Style Of The Week 10/06/08 - Old Ale

[manticle]

Ressurection.

I have a packet of Wy PC old ale in the fridge and am thinking of a future brew that I can age in a glass carboy for next winter. I haven't run these figures through software yet - just playing with ideas.

85% Crisp Marris otter
2.5% Dark Crystal (UK)
2.5% pale crystal (UK)
5% medium crystal (UK)
2% biscuit (Belg)
A small addition of treacle or golden syrup or a blend of both.

Fuggles to bitter, EKG for flavour, roughly 40-50 IBU. OG around 1060-65

WY old ale.

Worth adding the treacle as I would sugar with a begian (after primary) or just chuck it in? Also styrians could be a goer in this. Thoughts on dry hopping?

Feedback very welcome.

 

[Tony]

hey mate.

for a great Old Ale...... dont be afraid of adding lots of crystal..... im talking 15% or more. A lot of dark crystal malts can be a bit much though and i used about 8% TF caramalt which goes like toffee with age! 4 or 5% medium and dark crystal on this and your talking buisness. An addition of 5% flaked barley doesnt go astray either.

MO base...... perfect. 90 min mash, 90 min boil.

The old ale i made years ago that won awards used several % Demarara (speeling ) sugar for its deep caramel notes i love so much in my coffee.

Also dont be afraid to add a good chunk of flavour and aroma hops. I know its an aging beer and they will fade, but they fade to a complexity that adds wonders to the beer when aged.

cheers

 

[manticle]

Cheers mate. Might up the pale and medium crystal a touch to hit 12-15% total crystal and scale everything else accordingly.

EKG and styrians for later hops? I also have target which I quite like late.

 

[Tony]

EKG and styrians for later hops? I also have target which I quite like late.

late hops...... perfect!

Target is an awsome bittering hop.....id use it for that in this beer....... or challenger :icon_drool2:

Also.. aim for a BU:GU of about 0.7

have fun!

 

[manticle]

Thanks mate. I'll have a play around in the software and see what I can come up with. Recently bought some challenger too (and first gold) as I've never tried them.

 

[Tony]

this is the beer i made that won gold at AABC. I look at it now and think.... WTF was i thinking but it worked. It tasted like crap for the forst 12 months, but an old ale is all about time and it hit its peak after 2 years in cool dark storage.

strong ale

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 40.00 Wort Size (L): 40.00
Total Grain (kg): 12.90
Anticipated OG: 1.076 Plato: 18.44
Anticipated EBC: 26.8
Anticipated IBU: 44.4
Brewhouse Efficiency: 76 %
Wort Boil Time: 75 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
77.5 10.00 kg. TF Maris Otter Pale Ale Malt UK 1.037 5
7.8 1.00 kg. TF Caramalt UK 1.034 30
4.7 0.60 kg. TF Crystal UK 1.034 145
3.9 0.50 kg. Demerara Sugar Generic 1.042 2
3.9 0.50 kg. TF Flaked Barley UK 1.034 0
2.3 0.30 kg. JWM Dark Crystal Australia 1.036 230

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
100.00 g. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 5.20 30.6 60 min.
40.00 g. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 5.20 9.4 30 min.
40.00 g. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 5.20 4.4 10 min.
14.00 g. Fuggle Plugs Plug 4.80 0.0 Dry Hop
14.00 g. Northdown Plugs Plug 5.80 0.0 Dry Hop



Yeast
-----

WYeast 1338 European Ale

 

[haysie]

Ressurection.

I have a packet of Wy PC old ale in the fridge and am thinking of a future brew that I can age in a glass carboy for next winter. I haven't run these figures through software yet - just playing with ideas.

85% Crisp Marris otter
2.5% Dark Crystal (UK)
2.5% pale crystal (UK)
5% medium crystal (UK)
2% biscuit (Belg)
A small addition of treacle or golden syrup or a blend of both.

Fuggles to bitter, EKG for flavour, roughly 40-50 IBU. OG around 1060-65

WY old ale.

Worth adding the treacle as I would sugar with a begian (after primary) or just chuck it in? Also styrians could be a goer in this. Thoughts on dry hopping?

Feedback very welcome.

The yeast you have is the brett old ale combo?
If so, some serious fermenter/carboy time before bottling. Maybe incorrect but a brett intro would be most warranted for this style.
I bought the same yeast and brewed 28 ltrs last week. I didnt care much for the recipe, base m/o, special b, simpsons crystal med and dark, shedload of boiling with an addition of raw sugar. Some, 12 ltrs of which I have racked to fruit. 1092 was the O/G. Its big, thats how I want it for 2012.
Keep us posted.

 

[manticle]

The yeast you have is the brett old ale combo?
If so, some serious fermenter/carboy time before bottling. Maybe incorrect but a brett intro would be most warranted for this style.
I bought the same yeast and brewed 28 ltrs last week. I didnt care much for the recipe, base m/o, special b, simpsons crystal med and dark, shedload of boiling with an addition of raw sugar. Some, 12 ltrs of which I have racked to fruit. 1092 was the O/G. Its big, thats how I want it for 2012.
Keep us posted.

Yeah I'll be whacking it into glass and leaving at least until winter. I'll taste it then and see if further ageing is warranted - could be winter 2012 as you suggest.

Are you saying additional brett besides what's already in the WY packet should be added?

 

[haysie]

Are you saying additional brett besides what's already in the WY packet should be added?

