Straight Into Ag?

[Wardhog]

AG brewing would be pretty easy to get turned off of. You outlay $$$, and what if your first two batches get infected? You could not be blamed for dropping this hobby like a hot scone. Kits are a good minimal risk way to get used to what happens in the second half of the brewing process. AG is doing the first half a better way, the second half remains the same.

Infections DO happen, they just get fewer and further between the more experienced you are. And to tip an entire batch that took you a lot of effort to make is a heart-breaking thing.

Besides, what do you get in a beginner kit that you can't reuse, apart from the goo, sugar and yeast? I'd still be using my original fermenter today if I hadn't traded it for another bit of gear. I still use the bottle brush and hydrometer.

 

[Effect]

I disagree with Phillip. I went straight to AG, made my equipment out of old Mayo buckets, insulated with a sleeping bag and bought a massive stock pot. Have upgraded now, but I don't see why you can't start at AG. I haven't looked back.

I am going to delve straight into AG myself...for me I don't need to slowly learn my way up to AG. But that is me...I was just throwing some other ideas around with the whole 'never brewed before - should I start at the beginning or go straight to AG?'.

I don't understand the whole aura surrounding AG as something extremely hard - butters I think wrote "it's like doing packet cake, and then doing it from scratch realizing that it isn't all that hard'.

But to each his own...if I didn't know much about brewing beer and was um-ing and ar-ing about it I would do the coopers homebrew kit first...then decide if I like it (like I did with the DJing).

 

[Swizzle]

Inspiring, bloody inspiring.

I've been doing kits for a while now and have had some real successes. Couple of gatherings recently I've had people say my kit beers - with added grain and hops - have tasted nicer than the factory stuff they were drinking, in one case Stella and the other guiness so I was pretty happy about that.

The thought of AG far outclassing what I reckon have been good kits is making me thirsty tho. It's only a matter of time and I'll be there with bells on!

 

[Wardhog]

I don't understand the whole aura surrounding AG as something extremely hard

It actually isn't hard. But it's easier to understand when you've got some practical experience with kit and kilo first.

Brewing a beer takes a long time from grain to brain, in most cases. What if you spent the last year understanding AG theory, spend lots of money, wait impatiently for however many weeks the beer you chose to make normally makes, only to find out it's an undrinkable infected disgusting mess? And then it happens again on your second batch?

I don't know anyone who would persevere past that point, I'd give up, too. If you are someone who would keep going, then I tip my hat to you - but understand you're in the minority.

In short, at the start, you're likely to make a few duds. Will you persevere if you do? Yes? Jump straight into AG. Unsure? Do a couple of kits first.

 

[petesbrew]

Just the thought of an infected AG makes me wanna cry. Considering the 6 or so hours involved in brewing, and the beautiful smells that go with it.
My 3rd Partial was infected, man I was devastated. The next few K&k's afterwards were infected too. Took a few infected batches before my beers were drinkable again.

Basically I shed less tears over an infected kit. When I'm planning an AG (up to my 3rd now), a LOT of thought goes into the recipe, and looking for recipe feedback. I want to get it right.

 

[Katherine]

I did about 15 -16 K & K, extracts before moving on to AG.... I love the BIAB concept and that is how I brew, I find it alot easier then to understand then extracts.

 

[komodo]

Ok well who can suggest a GOOD home brew supply store around either the Berwick, Moorabbin or Frankston areas?

 

[seemax]

Ok well who can suggest a GOOD home brew supply store around either the Berwick, Moorabbin or Frankston areas?

Brewcraft/Liqourcraft has a store in Oakleigh South, but caters mostly for K&K, the do sell grain but have limited range and overpriced. They do however have decent range of dry yeast at reasonable prices.

I get my grain from either Grain&Grape (they do online orders too) or Greensborough Home Brewing.

Not sure if there are any HBS down Frankston/South way.

