Stuck Sparges?

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Archie

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Gday everyone,
How did everyone's brew day go on Sunday nothing else to do it was such a crap day.

Anyway my brewing was having a few dramas from the beginning but thats another post haha melting seal on my HLT, anyways. I have been using a braided manifold for my mash tun. It stuck, this was the first time this has happened and it really stuffs up your brew day. I was looking at one of those false bottoms from the HBS and was curious to know if anyone has had a stuck sparge using one of these pieces of equipment.

Also my efficiency was %88 this time round hahah
How good is Fly Sparging oviously works a treat

Cheers
Archie

:super:
 
Nice one mate - why'd it stick in the sparge, do you think?

I'm finishing my fly sparge plate as we speak - it may be a $4.50 part, but it may well get me to a fantastic 65% !!!

Cheers - mike
 
I brewed a bry stout on sunday.

Used Weyermann vienna as the base.

The husks held together in the crack but i got lots of powder.

mashed in and turned up the pump to recirculate and NO FLOW !!!

tipped 6 liters of rice gulls in (used 10 KG of grain in the mash for a 50 liter brew) and it flowed no worries.

will just chuck in rice hulls for the hell of it from now on. No piont stressing on wheater it will stick or not.

cheers
 
mmmm bry stout :)

jazman typing school for me :)
 
Hi Archie

I'd say the high efficiency and the stuck sparge are related. The finer the crush, the more powder, so the greater risk of a stuck sparge. I use a braid manifold, but I'm a batch sparger, so this is really not that much of a problem. Just stir, recirculate and it drains off. Cross to the dark side. :ph34r: :super:
 
Well it may have been the same problem tony had. I used wayerman pilsner as the base and same thing there seemed to be alot of powder and seemed to be cracked very fine.
it was no problem really its was just that my fly sparging took 2 hours
maybe this is why my efficiency was so good.

Anyway i will use my manifold again in the next brew and see how it goes.

Tony a few questions well one really

Rice Hulls where do you get those from and they dont have any flavour ??

Cheers Archie
 
Tony, yep your tpying is gtting mroe and moer ilke his. I especially like the rice gulls in the mash. Don't the feathers cause problems.
 
I had a stuck sparg on the weekend doing a Porter. I used 2.5kg of old munich that had been crushed ( or smashed )by Grumpys and 2kg of Trad Ale that I crushed. My crushing had heaps of intact hulls and the bloody thing stuck real good :angry: , and I run a false bottom. Once I stirred it up and added boiling water it came out fine.

I also didnt seem to lose any efficiency with the Munich thats was probably 6mnths old and stored in the freezer.

Stuck sparges to me seem to have a lot to do with the crush. I once ran the grain thru the mill twice....never..ever again will I do that :ph34r:
 
Funny I always crack the grist at least twice, often 3 and sometimes even 4 times I think I gave the last 100% wheat 5 goes, with very fine adjustments each time.
I aim to provide grist that has a lot of big husk fragments and is mostly a fine kibble with very little flour.

The trick is not to go too hard on the first run.
The first crush is a light one that breaks the bigger grains and detaches husks.
The second and or third run through is to reduce the corn to a fine kibble.

Home brewers tend to use a bigger mixture of grains than do larger commercial breweries; I routinely get orders for grain bills with Australian, English and German grains as well as having orders with lots of smaller wheat or plumper crystal.

I do not believe you can get a good crush with only one run when you are dealing with such a variety of grain.
Hell if it was that simple there wouldnt be so many 5 and 6 roller mills around.

MHB
 
This will raise some rather different points of veiw

I just have a twin roller Mil ( or the Tony Mill ) and found that setting it at .9mm gives a fantastic crush with mostly intake whole husks and a good deal of flour. I also wet the grain the stop the husks breaking up.

It should be noted that you do need a reasonable amount of flour in the crush. Sometimes up to 30 %


I would agree that different grains need different setting on the mill. Just ask Tony when he crushed his Rye.

As far as I am concerned, I have got my mill set spot on for the grains and beers I make. And most mills would need to be set up different

I found this on the net. Some light reading.... B)

http://www.regional.org.au/au/abts/2001/w1/goldsmith.htm

In practical terms, the milling operation is designed to reduce the malt to particle sizes suitable for rapid extraction and enzymic digestion, maximum extract yield and throughput. However, maximum extract yield is achieved with a fine grind while maximum throughput is achieved with a coarse grind, thus the brewer needs to find a balance.

