Style Of The Week 10/06/08 - Old Ale

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Stuster

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I thought we could look at a nice winter warmer this week, Old Ale. This is a traditional English style which was aged, mainly in wood giving it the chance to get some sweaty, stale flavours from brettanomyces and others. You don't have to do that now, though it's certainly a plus in my book. :rolleyes:

Anyway, some links.
All about beer article.
BT article on Old, Strong and Stock Ales

So what grains? hops? Which yeast? kits and bits? How to go about fermenting a strong style like this? How long to age this style for? Any other hints? I know a few brewers are making Old Ales at the moment and I know a few award winning Old Ale brewers are amongst us, so it'd be good to get your opinions so we can brew the best beer we can. :beer:

From the BJCP site, link thing.

19A. Old Ale

Aroma: Malty-sweet with fruity esters, often with a complex blend of dried-fruit, vinous, caramelly, molasses, nutty, toffee, treacle, and/or other specialty malt aromas. Some alcohol and oxidative notes are acceptable, akin to those found in Sherry or Port. Hop aromas not usually present due to extended aging.

Appearance: Light amber to very dark reddish-brown color (most are fairly dark). Age and oxidation may darken the beer further. May be almost opaque (if not, should be clear). Moderate to low cream- to light tan-colored head; may be adversely affected by alcohol and age.

Flavor: Medium to high malt character with a luscious malt complexity, often with nutty, caramelly and/or molasses-like flavors. Light chocolate or roasted malt flavors are optional, but should never be prominent. Balance is often malty-sweet, but may be well hopped (the impression of bitterness often depends on amount of aging). Moderate to high fruity esters are common, and may take on a dried-fruit or vinous character. The finish may vary from dry to somewhat sweet. Extended aging may contribute oxidative flavors similar to a fine old Sherry, Port or Madeira. Alcoholic strength should be evident, though not overwhelming. Diacetyl low to none. Some wood-aged or blended versions may have a lactic or Brettanomyces character; but this is optional and should not be too strong (enter as a specialty beer if it is).

Mouthfeel: Medium to full, chewy body, although older examples may be lower in body due to continued attenuation during conditioning. Alcohol warmth is often evident and always welcome. Low to moderate carbonation, depending on age and conditioning.

Overall Impression: An ale of significant alcoholic strength, bigger than strong bitters and brown porters, though usually not as strong or rich as barleywine. Usually tilted toward a sweeter, maltier balance. It should be a warming beer of the type that is best drunk in half pints by a warm fire on a cold winters night Michael Jackson.

Comments: Strength and character varies widely. Fits in the style space between normal gravity beers (strong bitters, brown porters) and barleywines. Can include winter warmers, strong dark milds, strong (and perhaps darker) bitters, blended strong beers (stock ale blended with a mild or bitter), and lower gravity versions of English barleywines. Many English examples, particularly winter warmers, are lower than 6% ABV.

History: A traditional English ale style, mashed at higher temperatures than strong ales to reduce attenuation, then aged at the brewery after primary fermentation (similar to the process used for historical porters). Often had age-related character (lactic, Brett, oxidation, leather) associated with stale beers. Used as stock ales for blending or enjoyed at full strength (stale or stock refers to beers that were aged or stored for a significant period of time). Winter warmers are a more modern style that are maltier, fuller-bodied, often darker beers that may be a brewerys winter seasonal special offering.

Ingredients: Generous quantities of well-modified pale malt (generally English in origin, though not necessarily so), along with judicious quantities of caramel malts and other specialty character malts. Some darker examples suggest that dark malts (e.g., chocolate, black malt) may be appropriate, though sparingly so as to avoid an overly roasted character. Adjuncts (such as molasses, treacle, invert sugar or dark sugar) are often used, as are starchy adjuncts (maize, flaked barley, wheat) and malt extracts. Hop variety is not as important, as the relative balance and aging process negate much of the varietal character. British ale yeast that has low attenuation, but can handle higher alcohol levels, is traditional.
Vital Statistics: OG: 1.060 1.090
IBUs: 30 60 FG: 1.015 1.022
SRM: 10 22 ABV: 6 9%