 

[datman510]

i just bottled my second ever kit and am just finishing building my AG setup as i find adding hot water to powder about as interesting as netball.... i expect to stuff up but to quote the great UFC fighter mark coleman, you learn more from losing than you do winning. with that im going to stuff up my first brew this saturday morn, be on here in the arvo asking what i did wrong then trying again next week and repeat...

if you believe you can do and can afford it go for it everyone has to learn some way sometime....

stay classy melbourne...

 

[trevc]

Go for it, it's a world of better (real) beer, and you have the support of everyone here. Cans of goo are boring.

 

[datman510]

if you want come round when i try this one.... we'll balls it up together

 

[AndrewQLD]

Times are different now, back in the day of my first brewing attempts (25+yrs ago) you were hard pressed to even buy kits. Information on brewing was non existent and ingredients were impossible to find. So all grain brewing was a pipe dream, extract brewing was common but there was no info available to show you the way (apart from UK journals and books).

25 yrs on and with resources like AHB, brewing magazines and books there's no reason why you can't start your brewing career as an all grainer. Everything is at your figure tips now, including detailed instructions on building any type of brewing system you could possibly want, from the simplest to the most extravagant. Full recipe databases abound and all you need to know about mash, fermentation, yeasts and grains is right here.

If I was to start again I would cut straight to All grain, not because I think it's a better method but that I enjoy the method so much. To me it's just as much about the process as the results.

In short if you love beer, have an interest in the technical side of things and don't mind a bit of an outlay to get yourself started then All Grain is the way to go.


Andrew

 

[trevc]

I wanted to add one more thing.

If I were to start AG all over, I would definitely go BIAB. I'd likely plan/build a nice large electric BIAB vessle. The ultimate in simplicity, minimal clean-up, less space, and no propane tanks to fill. The toughest part would be working out how many elements and power requirements, controlling it, etc.

- Electric BIAB
- No-chill
- Spend the money you save on more kegs and taps! (or a canning machine, that'd be awesome).

Not very conventional or traditional, but I see no reason why that sort of setup couldn't produce great beer (assuming you've done all your homework).

Edit: bad spellering.

 

[Duff]

If I was to start again I would cut straight to All grain, not because I think it's a better method but that I enjoy the method so much. To me it's just as much about the process as the results.

I agree. I think of all the times when I was playing golf as a junior and always wanting a set of blades (AG) instead of cavity backs (K&K). Several pros said I was mad, given that the cavity backs had a sweet spot the size of a 20c piece compared with a 5c piece with the blades. **** them I thought and went out and bought a set of blades with my first tax return. They taught me to swing better and more consistently which saw my handicap drop from 14 to 3. I still have them 17 years later :wub:

Go straight to AG, it will make you a better brewer.

 

[haysie]

Ok well who can suggest a GOOD home brew supply store around either the Berwick, Moorabbin or Frankston areas?

Any of the sponsors above
FRESH, FRESH, FRESH,
I buy plastics, taps, locks etc from my lhbs (narre warren) but if you want quality fresh grains, specialties, hops, liquid yeast, look no further than the above.

not to mention, they will even crush it for you.

 

[Ross]

Times are different now, back in the day of my first brewing attempts (25+yrs ago) you were hard pressed to even buy kits. Information on brewing was non existent and ingredients were impossible to find. So all grain brewing was a pipe dream, extract brewing was common but there was no info available to show you the way (apart from UK journals and books).

25 yrs on and with resources like AHB, brewing magazines and books there's no reason why you can't start your brewing career as an all grainer. Everything is at your figure tips now, including detailed instructions on building any type of brewing system you could possibly want, from the simplest to the most extravagant. Full recipe databases abound and all you need to know about mash, fermentation, yeasts and grains is right here.

If I was to start again I would cut straight to All grain, not because I think it's a better method but that I enjoy the method so much. To me it's just as much about the process as the results.

In short if you love beer, have an interest in the technical side of things and don't mind a bit of an outlay to get yourself started then All Grain is the way to go.


Andrew

+1

I went straight into extract brewing for approx 12 months. In hindsight all it really taught me was I never want to go back there.... B)
All-grain is not difficult - Get yourself invited to a brewday & you won't look back.


cheers Ross

 

[komodo]

Well I stumbled back across this thread and I thought I might update it for anyone asking the same question.

