Stone And Wood Ale Recipe

[Jrrj]

I'm just going to throw this out there as no ones really touched on the possibilities and I believe it's probably impossible to clone this beer with out something along these lines. I drink a ton of this beer weekly and have sat round thinking about what might be in it for a while now. I honestly think the yeast that they use in this beer is a Kolsch yeast and that is what makes this beer so unique compared to other ales in the market.

Here's a few points which made me come to this consensus. I understand all the possible arguments against my points but here I go and I've got a recently brewed recipe and a side by side photo to follow.

* The beer is usually fairly cloudy and hazey and the haze is more of a yeast haze. Characteristic of a Kolsch yeast.

* When the beer is fresh I personally get a fair amount of Sulfur out of it. Characteristic of a Kolsch yeast that mellows with age.

* Once the beer has been sitting around in the fridge for a reasonable amount of time most the yeast drops out and the beer becomes a Lager like Ale. Characteristic that the yeast manufactures also state about this strain.

* This may be my strongest point. Stone and Wood Jasper Ale is inspired by a German Alt beer and pretty much is one. I wouldn't be surprised if they us the same yeast in that beer too.

* Their Green Coast Lager is also deliberately cloudy another possibility of the use of a Kolsch yeast.

Anyway here is what I put down a few months ago now and I believe the malt and yeast character is very close. Something I dont think could be replicated with an American Ale or English Ale strain.

Grain Bill thanks to Snow:

60% Ale Malt
40% Wheat Malt
Estimated OG 1.044
Estimated FG 1.012

Yeast:

Wyeast 2565 Kolsch Yeast

Fermented at 16C. Will go a bit lower next time as it was kick'n. I think 14C would be good spot for this yeast.

Hops:

Play around and do what you think will get you close based on your system and process. I wasn't going for an exact clone just something very similar. The malt and the yeast will get you most of the way there for the overall beer. All Galaxy Pellets. (I know it's rumoured they use flowers but I had pellets on hand).

60 mins

5 mins

1 mins

WP

Dry Hop:

3 grams per litre for 3 days.

The beer will be real hazy at first after kegging due to the Kolsch Yeast and doesn't really clear up all that well for a while. But buy a bottle of Pacific Ale and roll it to get all the yeast of the bottom as per the instructions on their website and you'll find it's quite similar. Next time I reckon I'll cold crash for longer then usual, probably two weeks to get a bit more but not all of the yeast out.

Also in regards to the instructions on their website to roll the bottle and get the yeast back up in to suspension. I highly doubt you could get that much American or English Ale yeast back up in to suspension and still have such a great tasting beer.

Any way give it a crack if you like. The yeast is a major player in my opinion. And either way you'll still get a nice drinking summer ale.

Cheers

Here's the photo, the one on the right is my Home Brew.

Thanks Dan - I've been wondering about the yeast on this beer for months. My first clone attempt I just used US05 but, like you, I didn't feel like it was the right yeast. Because of other issues with that batch, I couldn't properly assess whether the yeast worked.

Another of your points that resonates with me is the sulfur - that is something I really enjoy about the commercial version, it just works so well for me in hot weather. I wasn't sure if it was yeast-driven or if they created it in the water.

I will definitely try your suggestion of Wyeast 2565 next time. The other thing I was planning to do and will eventually get around to is try to re-culture the bottle-yeast. I figure that way I can tell if the yeast gives me that flavour or if water-modification is needed too.

 

[JDW81]

The other thing I was planning to do and will eventually get around to is try to re-culture the bottle-yeast.

Do they prime with the same strain that they ferment with?

Some breweries use a different priming strain, so you may not end up with the desired result.

JD

 

[Jrrj]

On the bottle they mention it is not filtered, so even if they add more yeast to the bottles there should be something of the original left to work with. I'm guessing (and hoping) they don't bother to complicate the process.

Hopefully somewhere down the track I'll get my microscope, and getting to know the SWPA bottle yeast better would be the first thing I'd do. If there are multiple strains it would at least be theoretically (though possibly not practically) possible for me to isolate each strain and then use them accordingly.

 

[Coodgee]

do yeast strains look physically different?

 

[yankinoz]

I'm a fan, always happy as a fly in doodoo to find it on tap, who would put Stone and Wood near the border between a blonde and an APA, and that's not a bad thing.