Commercial Examples: Gales Prize Old Ale, Burton Bridge Olde Expensive, Marston Owd Roger, Greene King Olde Suffolk Ale , J.W. Lees Moonraker, Harviestoun Old Engine Oil, Fullers Vintage Ale, Harveys Elizabethan Ale, Theakston Old Peculier (peculiar at OG 1.057), Young's Winter Warmer, Sarah Hughes Dark Ruby Mild, Samuel Smiths Winter Welcome, Fullers 1845, Fullers Old Winter Ale, Great Divide Hibernation Ale, Founders Curmudgeon, Cooperstown Pride of Milford Special Ale, Coniston Old Man Ale, Avery Old Jubilation
 
I read that Arrogant ******* is considered to be a stock ale. I've made a few of those. Plenty of dark crystal malt (up to 1 kg).

Have also made an old, strong ale from kit and kilo(s of golden syrup). Took a while to ferment out, but has kept long enough to be a really old ale. Scored best Strong ale in NSW in 2006 comp.
 
This is an old ale I've made a couple of times which I've really enjoyed - I got it from this forum somewhere. Sorry I can't remember who I got it from to give them the credit:

Recipe Theakston's Old PeculierStyle Old Ale
Brewer David Corless Batch 21.00 L


Recipe Characteristics
Recipe Gravity 1.058 OG Estimated FG 1.014 FG
Recipe Bitterness 27 IBU Alcohol by Volume 5.8%
Recipe Color 16 SRM Alcohol by Weight 4.5%

Ingredients
Quantity Grain Use
0.22 kg Dextrose extract
0.22 kg Brown Sugar extract
0.11 kg Bairds black Malt mashed
0.34 kg Bairds Pale crystal mashed
4.00 kg Joe White Ale mashed
0.17 kg Torrefied wheat mashed
0.11 kg Smiths Golden Syrup extract

Quantity Hop Form Time
50.00 g Fuggles pellet 60 minutes
15.00 g Fuggles pellet 15 minutes
15.00 g Fuggles pellet 5 minutes
31.00 g Fuggles (Dry) pellet 0 minutes

Quantity Misc Notes
1.00 unit SafAle S-04 Reused Slurry

Recipe Notes

Batch Notes
1.057 @ 27C - 10/12/07 - 73% Efficiency
1.019 @ 20C - 15/12/07
1.016 @ 21C - 17/12/07 - Racked onto dry hops
1.013 @ 16C - 21/12/07
1.014 @ 12C - 26/12/07 - Kegged

BATCH 2
1.059 @ 26C - 28/12/07 - 75% Efficiency
1.019 @ 20C - 2/1/08
1.017 @ 20C - 4/1/08 - added Dry Hops to Primary
1.012 @ 24C - 11/1/08 - racked to secondary
1.012 @ 21C - 19/1/08 - primed with 94g dextrose
 
So far the common ingredient appears to be Golden Syrup. :lol:

Just bumping this for any other Old Ale recipes, with or without the key ingredient. :)

Les, I'm not sure AB is an Old Ale. Might just have a touch too much hoppiness. ;)
 
My latest effort at this style. Brewed on 20th of Feb. Currently tasting pretty reasonable but will age it for longer before I give it a real nudge.

Old Cove Ale
Old Ale



Date: 20/02/2008
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Brewer: Mark Rasheed
Boil Size: 33.28 L Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 120 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.0


Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
5.75 kg Bairds Marris Otter (5.0 EBC) Grain 76.2 %
1.00 kg Weyermann Munich II (23.6 EBC) Grain 13.2 %
0.40 kg Bairds Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (236.4 EBC) Grain 5.3 %
0.20 kg TF Flaked Maize (0.0 EBC) Grain 2.6 %
0.20 kg TF Pale Chocolate Malt (500.4 EBC) Grain 2.6 %
32.00 gm Target [9.50%] (60 min) Hops 39.5 IBU
28.00 gm EKG [5.5%] (Dry hop 14 days)
1 Pkgs London Ale (Wyeast Labs #1028) Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.072 SG
Bitterness: 39.5 IBU
Est Color: 40.3 EBC


Notes

Mashed at 68C. Took 2 Litres of first runnings and boiled down to 0.5 Litres.

