alcohols are common (may include light clove and spice, peppery, rose-like and/or perfumy notes). Spicy qualities can be moderate to very low. Alcohol, if present, is soft and never hot or solventy. A small number of examples may include a low noble hop aroma, but hops are usually absent. No diacetyl.

Appearance: Dark amber to copper in color, with an attractive reddish depth of color. Generally clear. Large, dense, and long-lasting creamy off-white head.

Flavor: Similar qualities as aroma. Rich, complex medium to medium-full malty sweetness on the palate yet finishes moderately dry. Complex malt, ester, alcohol and phenol interplay (raisiny flavors are common; dried fruit flavors are welcome; clove-like spiciness is optional). Balance is always toward the malt. Medium-low bitterness that doesn't persist into the finish. Low noble hop flavor is optional and not usually present. No diacetyl. Should not be as malty as a bock and should not have crystal malt-type sweetness. No spices.

Mouthfeel: Medium-full body. Medium-high carbonation, which can influence the perception of body. Low alcohol warmth. Smooth, never hot or solventy.

Overall Impression: A deep reddish, moderately strong, malty, complex Belgian ale.

History: Originated at monasteries in the Middle Ages, and was revived in the mid-1800s after the Napoleonic era.

Ingredients: Belgian yeast strains prone to production of higher alcohols, esters, and phenolics are commonly used. Soft water. Complex grain bill: Belgian pils or pale base malt, Munich-type malts for maltiness, Special B for raisin flavors, CaraMunich for dried fruit flavors, other specialty grains for character. Dark candi sugar for color and rum-raisin flavors. Noble-type, English-type or Styrian Goldings hops commonly used. No spices.
Vital Statistics:
OG FG IBUs SRM ABV
1.062 - 1.075 1.010 - 1.018 15 - 25 10 - 14 6 - 7.5%
An ABV of 6.5 7.0% is most typical.

Commercial Examples: Westmalle Dubbel, La Trappe Dubbel, Corsendonk Abbey Brown Ale, Grimbergen Double, Affligem Dubbel, Chimay Premiere (Red), Duinen Dubbel, St. Feuillien Brune, New Belgium Abbey Belgian Style Ale, Stoudts Abbey Double Ale

 

[KoNG]

Was this not your xmas case style Stuster...?
i think you should start . I've never brewed one myself, so i will enjoy reading how its done.

 

[Stuster]

It was kONg, but I'm yet to get many reviews on that so... :unsure: I'll put the recipe up anyway, any suggestions appreciated.

I used 1388 yeast. It was a slow worker (like its previous owner ) but ended with high attenuation which you want for this style. I find it has a nice fruity/phenolic flavour and aroma.

JW dark crystal seems nice in this style. Munich seemed to give some nice maltiness. I cooked up some sugar on the stove as Mosher suggests instead of using dark crystal. Then the next belgian I just used straight sugar in the boil, and I can't say it made much difference. I used some coriander and orange peel in a Belgian pale ale, then didn't in a dubbel. Again, not a huge difference as most of those flavours seem to come from the yeast but I'll probably experiment with that in future batches.

 

[Doc]

Dubbel is one of my fav Belgian styles. I like darker dubbels.
I've brewed a number of them and have got the recipe to pretty much where I want it, however next time I brew it I want to make one change. That is to the candi sugar. Will remove and replace with candi syrup when I can get my hands on some.

Beers,
Doc

Abbey's Dubbel

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

18-B Belgian Strong Ale, Belgian Dubbel

Min OG: 1.062 Max OG: 1.075
Min IBU: 15 Max IBU: 25
Min Clr: 20 Max Clr: 28 Color in EBC

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 24.00 Wort Size (L): 24.00
Total Grain (kg): 7.81
Anticipated OG: 1.080 Plato: 19.36
Anticipated EBC: 20.4
Anticipated IBU: 29.7
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 10.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 28.24 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.068 SG 16.62 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
73.0 5.70 kg. JWM Traditional Ale Malt Australia 1.038 7
8.3 0.65 kg. Powells Wheat Malt Australia 1.038 3
6.4 0.50 kg. Candy Sugar 1.047 0
4.1 0.32 kg. Weyermann Caraamber Germany 1.037 70
4.1 0.32 kg. Weyermann Caramunich I Germany 1.036 100
4.1 0.32 kg. Weyermann Carapils (Carafoam) Germany 1.037 3

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
50.00 g. Pacific Hallertau Pellet 4.20 25.0 60 min.
28.00 g. Pacific Hallertau Pellet 4.20 4.7 20 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.00 Unit(s)Koppafloc Fining 15 Min.(boil)


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP550 Belgian Ale

Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Single Step

Grain kg: 7.31
Water Qts: 21.60 - Before Additional Infusions
Water L: 20.44 - Before Additional Infusions

L Water Per kg Grain: 2.80 - Before Additional Infusions

Saccharification Rest Temp : 67 Time: 90
Mash-out Rest Temp : 72 Time: 10
Sparge Temp : 80 Time: 60


Total Mash Volume L: 25.32 - Dough-In Infusion Only

All temperature measurements are degrees Celsius.

 

[tangent]

Love this style.
To me it's all about the yeast and mouthfeel.
Crystal malts and phenolic aromas, like drinking a fortified wine.
I used to add a lot more crap to mine like raisins and juniper berries but I'm really getting off on their complexity from their simplicity. Higher mash temps and loads of malt
I still can't pin down my favourite liquid yeast for this one, they're all so different but tasty.

 

[razz]

G'day doc, why the candi syrup over the rock type ? I have not used either myself. :blink:

 

[Doc]

The syrup is what the Belgians actually use and it is supposed to be much more authentic.
I had some on its way to me but Aussie Post mangled it and it got returned to sender in a rather sticky mess.

