Start A Brewery?
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Mercs Own
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One of the biggest problems to creating your own brewery - although it only applies if you want to be a brew pub eatery - is council. They do not understand what a brew pub is, what it does, how it can benefit the community on many level - employment/tourism etc I would like to create a brew pub resturant like they have in the States and Canada. I would like it to be in the main street amongst the shope, cafes, resturant and bakeries so that people shopping, doing their banking or poping off the news agents to buy their lotto ticket can pop in for a hand crafted ale and maybe a burger or some tapas. Locals could come down for a liesurely lunch with business clients or Mum, Dad and the kids could drop by for dinner or just mum and dad for a drink and some nibbles for a bit of time out.
Anyway you get he picture but council dont. You see if you take grain and turn it into beer it is called manufactering and you cannot manufacture in a commercial zone you can only do that in an industrial zone. Mind you if you take grain and make bread then that is not considered manufacturing and you are allowed to set up your bakery in the main street - there are three in my local main street but no brew pub. So if you want to have a brewery with a bar and maybe serve up some type of good food then you have to set up in an industrial area next door to a panel beater and an earth moving hire company and hope that people once they have bought their bread down in the main street will jump in the car and drive out of twon to your place for a beer and some tapas. That is if the council will allow you to open on the given day someone decides to drive over to your place.
Doesnt make sense does it? They will stay in town and go to a resturant that makes (manufactures) their own pizza dough, tops it with some lovely locally made (manufactured) ingredients, cook it in their wood fired oven and serve it with a locally made imported and oxidised pilsner.
Setting up a brewery that predominantly makes and packages bottled beer seems to be working for some people and yes is really hard work and being allowed to open two days a week allows them to make some cream but why must they be hiden away in an industrial estate and why cant they be open seven dats a week if they choose. Why cant we be loud and proud in the main street offering a unique product along with great food and great service?
After all turning grain into beer really is a process of cooking just like what the bakery and the resturants do.
Okay off my soap box.....well almost... having a location in a commercial environment actually means that all the hard work might actually pay off as well as give boutique hand crafted beer the sort of profile it should be given.
Anyway you get he picture but council dont. You see if you take grain and turn it into beer it is called manufactering and you cannot manufacture in a commercial zone you can only do that in an industrial zone. Mind you if you take grain and make bread then that is not considered manufacturing and you are allowed to set up your bakery in the main street - there are three in my local main street but no brew pub. So if you want to have a brewery with a bar and maybe serve up some type of good food then you have to set up in an industrial area next door to a panel beater and an earth moving hire company and hope that people once they have bought their bread down in the main street will jump in the car and drive out of twon to your place for a beer and some tapas. That is if the council will allow you to open on the given day someone decides to drive over to your place.
Doesnt make sense does it? They will stay in town and go to a resturant that makes (manufactures) their own pizza dough, tops it with some lovely locally made (manufactured) ingredients, cook it in their wood fired oven and serve it with a locally made imported and oxidised pilsner.
Setting up a brewery that predominantly makes and packages bottled beer seems to be working for some people and yes is really hard work and being allowed to open two days a week allows them to make some cream but why must they be hiden away in an industrial estate and why cant they be open seven dats a week if they choose. Why cant we be loud and proud in the main street offering a unique product along with great food and great service?
After all turning grain into beer really is a process of cooking just like what the bakery and the resturants do.
Okay off my soap box.....well almost... having a location in a commercial environment actually means that all the hard work might actually pay off as well as give boutique hand crafted beer the sort of profile it should be given.
WarmBeer
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Interesting insights, thanks Merc.
Is it on a council-by-council basis? Wonder how True South got around these issues? Possibly Bayside Council is a little more open minded than some others.
Mercs Own
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My understanding is they had more than their fair share of problems on many fronts but regarding actually getting a brewery/pub licence for that spot there is a story that an Inn once stood there and therefore as it had been a place where alcohol had been served and a licence permitted the precedence was set.
Councils do differ and I hope they can be lobbied.