The objectives of milling are to:

1. Split the husk longitudinally, exposing and separating the endosperm, without tearing the hulls

2. Crush the endosperm allowing complete wetting and therefore rapid extraction and enzymic digestion.

3. Minimise the quantity of fine flour produced.

Therefore the ideal grist for wort filtration in a lauter tun would contain:

1. No intact kernels

2. The majority of husks split end to end with no endosperm attached

3. The endosperm reduced to a uniform small particle size, called grits

4. A minimum of fine flour.

When used in combination with lauter tuns, the majority of brewers use six roller dry mills, as shown in Figure 1. A fluted feed roller aligns the grain so they are presented in a lengthwise manner to the first pair of reduction rollers. The grain is split longitudinally and kept reasonably intact. The mixture is then separated through vibrating screens, with fine flour falling through to the grist case and small grits being screened to the third pair of rollers. Hard endosperms are separated from the husk in the second pair of rollers, along with coarse grits. The mixture is again separated through vibrating screens, with flour and husks falling to the grist case and remaining grits being delivered to the third pair of rollers.

For good lauter tun performance Briggs et al suggest that the grist should contain 15% husks, 23% coarse grits, 30% fine grits and 32% flour, while Kunze suggests that the grist should consist of 18% husk, 8% coarse grits, 56% fine grits and 18% flour. In fact, the optimum grist size distribution is dependent on a brewerys specific requirements for extract yield and throughput, the modification of the malt and the loading on the lauter tun.
 
Agreed, everything in the article you have quoted is spot-on, for a brewery.

I am pretty sure if I start handing out grist with 30% flour I will have some very unhappy customers. On your own equipment with the same or similar grain bill you can get your system dialled in the way you like it I am cracking grain for around 20 mashers all of whom have differing systems.

We make provision for people to specify the type of grist they want and there is a lot of feedback. Its a learning thing for both the customers and the shop. We are always talking to customers to improve the results they get, the grist that works best in a herms system isnt an optimum crush for a batch sparger.

The point you make about steep conditioning is a good one. Pre-softening the husks should dramatically improve the size of the husk fraction. Naturally this option isnt one I can apply, unfortunately.

I think from memory Kunze suggests 1.6 - 0.8 - 0.4 mm gaps (give or take) for 5 and 6 roller mills, I have been trying to achieve similar results by multi passing the grain.

Some customers have reported 10-15% improvements in efficiency, just by changing the grist so hopefully we are on the right track.

MHB
 
I guess it is dependent on your setup, but when I get a stuck sparge I just make several cuts in the grainbed with a big knife and the runoff starts again with no drama.
 
Rice Gulls where do you get those from and they dont have any flavour ??

Cheers Archie


Craftbrewer sells rice gulls,they are a bit bulky for postage


A Rice Gull, been mashed at too higher temperture

Batz
 
oohhh, pretty bird. havin a little nap in the sun.
 
Ahhhh and they will forever be known as........ :)

I Do crack a bit fine.

I find that my nill will do a perfect crack at 0.9mm with JW pils or ale and MO ale but as soon as i go to german base malts like vienna or munich the grain smashes up more. must be the extra toasting of the malt.

I got my rice gulls form G&G a while back. they worked a treat in the bry stout.

waiting on a postage quote from ross on some rice gulls now actually, im all out.

Stu...... oh god, dont bring up the rye mash..... i still have nightmares. 16 liters of rice gulls and it still didnt want to flow.
I have also run it through the mill twice....... might as well use plain flour in the mash........ nasty :)

cheers
 
Ahhhh and they will forever be known as........ :)

MINE.jpg
 
I have my grain mill set to 0.9mm the knurling is a touch too fine ,I do the "Tony damp grain crush method"
the grain is really crushed flat and the husk seperates nicely .

I mashed with a kilo extra grainbill this weekend than I normally do ,and It seemed slow so I put the HLT pipe disconnect on the bottom of the tun and pumped a few litres of sparge water up the bottom of the tun ,

"Them crushed grains dont like it up their bottom" ( anal irrigation) :blink:

I reconnected the disconnects and recirculated and it went well from then on.

I was thinking of a good idea

I underlet and I thought before I add the grain I may sift a bit to get the husks and put the husks at the bottom of the tun first rather than too much flour ,so there is a good filter in the base of the tun . B)

Comments please !!

Pumpy :)
 
As the NEW owner of a Baaarley Crusher...
Already stuffed my first mini AG...(Not due to the Crusher.. :p )..
Any suggestions on settings ..tricks..etc..
MY first one got stuck..overcame that..looking forward to stuffing the next one up... :D
Cheers
PJ
 
As the NEW owner of a Baaarley Crusher...
Already stuffed my first mini AG...(Not due to the Crusher.. :p )..
Any suggestions on settings ..tricks..etc..
MY first one got stuck..overcame that..looking forward to stuffing the next one up... :D
Cheers
PJ

PJ your not a real brewer unless you had a stuck sparge ,

I still cant work it out first one I had for ages

Pumpy :)
 

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