C&B
TDA
 
i'm brewing this after my blonde belgian finishes fermenting :D

moloughneys old ale


est OG 1.065
est FG 1.017
est ABV 7%

ingrediants:
1kg dark munich
200g carared
200g 60L crystal malt
3kg coopers light liquid malt
0.375 demerera sugar
0.125 dextrose

nelson sauvin 15g @60mins
fuggles 20g @60mins
fuggles 20g @15 mins

IBU 32

safale s04 sachet X1

a few questions is my IBU too high (should it be 30) and with the s04 do i need to make a starter or should it be able to chew its way through this easily

any comments /tips
 
Brewed this old ale on Thursday - Linky

First time using 1187 when i havent had to rouse it! Humming along beautifully, down to 1.026 in 2 and a bit days from 1.062.

Was planning on letting this sit for a few months but with 5 out of 6 kegs empty i am in need of beer stat! I tend to brew 25L these days so i can get 10-12 longies in the shed.

The Old Peculier is on the cards...... think i'm a bit late for old ale brewing season so may have to make them at the lower end of the scale so i can drink them before xmas! :D
 
tried my old ale for the first time after 4 months has a nice caramel malty flavour which dominates the beer could defidently had some more bitterness and i guess time will let this mellow out but overall exactly what i was looking for in an old ale
 
How timly......... im boiling one right now behing me.

Its a slightly modified version of the Old Ale that won me last years NSW state comp and a Gold at the AABC.

I am making this one a little less complicated........... no golden syrip, just lots of pale crystal, a touch of pale chocolate and some Flaked Barley for body and texture.

here is the recipe. Its going to be fermented with 1098 and stored for 12 months before touching. Well might have to try one or 2 along the way.

cheers

Strong Old Ale 2

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 18.00 Wort Size (L): 18.00
Total Grain (kg): 6.46
Anticipated OG: 1.080 Plato: 19.42
Anticipated EBC: 32.0
Anticipated IBU: 58.1
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
77.4 5.00 kg. TF Maris Otter Pale Ale Malt UK 1.037 5
12.4 0.80 kg. TF Pale Crystal UK 1.034 100
7.7 0.50 kg. TF Flaked Barley UK 1.034 0
1.5 0.10 kg. Rice Gulls Australia 1.000 0
0.9 0.06 kg. TF Pale Chocolate Malt UK 1.033 550

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
44.00 g. Pilgrim Pellet 10.40 53.2 45 min.
10.00 g. E.K Goldings Pellet 4.30 3.3 20 min.
14.00 g. E.K Goldings Pellet 4.30 1.5 5 min.


Yeast
-----

WYeast 1098 British Ale
 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
77.4 5.00 kg. TF Maris Otter Pale Ale Malt UK 1.037 5
12.4 0.80 kg. TF Pale Crystal UK 1.034 100
7.7 0.50 kg. TF Flaked Barley UK 1.034 0
1.5 0.10 kg. Rice Gulls Australia 1.000 0
0.9 0.06 kg. TF Pale Chocolate Malt UK 1.033 550

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
44.00 g. Pilgrim Pellet 10.40 53.2 45 min.
10.00 g. E.K Goldings Pellet 4.30 3.3 20 min.
14.00 g. E.K Goldings Pellet 4.30 1.5 5 min.


Yeast
-----

WYeast 1098 British Ale


Hey Tony What are the Rice Gulls for ?
 
The flaked barley mate. I have found it binds up the mash in my good old blue esky with a flase bottom surface area of a 50c coin.

Its just insurance, thats all.

I also find they impart a fantastic caramel clavour the the beer and aid in carbonation once the beer is in the bottle :)

cheers
 
The flaked barley mate. I have found it binds up the mash in my good old blue esky with a flase bottom surface area of a 50c coin.

