Strange Taste In Every Brew

[Inge]

Hi Inge,

I had an infection issue a couple of years ago and started my own thread of woe at the time... got lots of good advice and suggestions, PMs, and spoke to a few brewers on the phone. I have always been fairly thorough (anal) with sanitation so the thought that it was an infection didn't seem possible to me. Well... it was! From time to time you will see threads from experienced brewers getting infections - it happens! Could be some environmental issue (time of year, winds)... could be taps, fermenters, who knows?

From my experience here is my advice:
1. take some suspect beers to experienced brewers and/or your local home brew shop for a taste test. When I did this my lhbs said "definitely an infection". I had some other brewers confirm this as well.
2. Keep it simple until you have eliminated or located the problem. e.g. do a few K+K brews or fresh wort kit brews. Once OK, do a simple AG. Personally, I wouldn't be spending 4-6 hours on a brewday until the simple issues are eliminated.
3. If you're still having problems with the simple brews - buy new fermenters, taps, hoses.... move your brew and/or fermentation location... clean the crap out of your brew and fermenting areas... get some help!

For my problem I suspected environmental issues and/or fermenter. I bought a new fermenter and retired the suspect one. I then completely cleaned out the area in which I fermented beer (a storage area in which I used to keep surf boards, fishing gear, etc), then sprayed around a bleach solution, then did a few K+K brews before doing an AG one. I've since moved but its all good now (other than one brew I tipped out a few months ago - my no chill jerrycan leaked and sucked in air - the other half of the same batch was fine).

In the depths of my despair I really thought I had lost 7 brews in a row! It was really depressing. In the end, 4 of the suspect brews were fine... don't just keep brewing without help and a methodical approach to address the problem or you will soon become very discouraged.

Good luck!

Andrei

All noted. I've cleaned out the brewing area, will probably put on a kit and kilo. If everything goes well, I'll do an AG.

 

[brendanos]

I don't use lids, glad wrap always worked well for me

...for any particular reason?

 

[Inge]

...for any particular reason?

Pretty yeasties.

That and the taller fermenters don't fit in the fridge with an airlock fitted :lol:

 

[brendanos]

It scares me when people ditch their lids for glad wrap - but maybe I'm just paranoid. How long do you leave your beer before bottling? And are the fermenters always in the fridge at a constant temp (excusing the last brew and the power outages) until you bottle?

 

[pint of lager]

Inge, the beers that you have found suspect, are they all partials and ag's? Are these the first ag and partials you have done? Or have you done other partials and ag's and they have been fine? Just thinking that it may possibly be a problem with your grain technique. Are you oversparging? Squeezing the grain? Adding acid to drop pH? Using lots of minerals to adjust water profile? Sparge water too hot?

Grain dust is notorious for causing infections. If any of your brew area has grain dust, this may be the culprit.

No chill is also an area that will cause problems unless you are really solid on sanitation and technique. Have you no chilled overnight and pitched the next day? This method means any no chill issues are less likely.

 

[TasChris]

Couple of other sources of possible infection are;

Condensation pooling ontop of the glad wrap then leaking back into the fermenter through any holes in the glad wrap.

I realised during a moment of clarity that I was sanitising my fermenters etc then rinsing in cold water straight from the water tank thus undoing the sanitising. I have noticed that if I leave a water bottle with my tank water in it in the sun it turns green within 2 weeks.

I also switch between different sanitisers from time to time to try and prevent any immunity issues
Cheers
Chris

 

[Inge]

It scares me when people ditch their lids for glad wrap - but maybe I'm just paranoid. How long do you leave your beer before bottling? And are the fermenters always in the fridge at a constant temp (excusing the last brew and the power outages) until you bottle?

AFAIK lots of people use glad wrap with no detrimental effects. I don't poke any holes in it, the CO₂ has no problem escaping under the O-ring.
My ferm schedule usually goes like this. 2 weeks primary @ 18, crash chill, 1 week secondary @ 4, rack to keg and cold condition.

Pint of Lager, these were my first AGs so it may be a technique issue, but it doesn't explain the same flavour in the K+K. I am mindful of grain dust, and dough in around the corner away from the hosing and cube. I crack all my grain at the LHBS.

I don't think I am oversparging, I don't squeeze the grain. I do add a little gypsum to the mash, about a level teaspoon (we have very soft rainwater), but I haven't modified the pH of the mash. How would I go about doing this? Sparge water is around 80 degrees. Either way, I'll slap on a k + k on Saturday. Everything was in caustic overnight, and this time I'll be using a different fermenter, so hopefully if it's infection it will be gone.

 

[Inge]

Fermentation has finished on a K + K. Coopers Australian Pale, with 1kg DME and Cascade hops. Everything has been soaked in caustic soda, fermenter lid replaced, new airlock, cleaned with pink neo, sanitised with peroxide and iodophor, just to be safe. New tap, everything went smoohtly, fementation took 8 days at 17-18 degrees. Regularly checked for condensation on the lid - not a drop. I've stuffed the freezer compartment with towels to prevent dripping. Tasted ok while fermenting.