Councils do differ and I hope they can be lobbied.
WSC
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On the topic of starting a brewery I would be interested in the following info sources:
Where do you get data on how much beer is produced, who produces it etc.
# of large and small breweries by state.
What are the major industry barriers, like getting taps/distribution
Should you sell your own product or get a distributor.
I looking for the industry/business data on operating a brewery and selling beer.
I can't find much info, especially that shows data that includes craft beer.
There is a bit in the US but not much and nothing on Australia.
This is a must read if you are thinking about starting anything.
http://www.brewsnews.com.au/2010/08/the-ec...obrewing-redux/
Where do you get data on how much beer is produced, who produces it etc.
# of large and small breweries by state.
What are the major industry barriers, like getting taps/distribution
Should you sell your own product or get a distributor.
I looking for the industry/business data on operating a brewery and selling beer.
I can't find much info, especially that shows data that includes craft beer.
There is a bit in the US but not much and nothing on Australia.
This is a must read if you are thinking about starting anything.
http://www.brewsnews.com.au/2010/08/the-ec...obrewing-redux/
Shed101
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The best people to speak to are the guys and girls who've generally risked virtually everything to have a go at doing this.
I've talked to a fair few in the past, in several different states. By and large these guys are supportive of each other, and always happy to discuss the difficulties of setting up a brewery. Obviously they want more and more people interested in craft beer, more breweries makes a stronger industry ... and with any luck a better chance of removing barriers to set-up, and the stranglehold of the big boys.
In relation to the planning regulations the laws vary from place to place. I can assure you, it's not just because some states have more people interested in good beer that there are more craft breweries :icon_cheers:
I've talked to a fair few in the past, in several different states. By and large these guys are supportive of each other, and always happy to discuss the difficulties of setting up a brewery. Obviously they want more and more people interested in craft beer, more breweries makes a stronger industry ... and with any luck a better chance of removing barriers to set-up, and the stranglehold of the big boys.
In relation to the planning regulations the laws vary from place to place. I can assure you, it's not just because some states have more people interested in good beer that there are more craft breweries :icon_cheers:
HoppingMad
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This is good advice. If you look at one of the successes in Vic (other than Kooi) you'd be looking towards Cam & Dave at Mountain Goat. They did the Ballarat course I believe (or one of them did), then learnt the ropes at Grand Ridge making their beer out there with Eric. Grand Ridge allowed them to use a couple of vessels for their earliest batches of Hightail Ale, before they headed off to go it alone. Temple are the same with Jamiesons, and a bunch of guys also do it with a contract brewer in Rutherglen (Red Duck anyone?).
If you look at Alpha Queen, it is contract brewed out of Geelong and selling very well in Vic. The guy is a homebrewer of several years, and took this route as it is cheaper and you can skip most of the regulatory lessons (that most of the naysayers here will rabbit on about) while you find your feet. Really nice beer they have too.
So in my opinion a course, coupled with learning on commercial gear is the way to go. It's a path that others have shown works. At the very least learn the ropes on big commercial gear because you'll have to do it sometime if you're serious. And yep marketing is fine, but if you have a financial backer you can pay someone to do that. Get your expertise and product right first - then try it out on the masses and make sure it's right. You get one shot at it, or your name is mud. Kooinda are a good example. Great product, and all they have done marketing-wise is design a website, a beer label and a flyer and pounded the pavement like crazy selling the stuff. They also got some good advice on setting up from consultants and experts, rather than pretending they could do it all at once.
A bit of sweat and detirmination, and a willingness to learn a few lessons will get you a long way.
Hopper.
Fents
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everyone in this industry is so helpfull its not funny.
seriously tho think with your head "do i really want to start a brewery" as opposed to thinking with your heart "love brewing really want to open a brewery".
You need money and a shedload of it unless you have someone on your side who is a fabricator and can make your system from scratch.
Plan - you need a business plan, brewery plan, site plans, christ you need a plan just to plan all those plans.