Its just insurance, thats all.

I also find they impart a fantastic caramel clavour the the beer and aid in carbonation once the beer is in the bottle :)

cheers


Thats interesting , Hey you gon back to basics Tony using your old Mash Tun what happened to the new Brewery ?

Pumpy :)
 
I do "small" 18 to 27 liter batches in the esky.

The Rig is for 50 liters and 50 liters of 1.080 Strong ale is a bit much in my book.

Would rather make 3 different beers at smaller volumes.

I use the Rig for large volume batches to drink on tap. I experiment and no-chill with the old esky.

It still works as good as ever. Sometimes i use both at once.

cheers
 
Hey Tony What are the Rice Gulls for ?

confusing people who don't know what the hell they are"" :D :p :lol: B)

seriously - Tony's original recipe brew was sensational when I judged it last year - I even wrote give me the recipe on my comments - (if they could be read)
 
Brett character - Can this be achieved by ageing the ale on unsanitised oak chips?? Does Brett hangout in oak?
 
Finish my first Old Ale this arvo and after chilling the aroma was dominated by treacle... a bit too much <_< Is this something that fades a lot over time?

Reviled, Brett does live in barrels but you probably wont find much on chips since they have been toasted and I think the heating process will have killed any off.

Old Ale


Type: All Grain
Date: 13/04/2009
Batch Size: 21.00 L
Brewer: Jye
Boil Size: 27.46 L Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 90 min Equipment: SK Brew Hous
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 60.0
Taste Notes: CSR Treacle

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
9.30 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (3.0 SRM) Grain 92.1 %
0.25 kg Crystal Malt, Dark (Bairds) (120.0 SRM) Grain 2.5 %
0.20 kg Crystal Malt, Medium (Bairds) (75.0 SRM) Grain 2.0 %
0.05 kg Black (Patent) Malt (Bairds) (650.0 SRM) Grain 0.5 %
0.30 kg Black Treacle (80.0 SRM) Sugar 3.0 %

50.00 gm Magnum [13.10%] (60 min) Hops 59.6 IBU

0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
3.00 gm Calcium Carbonate (Mash 5.0 min) Misc
5.00 gm 5.2 (Mash 90.0 min) Misc

1 Pkgs PC Old Ale Blend (Wyeast #9097) Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.092 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.094 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.017 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.000 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 9.9 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.0 %
Bitterness: 59.6 IBU Calories: 904 cal/l
Est Color: 22.2 SRM Color: Color


Mash Profile

Mash Name: SK Brew Hous Mash Total Grain Weight: 9.80 kg
Sparge Water: 13.77 L Grain Temperature: 25.0 C
Sparge Temperature: 100.0 C TunTemperature: 25.0 C
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 24.50 L of water at 71.1 C 65.0 C 90 min
 
I used 500 gms of golden syrup in an old ale which is now 4 months old. The flavour is still a bit edgey which some do not like. I like it but it is mellowing with age. These beers are suppose be drank after a year or more so give it time.
 
Jye could well be the treacle itself (CSR). Ours by all accounts are far more pungent and probably molasses like as opposed to the British stuff. Any UK recipes looking for Black Treacles are usually referring to Lyle's.

Warren -
 
Keen for some thoughts/advice on my Old Ale recipe - been knocking this back and forth for a while now, planning to mash fairly high, say 69/70*c, then let Brett unleash the fury :icon_cheers:

OG - 1076 IBU - 38

4kg 200g Pale
150g Wheat malt
960g Munich
60g Melanoidin
120g CaraAmber
120g CaraMunich
180g CaraAroma
120g Dark Crystal
150g Rye
60g Molasses
300g Maple syrup - Or brown sugar??

FWH : 13g NZ Goldings, 13g Willamette
60 : 5g NZ Goldings, 5g Williamette
15 : 10g NZ Goldings, 15g Williamette
5 : 10g NZ Goldings, 15g Williamette

Wyeast 1469 - Then Brett
 

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