Crash chilled, now it's got that taste again.

It CAN'T be my gear.

 

[Stuster]

Could still be your gear. Have you got anybody to give these beers a taste? Is it still in the original fermenter or did you rack it?

 

[newguy]

What sort of yeast did you use for this and the other batches that went south? Your description of a plastic taste strongly suggests a wild yeast infection. If you can rule out the sanitation of your equipment, the next logical cause is the yeast.

 

[mika]

PM me, I like weird tasting beer

 

[Julez]

Has to be something airborne or the gear. Sounds like you have pretty much eliminated all process issues by repeating the problem with a K+K...

Either this, or the beer is fine and you have the bug :lol:

Seems a few people have said the plastic fermenters can be unsalvagable once they get scuffed up and bugs nestle into the surface pits. Surely that is the last thing to do, swap for a glass fermenter?

I was thinking it had something to do with oxidation (which can occur from as low as 26 degrees C) or temp inaccuracies due to a possibly dodgy thermometer (e.g. sparge temps too high - should be no more than 76 degrees according to Palmer and others). I was also wondering if the no chill cube had a lot of headspace. Even though I know you were just chilling overnight then pitching, I worry about the time the wort is exposed to oxygen in the cube if there is excess head space. And DMS from the slow chill. But that's a whole new can of worms. Either way, your K+K would suggest none of this applies... :huh:

I reckon a new glass fermenter is in order...

 

[Julez]

or one of these http://www.better-bottle.com/

 

[rh1an5]

glad wrap, i can see that working, the girlfriends grandpa told me he uses a towl, no lid , a towl, ferments for 3-4 days and then botttles, i can imagine soem strange tastes out of that

 

[paul]

When I was using a plastic fermenter I used glad wrap. I now use a glass saucepan lid.

Dont some of the breweries do open fermentation with no lid at all?

 

[Darren]

I would put the lid back on your fermenter if you are getting successive "bad" batches.

I would also buy a new fermenter.

cheers

Darren

 

[andreic]

Fermentation has finished on a K + K. Coopers Australian Pale, with 1kg DME and Cascade hops. Everything has been soaked in caustic soda, fermenter lid replaced, new airlock, cleaned with pink neo, sanitised with peroxide and iodophor, just to be safe. New tap, everything went smoohtly, fementation took 8 days at 17-18 degrees. Regularly checked for condensation on the lid - not a drop. I've stuffed the freezer compartment with towels to prevent dripping. Tasted ok while fermenting.

Crash chilled, now it's got that taste again.

It CAN'T be my gear.

It CAN'T be your AG brewing gear because you didn't use this... but it can still be your fermenting gear...

1. Get someone experienced to taste this beer!
2. Get a new fermenter!

You crash chilled the beer and got the taste again - how'd you do this? Did you crash chill in the fermenter by dropping the fermentation fridge temp? If so - probably chuck out your fermenter and buy a new one! If you transferred to another fermenter or cube to crash chill - maybe this is where it went wrong (but get a new fermenter anyway).

When I had problems almost 2 years ago - I cleaned the crap out of my brewing / transfer / bottling areas and retired my 2 fermenters, racking tubes, taps and started with fresh fermenting gear. I even started transferring beer from fermenter to bulk prime vessel in a different room. Perhaps the caustic and subsequent cleaning simply didn't get your fermenter clean of the bug, or something else happened - such as an environmental issue.

In any case - if you can, get some help! You want to try and minimise the number of failed brews and time it takes to get this right or you'll start to get very discouraged (if not already)...

cheers, Andrei

 

[Inge]

The fermenter I used wasn't the same one as before - I decided to not take a chance and have retired that one to storage duties. Crash chilled in the fridge.
Perhaps it's me. The taste is there, nowhere near as noticeable as last time. Maybe I'm paranoid and tasting things that aren't there. Yeast was S-05.

Maybe it's acetaldehyde or something and I'm sensitive to it.

I think I'm going nuts!

I'm going to let it rest for a few days and if there's no change I'll do the rounds and get a couple of opinions. Might take you up on the offer mika, seeing as though you are just round the corner.

E: Also, might set fire to the inside of the fermenting fridge, just to be safe.

 

[matr]

Only a thought but reading through this it seems to me the common denominator is when you chill it??? (Correct me if I'm wrong)

You're obviously chilling it in a fridge / freezer???? Maybe it's something to do with that?? Maybe try not chilling?

 

[Stuster]

E: Also, might set fire to the inside of the fermenting fridge, just to be safe.

Definitely the best answer. :lol:

Get a few opinions from experienced people. You're right, it might just be you.