Marketing - Logo's, labels, box's, six pack's, websites, designers
Sourcing Equipment - Chinese brewery? Buy a defunct brewey? Build your own? Equipment does not come cheap, you have to source it all then have somewhere to put it.
Property - better find a big factory to house your brewery, dont forget you will be paying rent (dead) money whilst setting about (about 6-12 months), hows that shedload of cash looking?
Government / Council - ABN's, registering business, Excise License, Liquor License, Police checks, Coucil approval, food safety and so much more.
Calibration - Gotta have all those tanks calibrated in Litres before you can use em.
Stress - got grey hairs yet? cause you will soon. I've done alot of "big" things in my life but setting up a brewery is by far the biggest stress - knowing that you have to get beer out that door just to pay rent and assoc costs is mind numbing. More sleepless nights than i care to remember.
What i have listed above is only half of it. We at Kooinda are very lucky in the sense that we were able to break into the market from our residential brewery where we paid no rent. Also we have FIVE guys who are so passionate about their craft that we all do this OUTSIDE our normal jobs.
Happy to discuss anything with anyone in person it just all gets a bit to much to type.
seriously tho think with your head "do i really want to start a brewery" as opposed to thinking with your heart "love brewing really want to open a brewery".
You need money and a shedload of it unless you have someone on your side who is a fabricator and can make your system from scratch.
Plan - you need a business plan, brewery plan, site plans, christ you need a plan just to plan all those plans.
Marketing - Logo's, labels, box's, six pack's, websites, designers
Sourcing Equipment - Chinese brewery? Buy a defunct brewey? Build your own? Equipment does not come cheap, you have to source it all then have somewhere to put it.
Property - better find a big factory to house your brewery, dont forget you will be paying rent (dead) money whilst setting about (about 6-12 months), hows that shedload of cash looking?
Government / Council - ABN's, registering business, Excise License, Liquor License, Police checks, Coucil approval, food safety and so much more.
Calibration - Gotta have all those tanks calibrated in Litres before you can use em.
Stress - got grey hairs yet? cause you will soon. I've done alot of "big" things in my life but setting up a brewery is by far the biggest stress - knowing that you have to get beer out that door just to pay rent and assoc costs is mind numbing. More sleepless nights than i care to remember.
What i have listed above is only half of it. We at Kooinda are very lucky in the sense that we were able to break into the market from our residential brewery where we paid no rent. Also we have FIVE guys who are so passionate about their craft that we all do this OUTSIDE our normal jobs.
Happy to discuss anything with anyone in person it just all gets a bit to much to type.
Fents
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and after that raggady ann post i will say this - nothing in the world beats mashing in and brewing on your own BIG system. the smells, the sounds.
the prize at then end is when you get random people coming up to you and telling you how good your beer is or getting props from the goat boys etc....it just makes it all worthwhile.
the prize at then end is when you get random people coming up to you and telling you how good your beer is or getting props from the goat boys etc....it just makes it all worthwhile.
HoppingMad
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Er... yep... there is a bit more to what Kooi's marketing than my earlier post let on after that post from Fents! Stand corrected 
.
Full of admiration for all these guys. Every craftbrewer and micro good or bad. These guys are the ones that have coconuts big enough to put it all on the line. Imagine how bland our local beer scene would be if every person considering starting up a brewery said "Nah, that's too hard."
Hopper.
. Full of admiration for all these guys. Every craftbrewer and micro good or bad. These guys are the ones that have coconuts big enough to put it all on the line. Imagine how bland our local beer scene would be if every person considering starting up a brewery said "Nah, that's too hard."
Hopper.
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Fents
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have a couple kooi icon's instead :drinks: :kooi:
WSC
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///
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I dunno know if i agree with the line of building the Taj Mahal, there are plenty that have done this and have been successful and failed. Its an easy statement to make but a hard bet to pull off.