What puzzles me is that the brewery has said they hop it only with Galaxy. Very nice and fairly unique late hop in beers of that style, but my experience and that of a few others on this site is that the bittering is harsh. If I were doing your recipe, I'd bitter with Horizon. Any others have thoughts on Stone and Wood's bittering?

No problem with pilsner malt in that style. I heart Bopils, but JW would work.

 

[Jrrj]

Coodgee - according to this site "n general you will not be able to differentiate between different strains of yeast, though some strains have larger cells than others."

So I won't hold my breath, but there's always a chance!

 

[Dan K]

One of the other things that got me thinking about the yeast possibilities was listening to The BN's Brewing With Style episode on American Wheat Beer, the earlier episode from August 2007 in the archives if people want to find it and listen to it. But in that episode Jamil talks about how he thinks the difference between a good American Wheat Beer and an award winning American Wheat Beer is the use of a Kolsch yeast. With an average American Wheat Beer grist being 50% Ale Malt and 50% Wheat Malt that really isn't far off the grist of the 60% Ale Malt 40% Wheat Malt that Snow was told buy one of the old Brewers earlier in this thread. Add some more IBUs then your average American Wheat Beer and your in Pale Ale territory. Another thing Jamil talks about in that episode is the low flocculation of the Kolsch yeast which leaves a haze.

As I've said before I may be wrong but it's worth looking into in my opinion. And all three of their core beers Pacific Ale, Green Coast Lager, and Jasper Ale have a place for the use of a Kolsch yeast. With Jasper Ale most probably being a definite as it's an Alt Beer.

Cheers

 

[technobabble66]

Update on my version. Mentioned in post #103 & #107.
Recipe is here
Basically 60:40 MO:Wheat, with 100g CaraPils & 150g Acidulated thrown in. 30g Galaxy cube-hopped & 70g Galaxy dry hopped. Fermented with WLP-051.

It's been in the bottle a while now, but it took this long to get around to grabbing a stubby of the original and doing a side by side.

The overview is its similar but needs some refinement, though it could also be something in my process instead, etc.
The colour of mine is definitely a few shades darker. Id guess, but maybe 2-4 EBC too dark
The original has a more honey-like "golden-syrup" (Lyles, not CSR) flavour, which i'd generally find in lighter, more Pilsner, malts. Or from a really pale/light crystal
The bitterness in mine is too high - maybe 5 IBUs perhaps. Not harsh, just too much.
Noticeable herbal element, which i believe came out especially after the dry hopping. So either reduce the dry hops or devise a way to pull them out after 1-2 days dry hopping, while CCing.
Wheat flavour is far too strong. Maybe just something in my process, but i'd halve the amount of wheat in the next batch.
The mouthfeel is similar, though mine is definitely over-carbed.

So basically, i'd revise my recipe to be more like 80:20 Ale:Wheat, but actually split the ale to include some pilsner.
So 53:27:20 MOilsner:Wheat, then use the same 100g CaraPils & 150g Acidulated.

I'd drop the cube hops down to 20g. And i could be tempted to split a little of this into FWH.
Drop the dry hopping to 50g maybe (reluctant!). And/or devise a way to pull the hops out, or simply rack into a secondary (effort!).

The WLP-051 seemed to work fine, but i'd probably stick to US-05 to simplify the variables.
--------

@Dan K. I've been reading your thoughts on the Kolsch Theory. All sounds brilliant and very well argued
However, to put it simply, the high wheat content is plenty to cause the haze. Mine looked identical in terms of the haze, and WLP051 normally drops fairly easily, especially after CCing, more so once it's been sitting in a cupboard for 2 months. Flavourwise it may or may not involve Kolsch. My tasting of it last night certainly didn't leave me thinking it did - i can think of a few simple ways to access the flavour elements that differentiated it from mine.
OTOH, large-scale operation have access to techniques that we don't so sometimes a home brewer may need alternatives techniques to get a clone right. I'd have doubts that the yeast is a kolsch in the original, but maybe it's an easy way to bring a recipe that's close to be closer
Just my 2c h34r:

 

[Frothy1]

I haven't found this to be the case when I use Galaxy (and i've used it a lot lately).

My current house beer is a knock of MG fancy pants, which is exclusively Galaxy. I get about 25% of my IBUs from a 60 minute addition and the remainder from a massive cube hop and it gives me a beautiful smooth bitterness. Having said that I rarely use my 60 minute addition to give me more than ~30% of my IBUs in hop forward beers.