I ended up going to a brewday at Grain and Grape (Yarraville, Victoria) and seeing a 3 vessel brew day done on a mostly plastic brewery (plastic HLT with basic thermostat control, plastic mash tun with falsie and a "just big enough" kettle. That was it I needed to do that!
So I pieced together a basic brewery using mayo style buckets, a kettle style heating element which I at first controlled completely manually! and a copper manifold type mash tun with no insulation. For a kettle I bought 2 of the 20 L SS pots available cheaply at bigW and I split my boil betweeen the two.

Would I suggest people jump straight into AG - heck yes!
But I would probably suggest you buy a coopers or similar type kit and get your fermenter and associated gear that way. That way you get everything you need and you can wack down a "kit" brew and build up your stocks quickly. I ended up buying a kit later on and doing a couple of kit brews to fill kegs and to get bottles (for cider and left overs) and a spare fermenter. Even if you only wack down one kit brew its a relatively cost effective way of getting all the gear - plus you can judge how good your beers really taste compared to kits!

Things I've learned - dont try re-invent the wheel when your first learning. Do research - but dont scare yourself by over researching - worst case you have a brew thats not what you expected and mostly that can be fixed with a bit of thought.
Infections aren't hard to avoid with a proper cleaning regime.
Kits arent a bad place to start - they really arent that bad when brewed properly - temp control is the key. fridge mate and an old bar fridge is a cheap investment for reliable temp control! (provided you have ths space obviously)

One last thing - dont discount BIAB. I did and inhind sight (especially after seeing a BIAB brewday this weekend just gone ran by ThirstyBoy and SpillsMostOfIt at grain and grape) I really should have persued this type of brewing method. It avoids a lot of beginner trouble spots and you can concentrate more on brewing and less on controlling your brewery - somthing i've at times struggled with with my plastic bucket brewery. Plus if you ever do want to side step to 3V brewing you only have to get a bit more gear - nothing is wasted / no longer used!

Oh and another thing - get to brewdays if you can. You can read everything and still not appreciate methods untill you see them with your own eyes. Its not rocket science and seeing it in real life makes it a whole lot clearer.

 

[tele29]

Good on ya mate

I jumped straight into AG with the BIAB method, did my first brew just over a week ago and it is nearly ready for bottling. I was falling into the trap of over-researching everything and trying to make it too technical, and one afternoon I just said to myself "hey, people have been maiking the stuff for hundreds of years before the internet and books and home brew kits, it can't be that hard!"

And it wasn't. It went really well and I am doing it again this weekend. Cheers!

 

[mje1980]

Good on ya mate

I jumped straight into AG with the BIAB method, did my first brew just over a week ago and it is nearly ready for bottling. I was falling into the trap of over-researching everything and trying to make it too technical, and one afternoon I just said to myself "hey, people have been maiking the stuff for hundreds of years before the internet and books and home brew kits, it can't be that hard!"

And it wasn't. It went really well and I am doing it again this weekend. Cheers!

This is very true, it IS a simple process that really doesnt need too much overthinking, or overblinging. Don't get me wrong, i love looking at the bling setups, and the guys who get very technical can come up with useful tips and info, but you dont need to get that far into it to make great beer.

Crush,mash, sparge, boil,cool,ferment, bottle/keg, drink.

 

[geoffi]

This is very true, it IS a simple process that really doesnt need too much overthinking, or overblinging. Don't get me wrong, i love looking at the bling setups, and the guys who get very technical can come up with useful tips and info, but you dont need to get that far into it to make great beer.

Crush,mash, sparge, boil,cool,ferment, bottle/keg, drink.

I'll go along with that, although I'd amend it a bit...

Crush,mash, sparge, boil,cool, CLEAN, SANITISE, ferment, bottle/keg, drink.

No matter how simple or complex your set up is, you can still make top-notch beer...but you must you pay attention to cleanliness and sanitation or it'll end in tears, not beers.

Anybody who couldn't be arsed with all that stuff...well, there is stamp collecting.