There is a distinct correlation between why there are so many micro's in the US and why so many are brew pubs. In my now 3rd start up (ones just come out of VA and the other is an example on how to loose money by shear stupidity), the last and final start-up is the only one to control sales of the product at the tap. Sure, we have a small number of other pubs taps, and have a sale force about to start in trade, but the primary boat floating the beer company is through the pub. The only person I argue with for supply is myself as the brewer/cellarman, i aint going to screw myself for a good price, discounts, freebies, deals or other brand (and soul) destroying action. If you cannot do things on your own terms and control your final point of sale, your in for a tough ride I reckon.
The cost of equipment is superfluous really though. It matters little, if you cannot sell and support the sales effort then your a goose already half cooked. As many of us show on this forum, for $50 or $100 bucks you can kit your self out with equipment to make great tasting beer, why spend half a $mill? But once any beer is made how will you sell it? That is the important Q.
Scotty
There is a distinct correlation between why there are so many micro's in the US and why so many are brew pubs. In my now 3rd start up (ones just come out of VA and the other is an example on how to loose money by shear stupidity), the last and final start-up is the only one to control sales of the product at the tap. Sure, we have a small number of other pubs taps, and have a sale force about to start in trade, but the primary boat floating the beer company is through the pub. The only person I argue with for supply is myself as the brewer/cellarman, i aint going to screw myself for a good price, discounts, freebies, deals or other brand (and soul) destroying action. If you cannot do things on your own terms and control your final point of sale, your in for a tough ride I reckon.
The cost of equipment is superfluous really though. It matters little, if you cannot sell and support the sales effort then your a goose already half cooked. As many of us show on this forum, for $50 or $100 bucks you can kit your self out with equipment to make great tasting beer, why spend half a $mill? But once any beer is made how will you sell it? That is the important Q.
Scotty
what they teach you in a marketing degree=know the people you want to sell the product to
(as a current student) it feels like a giant waste of time (and eventual money) for common sense.
all i know is that the if i try to start a business ill be opening up all my text books searching for a 'how to _____'
I've got nothing to contribute to this thread except to say that it's good to see a thread with a "there's some logistical issues if you want to own a micro" theme rather than the "you'll never get it off the ground & go broke in the process" theme that I've seen in previous threads on here. I've come to the conclusion that if I was going to be a rockstar or a professional athlete then it would've happened by now. Brewing seems like it could be a way to do something for a living that I love.
I can't remember if it was this thread or a different one where someone mentioned that they'd spoken to a brewer from a micro & got told that it mainly involves cleaning. I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case. A pretty high percentage of brewing at home is cleaning & I can't imagine that changing because there's more beer being brewed. If anyone is looking into opening a micro (or any other small business) for glamour & instant profit then rockstar/athlete is likely to be a better plan.
As far as the gear required to get started, who has seen what Nels & Simon brew their one keg wonders with at Brewboys? They've brewed some of the nicest beers I've drunk with a couple of (legally acquired) kegs & a 3 ring burner. Admittedly they do have 2 1000L stainless conical fermenters there for the beers that they sell offsite but they brew saleable beer using gear that many home brewers on here would consider primitive. Speaking from a position of pure ignorance I'd suggest that you'd want to look into a business plan before you worry about getting yr hands on several thousand dollars worth of brewbling but Fents or someone else would know better.
Edit: I read that post after posting & LOL! Sig change, here we come.
"I've got nothing to contribute BUT ........... blah blah ........... blah .......blah........ etc....."
I can't remember if it was this thread or a different one where someone mentioned that they'd spoken to a brewer from a micro & got told that it mainly involves cleaning. I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case. A pretty high percentage of brewing at home is cleaning & I can't imagine that changing because there's more beer being brewed. If anyone is looking into opening a micro (or any other small business) for glamour & instant profit then rockstar/athlete is likely to be a better plan.
As far as the gear required to get started, who has seen what Nels & Simon brew their one keg wonders with at Brewboys? They've brewed some of the nicest beers I've drunk with a couple of (legally acquired) kegs & a 3 ring burner. Admittedly they do have 2 1000L stainless conical fermenters there for the beers that they sell offsite but they brew saleable beer using gear that many home brewers on here would consider primitive. Speaking from a position of pure ignorance I'd suggest that you'd want to look into a business plan before you worry about getting yr hands on several thousand dollars worth of brewbling but Fents or someone else would know better.