Keep the 60 minute addition to about 10-15 of your total IBUs and get the rest from late hopping (cube or otherwise).

Just my way of doing things.

JD

I did 10g FWH with snows recipe using pellets, not a harsh bitterness at all.

 

[Coodgee]

To my underdeveloped taste buds the recipe in the recipe section is pretty much spot on. You just need to add at least 100 grams of dry hopping to get the full aroma. The key to the mouthfeel is just high carbonation in my opinion. I have it carbed to the point that it's quite hard to pour anything other than a glass of foam if the tap is not super cold.

 

[q3rasta]

Hi all. I live near the Stone and Wood brewery came across a empty 15lt cube of wyeast label says stone&wood 1056

 

[Jrrj]

Thanks q3rasta, this matches my experience.

Following Dan's suggestion from last summer, I recently did a split batch with wyeast 2265 and wyeast 1056. As you can imagine the beers are very different, and the Kolsch is nothing like SWPA.

Having said that, it could be that I fermented at about 18 degrees to suit the 1056, which might have been too warm for the kolsch.

My recipe was something that evolved from originally trying snow's recipe. Raw wheat with cereal mash instead of torriefied, 50/50 with pale malt instead of 60/40. Galaxy at 20 minutes and whirlpool, and I never got around to dry hopping so it was never going to be a clone irrespective of yeast.

 

[sp0rk]

Having chatted to an ex brewer, they use US-05

 

[mattyg8]

For some reason I cannot go back thru this thread to get the recipe recommended.

Any one able to help for 22L Biab?

 

[sp0rk]

Snow's recipe is the closest thing to what one of S&W's ex brewers relayed to me (and others on the Aussie Home Brewers FB group), 60/40 ale/wheat, galaxy to 25IBU, US05, LOTS late and dry hopped
Only alteration to Snow's recipe I'd make is to up it to 25 IBU

Hi guys,

just noticed this thread. I love this beer and I have been trying to get the S&W draught right for a while now. I had a chat to the brewers at the food and wine show last year and I seem to remember (in my drunken haze) that they said the malt split was 60/40 pale/wheat. They wouldn't specify the hops additions except to say it was a "shitload" of galaxy flowers , with multiple additions.

Anyway, this is my 3rd iteration and is very close.....
The bitterness is higher than the 21 IBUs indicate, I suspect the final aroma addition added a fair bit.

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Brewer: Snow
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Snow's Equipment
Brewhouse Efficiency: 73.00

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
2.80 kg Pale Malt (Barrett Burston) (2.0 SRM) Grain 60.87 %
1.80 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (1.8 SRM) Grain 39.13 %
10.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (60 min) (Mash Hop) Hops 3.5 IBU
5.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 9.6 IBU
10.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (20 min) Hops 5.9 IBU
12.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (5 min) Hops 2.9 IBU
35.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
40.00 gm Galaxy flowers [14.90 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
1.00 items Sodium Metabisulphite (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs American Ale (DCL Yeast #US-05 ) Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile

Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.43 %
Bitterness: 21.8 IBU Calories: 430 cal/l
Est Color: 3.3 SRM Color: Color


Mash Profile

My Mash Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Step 66.0 C
10 min Mash Out 76.0 C
Batch sparge 78C

 

[mattyg8]

Thanks for that, Can just substitute flowers for pellets? I still get bit confused converting hops schedule to suit no chill cube

 

[BKBrews]

I brewed this on the weekend with 60% gladfields American ale and 40% gladfields wheat, plus 40g acidulated. Galaxy pellets from yob at 15.2%. Used 6g at 5min and 31g at flameout for 30min hopstand. Total IBU = 22. Set aside 85g for a nice dry hop

 

[sp0rk]

Thanks for that, Can just substitute flowers for pellets? I still get bit confused converting hops schedule to suit no chill cube

Sure can
For no chill, move everything back 15-20ish minutes
I'd put the 20 min in at 5 (or even at flameout)
5 minute in in the middle of whirlpool
0 minute in the cube

 

[mattyg8]

Sure can
For no chill, move everything back 15-20ish minutes
I'd put the 20 min in at 5 (or even at flameout)
5 minute in in the middle of whirlpool
0 minute in the cube

Cheers mate!

Just seen it calls for 10g hop mash? Never done that.

 

[Matplat]

and sodium metabisulphite in the mash???

I don't have quite enough galaxy to do this, but might get close with a Topaz top up....