Stout 'lager'?

[Gough]

Does anyone know much about brewing stouts/porters with Lager yeasts?? I've heard that the Cascade stout from Tassie is brewed with a Lager yeast and it isn't bad. Have any of you guys done it and if so how did it turn out? Any feedback gratefully received.

Thought I might have a stab at it myself and was looking for some tips re extract recipes. My thoughts on sugars would be 3kg Dark LME (NZ) and maybe 150 gm Chocolate grain steeped. Saflager s-23 or W34/70 yeast. What type/ combination of hops would you guys suggest? Like I said I'm keen on suggestions, and input on whether you think it would work.

Thanks in advance,

Gough. :chug:

 

[jayse]

there seems to be a few porters using lager yeast now james squires is a commercial one.and ive read a lot of american micro breweries use lager yeast as do other home craft brewers.
i see no ones posted on here and its been awhile so maybe noone has any information.id like to give it a go never actually made any dark lager ill see what i can come up with
is porter made with lager yeast ussually made to the porter guidelines?

 

[GMK]

Porter ingredients

I just made my first Robust Porter.
Very nice.
I added 100gms of Dark compound cooking choc, 200 dark brown sugar, 200 lactose, 1kg amber malt to Coopers Dark Ale can.
Steeped 100 roast Barley, 250 choc, 250 xtal and 250 light xtal for 4 hours in cold water.

Used 25gms POR for the 30min boil, 25 gms EKG for last 10 mins.

Dry hopped with Cascade.

The Choc really adds mouth feel and a nice choc taste.
Pitched Windsor Ale Yeast.

Hope this helps and gives you guys some ideas.

 

[jayse]

gmk sounds good not what iam looking for though

my porters are all malt and no roasted barley the style doesnt call for that in real porters only roasted malt is used not roast barley
and personal preference lactose urgh yuk!!not putting that in there

my latest robust is
4 kg imc pale ale malt
1 kg munich
350 g dark crystal
170 black malt

30 ibu goldings 60 mins
28 g goldings10 mins
28 g goldings 5 mins

london ale yeast
there plenty of choc like notes. no need to put chocalate in there

 

[GMK]

Jayse,

Your recipee looks godd.
As to the roast - try it some time. I hate these people taht say you cant have this in there or that...you should try my hoppy FES or KERIS with spices.

When you go through the boks at research the styles - half the time that dont know what was in them...records lost, style not made for ages...i know for judging you need a critera - but with these style guidelines there is no real room or depth for creativity.

The scots used to bitter their ales with the scotish thistle - hops were not grown there and they were controlled by the english and helishly expensive. Therefore, being scots - used thistles instead.
Brew a scotish ale bittered with thistles and see how you go.

The lactose is to aid in the balance....i use it in all my dark ales and stouts.

Again - the best thing about homebrewing is being able to experiment.

 

[jayse]

GMK
thanx for the follow up post it seems many people read this forum but not enough are posting their 2 cents worth.
i agree with your thoughts on styles and it would seem a better beer would not place when judged but a inferior beer would win because it fits the style.
anyway i posted that about roast barley because you called it a robust porter iam sure you new that but just for anyone else reading who is unsure about porters.
nice little bit about the scotts dont think ill be using thistles in the near future though.

still i dont want to use lactose. have you tried oatmeal in a part mash for your darkies?

cheers jayse

 

[GMK]

I have used oats.

Dont know if i like oats...it does make it a bit thicker and a little oily.
Increases mouthfeel, but i dont know when i will be using them again.

 

[Snow]

Jayse,

I used oats in my last extra stout partial mash. It gave it a lovely creamy texture. I can't pick a particular "oaty" flavour, but it does add to the mouthfeel and probably creaminess of the head. I'll certainly use them again.

Cheers - Snow.

 

[deebee]

Snow (and others)

How do you recommend using the oatmeal? At what stage do you add it and how much to use?

Thanks

 

[Snow]

Deebee,

Using a large grain bag, I partial mashed 350g of oats (flaked/rolled) with 1kg pale malt (for the conversion enzymes) in 6L water for 75 mins at 66 C, then sparged with 2L water at 77 C. It was just a basic sparge in a colander, so I didn't have any problems with it blocking up.

Hope that helps.

Cheers - Snow.

 

[jayse]

i havent used them yet but planning a stout with rolled quick oats
ive got a brew mag with a recipe for my starting point it also calls for steel cut oats(IRISH OATMEAL) which it says only goes in the boil for the last 45 mins.it doesnt give any info on what they are though first thoughts are though that surely such a grain would need to be mashed with a malt with enzymes.
anyway its from a U.S brew mag so surely it must be correct any one got any info on these steel cut oats.also still waiting to hear from someone using lager yeast in there darkies.


heres the recipe for anyone interested

4.1 kg pale malt/i might use pale ale malt that was wicked in my last porter.
450 g 60l crystal
90 g black malt
90 g choc malt
360 g roast barley
450 g rolled quick oats

230g steel cut oats in mesh bag in boil for last 45 mins

40 ibu chinnook 60 mins

irish 1084 yeast

thanx and cheers jayse

 

[Gough]

I'm still keen to hear of people's thoughts on Lager yeasts in blacks/stouts. That's why I started the thread in the first place . I haven't gone ahead myself yet, putting a Bock down instead. So what do you lot reckon? Nyone else tried the Cascade Stout with the lager yeast? Not bad IMO,

Gough.

 

[Linz]

I have tried the Cascade stout and I did enjoy it quite a bit.As for using a lager yeast on a stout or porter recipie....dude go for it!

If it works out great, you'll be the first on this list to do it and can brag about it here. If it dont ..send us all a bottle of it and we'll all sit down and drink it together.

In my opinion I feel the lager yeast would clean/crisp up the flavours of the pale malt and enhance the roast/black malt flavours in the recipie.

...just my opinion :huh:

 

[Gout]

If ya all to scared I'll try it in a few batches but its going to take time so i say try it! thats what home brew is all about!!!!


cant be as bad as my fuggles lager YUCK i am still on the same pot.... GRRRRR

a halletau lager waits, then the mash / hallertau mmmm yum!

at least i wont finish this keg soon giving the others a few months to lager in the kegs (after 2 weeks 2ndry) they should be fine!

then the stouts and wheat beer will be ready


ahhhhh the life of a beer brewer you gotta love it!

 

[Gough]

I won't be doing any bragging either way. Was just interested to see whether anyone else had tried it and if so whether it had worked. I'll give it a go and send you a bottle Linz either way. Lets hope it doesn't suck too much and we'll both have something good to drink! :chug:

Gough.

 

[jayse]

got to agree about fuggles(hmm i wont buy them again,god in a lager, ohwell the best way to learn)and hallertau yum that rocks.i was thinking of using them in this dark lager type beer.

mayde use 2112 cause thats the only lager yeast ive got. most dark lagers dont call for hop flavour and aroma but ive made a few dark ales with nice citricy flavours so iam looking for some spicy hop notes. and maybe even fruity flavours.

living the brewers life you almost want to tip them bad beers out a fill it with good beer more reason to brew again.depends if you want to waste $25 worth of ingredients.its worth trying different stuff with it add water a hop tea, lactose if its a dark beer.(boiled if you like for more flavour etc).
anyway the race is on for a dark lager home brew style.

edit
when i said dark lager i meant full bodied dark beer with lager yeast