Edit: I read that post after posting & LOL! Sig change, here we come.
"I've got nothing to contribute BUT ........... blah blah ........... blah .......blah........ etc....."
matthendry
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Hi Merc I live down the street from your sister in the US ( Its good to chat with another Aussie ) and Ive been investigating the possibility of setting up a small microbrewery in Vermont eventually .We are also growing a small amount of hops on the farm I live on . Its not easy in Australia to sell beer at a commercial level unless you own a brew pub or have a innovative business model like Brewtopia who I did some consulting for and convinced that selling beer online was the way to go .
In Vermont you can obtain a Farmers Market licence so you can sell beer and wine at the local producers market you can also sell direct from your brewery with a class 2 licence similar to what supermarkets and convenience stores have to sell beer .The catch is you cant self distribute , you need to do that through a liceenced distributor but direct sales and the farmers market licence should be all you need if you are a tiny brewery. The local ,state and federal governments are reasonably friendly to nano-breweies so this make a huge difference .So here in the US a nano-brewery can be set up on a residential property with local,state and federal aproval with about $50,000 startup capital and nano-breweries are popping up all over the country as small businesses .
It might take a legislative change for the laws be more reasonable and maybe you have to go that route before it becomes easier to start a nano-brewery in Australia .Not that it cant be done in Australia, Bob Westler started up the Harbour beer Company in his rented Laundry on a 3 tier high end homebrew system back in the late 90s .
The Great Nanobrewery List: From CA to MA.
http://hessbrewing.blogspot.com/2009/11/na...ies-in-usa.html
In Vermont you can obtain a Farmers Market licence so you can sell beer and wine at the local producers market you can also sell direct from your brewery with a class 2 licence similar to what supermarkets and convenience stores have to sell beer .The catch is you cant self distribute , you need to do that through a liceenced distributor but direct sales and the farmers market licence should be all you need if you are a tiny brewery. The local ,state and federal governments are reasonably friendly to nano-breweies so this make a huge difference .So here in the US a nano-brewery can be set up on a residential property with local,state and federal aproval with about $50,000 startup capital and nano-breweries are popping up all over the country as small businesses .
It might take a legislative change for the laws be more reasonable and maybe you have to go that route before it becomes easier to start a nano-brewery in Australia .Not that it cant be done in Australia, Bob Westler started up the Harbour beer Company in his rented Laundry on a 3 tier high end homebrew system back in the late 90s .
The Great Nanobrewery List: From CA to MA.
http://hessbrewing.blogspot.com/2009/11/na...ies-in-usa.html
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Interesting thread. I myself am currently going through the process of opening my own brewery. For the last 6 months ive been researching and writing my business plan and believe me it hasn't been easy. I'm currently in Canada and will be heading to the USA for more research. I've lined up visits with a number of breweries to get some ideas and find out what issues and problems they have or had while starting up. I'm also here to check out potential brewing equipment for the brewhouse both new and secondhand but everyone I have spoken to suggests to go new.
The best help I have received is from other breweries whom are more then willing to help as well as brewery consultants.
As soon as I return from the USA I'll be having my pre DA meeting with the council then soon after will be submitting my DA. Then the waiting begins as it'll be a number of months for the DA then at least 6 months for the manufacturing and commissioning for the brewhouse.
You can follow my progress on my blog or on facebook
http://www.sixstringbrewing.com.au
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Six-String-B...121901417842382
The best help I have received is from other breweries whom are more then willing to help as well as brewery consultants.
As soon as I return from the USA I'll be having my pre DA meeting with the council then soon after will be submitting my DA. Then the waiting begins as it'll be a number of months for the DA then at least 6 months for the manufacturing and commissioning for the brewhouse.
You can follow my progress on my blog or on facebook
http://www.sixstringbrewing.com.au
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Six-String-B...121901417842382
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