No, edit, Cracker of a yeast Mants, went 60 points in 72 hours off a 3ltr fresh starter and was still going. Headspace is a must. Its a belgian like yeast 80% +

 

[manticle]

Sorry. Misunderstood. Will be ageing for a good bit of time though. Subtle brett is good brett.

 

[haysie]

edited above post Manticle. Go the STRONG OLD ALE, no pisfarting around with English IPA`S or ESB`S.

 

[BjornJ]

Hi guys,
I have been playing with a recipe for an Old Ale, something quite different from what I would normally brew, just something to put down and take out now and then in small bottles over the next couple of years.

Some really good advice in this thread, really appreciate the help, thanks.

I was thinking something along the lines of

25 litres
4-5 kg of Pilsner malt just because I have a bit of it
1 kg of Munich
1 kg of wheat
0.3 kg of crystal
Northern Brewer @60 mins and 1 gr/litre of Hallertauer or something at 2 min just for a touch of something or other that probably will fade within 6 months anyway.

this from memory should be about 1.058 and 46 IBUs, then after 3-5 days in the fermenter add 1.5 kg of DME for a total OG of 1.080.

Planning to ferment it cool, 13-15 degrees with a couple of packs of US-04 or US-05 before racking to a cube and putting it in the garage for a couple of months before bottling.
Guessing after that long I would need to add another pack of dry yeast to make sure they carbonate.

1: Is it clever to add the fermentables in two batches rather than try fermenting out from 1.080? Hoping for fewer "funny" flavours from fermenting ultra-high gravity, that's why I'm also thinking of starting fermentation really low. Worst case scenario if the US-05 (or 4, can't decide) doesn't kick off at 13 degrees I'll slowly ramp it up a degree a day until it does.
2: Oxidation, is it possible to leave it in a hdpe cube (or whatever they are called, the fresh wort cubes) for a couple of months, or will oxygen get in and mess it up?
3: Bottle bombs. Will such a ultra high-gravity wort continue to ferment for a long time, possibly creating bottle bombs? or will it be safe to bottle after a month or two in the cube and any maturation/conditioning of the beer is minor stuff that does not create more CO2?
4: Low on crystal? I have read here that people add quite a bit of crystal, is this necessary or more if you like it sweet? I am not hoping for a liquour barley wine kind of sweetness, just a strong, "complex" ale hopefully without too much high alcohol taste and some dry fruit tones. (taking off here, please ignore the last bit)


Would appreciate any input, have never tried this kind of beer before.
Just thinking it would be fun to put something aside for next winter, try a couple of bottles, then again the next winter, etc.


thanks
Bjorn

 

[manticle]

A bit late in replying Bjorn but a few months in HDPE is no big deal. I have a sour that's been in plastic for at least 6 months. I keep meaning to rack it into glass but want to have another brew ready to utilise the bugs.

Every so often I taste a sample and have no major oxidation flavours nor massive amounts of aceto (aceto in the bug yeast pack). Admittedly the whole thing is still protected by a pellicle.

Just make sure your headspace is minimal.

As for bottling - I had the same concern after my first brett beer. It weas suggested to me that under 1006 should be OK but that's using brett which will eat things many other beers find unfermentable. High gravity with 05 will probably just attenuate less rather than comntinue to ferment so the old 3 days at FG rule should be fine.

For crystal complexity try using a couple of varieties (eg some dark, some light, some weyerman, some simpsons etc). A bit of biscuit or vienna will add to the profile as well.

 

[avaneyk]

Hi guys,
When you talk about aging cool do you mean cold as in a lager or is it more cellar temps? I'm thinking about doing an old to age until winter and was planning to keep it in my keg fridge. Would this work?

Cheers.

 

[avaneyk]

Bump

 

[mje1980]

I think cellar temps would be better.

I entered this in a local show brew comp, and won first in its category, and best beer of show, with 40.5 out of 50. Pretty happy!.

79.5% JW trad
6.6% Wheat malt
8% Cara aroma
4% Golden naked oats ( simpsons )
1% Black patent
.9% Lyle's treacle

67c mash, equal amounts calc chloride and gypsum

Galena 60 mins

Chalenger in the cube, 90 g worth but cant pick it in the flavour!!

1968

1.072
43 IBU.

Calc'd it comes down to 1.017, but mine hit 1.012 ( pretty sure, will check later if wanted ).

 

[avaneyk]

Makes me wish I had a cellar - don't really want to tie up my fermenting fridge for 6 months.

I might try storing it in the keg fridge like I do with lagers and see how it turns out.

I'm brewing a special bitter today and plan to repitch the yeast for the old ale.

 

[avaneyk]

Hi guys,
any advice on the following recipe?

83% Marris Otter
7.5% pale crystal
3.8% dark crystal
1.5% amber malt
0.75% pale choc
3.3% dark candy syrup (leftover from a belgian)

challenger for 60
EKG for 20

Wyeast 1318

OG 1.068; 50 IBU

I'm still deciding whether to use any late hops - I have EKG, a tiny bit of fuggles and challenger.

Cheers,
Andrew.

 

[mje1980]

Loos good mate. As for late hops, i put 90g of challenger in the cube, and i still can't pick the flavour in the beer. Maybe it adds a small dimension to the beer, but i can't say definately.

 

[avaneyk]

Thanks :icon_cheers:

I think I might leave out the late hops this time. I might even leave out the 20min addition and just go for a 60min.