Storage prior to kegging

[jcav]

Hi all I'm looking at how to store my brews prior to kegging. I want to run 2 x 18L kegs and 2 x 4L kegs with a different brew in each.

I know i can store the brew and then just fill the 18L kegs easy enough.

But how should I store the other brews. Ie if i have 23L in a fermenter then transfer 4 to a keg. How should I store the roughly 19L in a way that if I need to top up the 4l keg again that I dont ruin the brew or contaminate it .

 

[Maheel]

i would be storing in cold 18L kegs and then transferring to the 4L using co2 from 18L out post to 4L out post
half filled fermenters does not sound good to me.... as you will pull in oxygen when you transfer if just using gravity

= buy your self some more 18L kegs + maybe a bigger keg fridge or 2nd storage fridge etc

 

[FarsideOfCrazy]

After having a brew day with a pro brewer the other day it was his advice that the beer should be taken of the yeast as soon as fermentation is complete. So with his conicals the used yeast is dumped.

With a plastic fermenter this is a bit tricky as it would require draining into another vessel, which increases the risk of infection and oxgen exposure.

I have generally left the beer on the yeast cake for about 3-4 weeks (after reading info on forums) and now I'm thinking this has probably been why my lagers and pilsners haven't been great.

So my next brew I'm going to empty the fermenter as soon as fermentation is complete and transfer into the kegs for lagering and settling.

 

[jcav]

Yeah that makes sense.

I'm thinking about pulling it out of the original fermentor into a secondary container then purging any oxygen from that container with co2. Then if you take any out of the container Ie 4 litres you would purge with CO2 at the same time.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person that's had this problem I figure someone else might have a good solution to it.

 

[MHB]

Yes your right, its been asked before and Maheel gave you the right answer, perhaps not the one you want to hear but the one that works best.
These days kegs are so cheap that the smart option is to rack the finished beer into a keg, you can add enough sugar (fermentable) to condition the beer (pressure and active yeast help remove any O2 and suppress bugs), there would be enough pressure to push beer into your small kegs. Or as above keep the beer cold and use CO2 to transfer.

Beer stores best. 1/ Off the old yeast. 2/ Under Pressure. 3/Cold. 4/Still (not getting sloshed around). Treat it right and you will get better beer.
Remember that most plastic containers aren't opaque to Oxygen, means that even a well purged full, plastic container will let the beer take up Oxygen, it will travel through the plastic, all be it slowly.
Mark

 

[jcav]

Thanks. Will this still work if the yeast is filtered out.

 

[MHB]

Depends what you mean by "filtered" if you got all the yeast out, no, you would need to reseed or make sure there was some yeast in the keg.
But (as always) what most home brewers call filters (1micron absolute) are really just fine sieves and plenty of yeast will get through, well enough to condition the beer on the other side.
Mark

 

[Maheel]

MHB has explained and added lots more great info.

i now pressure ferment and cold crash in kegs so it transfers mostly fully carbed and cold, i have / had nearly forgotten that you may need to naturally carb the kegs if storing "hot" etc.

In the end it will mostly depend on your current ferment process, how you carb, store etc and if you want to buy more equipment

 

[jcav]

Thanks guys. Its a wealth of information. So it looks like hot storage and partial decanting in a plastic container is not really possible?

 

[moonhead]

I would just use kegs as storage. They're the perfect vessel for it, air tight, opaque, holds pressure, easy to transfer into/out of. Anything else and you're just going to introduce problems. This system would work great for what you've described, you can store the bulk of the beer in 20L kegs, and transfer into 4L kegs for serving. With kegs you can do pressurised transfers into pre-purged vessels, meaning no oxygen introduction from the process.

 

[koshari]

Scale brews back to 20l and as moons says just use kegs for storage.

 

[altone]

Scale brews back to 20l and as moons says just use kegs for storage.

Yep, exactly what I do, make keg sized brews to keep it all simple.

 

[brewgasm]

I have a 23l keg that I used for k&k. Quite often I will move a 20l batch into that keg to get the beer of the trube and to safely cold crash under pressure. Then transfer to 4l, 10l or a 19l keg

 

[goatchop41]

After having a brew day with a pro brewer the other day it was his advice that the beer should be taken of the yeast as soon as fermentation is complete. So with his conicals the used yeast is dumped.

I have generally left the beer on the yeast cake for about 3-4 weeks (after reading info on forums) and now I'm thinking this has probably been why my lagers and pilsners haven't been great.

This is very different in a commercial setting vs homebrewing.
The large volumes and conical vessels used commercially mean way more hydrostatic pressure on the yeast, therefore autolysis will happen much more rapidly. In a homebrewing setting with a normal single batch sized fermenter, this isn't really an issue. 3-4 weeks won't be a negative, especially so if you're down at lagering temps.
If you're having issues with lagers, then your yeast related issues are likely coming before/during fermentation. It would be very unlikely to have negative yeast-related issues simply from having the beer on the yeast for a few weeks under negligible pressure.

 

[S.E]

So it looks like hot storage and partial decanting in a plastic container is not really possible?

Yes it is possible. If you don’t have enough kegs you could rack to cubes till kegs are available. Bests not to store them hot though. If you are only transferring to your 2x 4L kegs either top up the cube with co2 or re prime the remaining beer in the cube.

 

[jcav]

Ok thanks everyone.

Kegs not refrigerated are an option. I dont have much room for another fridge/freezer. I'm not really concerned about saving a few litres.

I'd like 4 different brews 2 beer and 1 cider and a ginger beer on tap. But only have room for a small bar fridge. I think i can get 2 x 4L kegs in behind my 19s. Hence the problem with the leftover few litres.

What are cubes?

Also I'm in Central Queensland so the temps a high during summer but I'm planning in brewing during the colder months.

 

[brewgasm]

Cubes

 

[brewgasm]

Also the 23l kegs if it helps, they look alot nicer than the one I got from the them a couple of years ago

https://www.cleverbrewing.com.au/kegging/23-litre-keg-new.html

 

[jcav]

Thanks guys. Thats a great help.
Just finished my bar area too

 

[jcav]

Got all my brewing gear hidden on the other side. Just need some taps now.