This is the stuff

Doc

 

[mikem108]

As part of my Belgian brewing Holy trinity, I'm doing one of these as the second.

First was the de Koninick clone or more of a Belgian single as instead of their yeast I've used the WLP530 which is going nuts climbing out of the fermenter and making all kinds of mess. Began ferment at 18C and let it climb to about 22 by day 4

On top of this yeast cake will go a Dubbel,Weyermann Boho Pils malt some caraaroma and dark crystal, dark candy sugar, Styrian goldings for bittering & hallertau for flavour.

The following week I will use this same yeast for a tripel. Base malt, wheat flour, white candy, Hallertau and Saaz

 

[DrewCarey82]

Sheez Mike, I'll have to query you about your recipes mate at our next meet am looking to do a Belgian shortly myself.

 

[mikem108]

Drew,
Will you be going the full AG or a Partial?

 

[DJR]

Nice topic - i have a vial of WLP550 just waiting for something like this, or a trippel.

Let's talk starters and aeration, with 1070 to 1085 OG is it important to step up with a large starter and aerate heaps, or is it OK to underpitch as it will increase the esters/phenolics anyway?

And what about the addition of sugar/fermentables in secondary, is it a better idea to start at 1050-1060 with your malt in primary and then add more in secondary?

Yeast - will the old Safbrew T-58 or S-33 be good enough, or should you be looking at a liquid yeast?

 

[DrewCarey82]

Drew,
Will you be going the full AG or a Partial?

Partial still mate, looking to going AG within 3 months.

But Stuster informed me the best way to convert a AG to Partial is to merely subsitute 1kg of some of the base grain for 700g of the appropriate dried or liquid malt. Keeping as much if not all of the specialty malts.

Cheers.

 

[James Squire]

Am I correct in saying that historically the trappist beers were separate beers made from the first, second and third runnings of the same mash? IIRC this is known as 'partigyle' brewing?

Trippel being the first (undiluted) runnings, dubbel being the second.

Am I wrong?

JS

 

[DJR]

Am I correct in saying that historically the trappist beers were separate beers made from the first, second and third runnings of the same mash? IIRC this is known as 'partigyle' brewing?

Trippel being the first (undiluted) runnings, dubbel being the second.

Am I wrong?

JS

Not quite, the trippel style is actually lighter in color than dubbel but higher in alcohol.

 

[SJW]

Is there any good dry yeast worth trying with this style?

 

[James Squire]

...trippel being higher alcohol as it comes from the first runnings? Were they fermented one after the other on the same yeast cake too?

Cheers,

JS

 

[mikem108]

Nice topic - i have a vial of WLP550 just waiting for something like this, or a trippel.

Let's talk starters and aeration, with 1070 to 1085 OG is it important to step up with a large starter and aerate heaps, or is it OK to underpitch as it will increase the esters/phenolics anyway?

And what about the addition of sugar/fermentables in secondary, is it a better idea to start at 1050-1060 with your malt in primary and then add more in secondary?

Yeast - will the old Safbrew T-58 or S-33 be good enough, or should you be looking at a liquid yeast?

SOme Belgian beer books mention that compered to others the Belgians pitch less yeast but this also varies from Brewery to brewery. With a high OG it is still importatnt to have plenty of yeast and lots or aeration.
The pitching rate to control the esters/phenolics is a fine art and without knowing the cell count I would rather err on the side of too much yeast than not enough. First Chimay red I did, there was insufficient yeast and aeration (due to inexperience) and the resulting beer had a fairly potent acetone nose for the first six months in the bottle, it disipated with time.

Have put the sugar into the secondary in a previous Belgian but it was Dextrose with the Rock Candy I'd rather put it in near the end of the boil.

Having not used the dried Belgian yeasts I can't comment but the WLP550 made quite a tasty saison last year and as few Trappist breweries use the WLP530 I thought I'd give that a go this year.

 

[James Squire]

Ok,

Bit of reading and got myself sorted. It is Partigyle brewing and the beers are made from the first, second and third runnings of the mash. Dubbel is darker than the Tripel as it uses dark candy as opposed to light candy.

The names of many Belgian beers include one of the words singel, dubbel, or tripel. These words, as you may have guessed, mean single, double, and triple; they are different styles of beer. The two classic styles are singel and dubbel. Dubbel is produced from the first runnings of the mash, and the single is made from the sparge/second runnings. The dubbel wort is re-inforced with dark candy sugar (less refined than white sugar). Tripel is a relatively recent innovation -- post WWII -- and is made from the first runnings with a large amount of pale candy sugar. All these beers are fermented two or three times, the last step usually in the bottle. Singels tend to be light and tart, dubbels dark and sweet, and tripels lighter and sometimes less sweet. The amount of alcohol typically increases from singel to dubbel to tripel.

Cheers,

JS

 

[bindi]

I have Wyeast 3787 Trappist and I think some 1388 Belgian strong ale in the yeast bank, any of these two close to White Labs WLP550 Belgian Ale ? <_< Which I can't get up here.

 

[DJR]

I have Wyeast 3787 Trappist and I think some 1388 Belgian strong ale in the yeast bank, any of these two close to White Labs WLP550 Belgian Ale ? <_< Which I can't get up here.

3787 is not WLP550 (doc corrected)... Although the white labs site reckons 550 is not that good for dubbel?

I had heard that some belgian types are from parti-gyle, would be interesting to run the first runnings as a trippel using cane/light candi and then the second runnings as a dubbel using dark candi, use slightly different hops and the same yeast for both - 500, 530, 550, 570 or 575 (the blended one) and see how they differ after a couple of months in bottles.