Stainless Conicals

[kirem]

Update,

I took my mill back from the guys at work; I got lots of promises and then nothing. I saw some very good progress early on, but the knurl on the rollers was to fine and I doubt it would have been able to draw in the grain. They kept saying week after week that they need to order in some new knurling tools, it never happened.

I am thinking of getting some drawings made up at work, by a guy who will get the job done and then for those who can get machine work done, use the drawings. I am still thinking of getting the rollers made by an outsource shop. The end plates and bushes, I can get done, easily. I really want to provide a complete working unit and varying levels of 'completeness', so you can add your own motor etc if you want to DIY or just buy a complete working unit.

The conical idea had a set back. I work for a major beverage company and was told I could get U/S 50L SS kegs from them for a song. When it came time to make it happen, some upper management decided it was a good time to change the rules on selling kegs to staff, it is now absolutely forbidden, something about pressure vessels and liability. My backup plan was to ask the guys who are doing the stainless work on my brewery for a quote; I am going to get a couple made for myself regardless (unless brissybrew comes up with another unbeatable price). So stay tuned, I know it is tedious, but this is not my fulltime job.

The breweries, similar to what morebeer make and sell and are still my number one idea. I am getting my own test rig altered at present. I will then do a few test brews and a few invite brewers to give it a go.

This is also a very busy time of the year for me at work, I have many blends that need to be together and in the bottle yesterday and the marketers keep changing the time frames on the products.

Just like shampoo, it won't happen overnight, but it will happen.


K

 

[darkhorse]

Well I have drawn up my Mill plans in 3D just need to prepare the drawings for manufacture... have acquired some 2" SS rod and that is the key.

When the drawings are done I will make them available... similar design to most others. I hope to have it designed and my own mill functional by the end of the month (unless life gets in the way).

I'm keen to get more info in the stainless conicals though... even if it is mainly for the bling factor! B)

 

[ozpowell]

Hey Brissy,

Any update on the conicals or the mills?

Thanks,
Michael.

 

[Parkdale Brewer]

Hi everyone, just thought I'd post a quick update on these conicals. We are hoping to have the first prototype built within a week or so, and all details are still subject to change.

Basically the first model will be about 300mm in diameter and a bit less than 600mm tall without legs. The capacity will be about 28L to the brim, which gives you a 20% headspace on a 23L batch and 10% headspace on a 25.5L batch.

The lid is likely to be a 6mm polycarbonate disc with a silicone seal around the edge, which attaches with a stainless steel lever-lock ring.

The fermenter is constructed from 1.6mm 316 stainless (better than 304 due to improved resistance to caustic cleaners. Both are food grade). It will terminate in a 1.5" triclover ferrule at the bottom, and at this stage they will be supplied without a side port option, although we hope to have some good options for that by the time we are shipping them.

The prices are still yet to be confirmed and there are lots of variables, but the fermenter and lid arrangement (no tap or legs) will probably come in under $300. Not sure yet whether this will be for a 'raw' one or fully polished.

It looks like we've been able to get some good pricing on sanitary valves and fittings, and we will probably offer 5 bottom valve options:

Valve option 1: The cheapest option is to provide you with a threaded spigot that will clamp on, which can then accept any BSP threaded valve (eg $8 in Bunnings). This spigot will probably cost around $20.

Valve option 2: For around $100 we can offer a threadless, stainless 1" sanitary ball valve, with full teflon seals and fully dismantleable, which will clamp straight onto the fermenter. The outlet of this will accept 1" PVC tubing. They are very tight fitting seals and unlikely to harbour gunk, so dismantling the valve should only be required occasionally (certainly not every brew).

Valve option 3: For around $170 you can get a 1.5" version of the sanitary ball valve. This will also clamp directly to the fermenter but offers the largest throat of all the options (possibly too large). It will also need larger outlet tubing.

Valve option 4: For the same $170 (approx) you can get a 1" butterfly valve. These are a thing of awesome stainlessy beauty (I have a couple here) and they have no cavity for bugs to lurk. They are also fully dismantleable for seal replacement - you shouldn't need to dismantle them for cleaning, just flush. However, if you regularly have solids in your fermenter, the fact that the butterfly sits mid-stream may lead to occasional blockages.

Valve option 5: For about $180, you can get a 1.5" butterfly valve. This will certainly handle hop detritus much better than the 1", but again requires fairly large diameter tubing on the outlet side.

A fully optioned, gleaming fermenter with legs will hopefully come in between $600 - $700, and a basic raw vessel, ready for you to finish will hopefully be under $300.

I'll be offering a discount in the region of 10% to AHB folks who order and pay before Christmas (assuming things go well with the prototype!), as the early customers will obviously help us get it off the ground. We'd like to retail these through homebrew shops so we won't be discounting once we've set prices. They will be far better and far cheaper than anything else available. The build quality will be superb and we intend to back these things up with a lengthy warranty.

When I have a prototype and some piccies and better prices I'll let you know the details. Obviously we'd like to make a quid out of these for all the folks involved, and hopefully the customer will still get a great Aussie-built bargain. However, if the mods have an issue with this becoming commercial please let me know and we can take it offline.

Anybody drooling yet?

:beer:

 

[Batz]

I can live without a stainless conical,waste of money IMO,and it will not fit into my fridge.

Batz

 

[T.D.]

I can live without a stainless conical,waste of money IMO,and it will not fit into my fridge.

Batz

I agree Batz. I still can't really figure out what the HUGE benefit even is. I mean, I know all the "pros and cons" but a $500-$600 fermenter can't be that much better than a $30 plastic carboy surely!!??? Just a big "bling" premium in my opinion... h34r:

 

[kook]

I agree Batz. I still can't really figure out what the HUGE benefit even is. I mean, I know all the "pros and cons" but a $500-$600 fermenter can't be that much better than a $30 plastic carboy surely!!??? Just a big "bling" premium in my opinion... h34r:

Personally, I'd love one for the ability to:

Seperate cold break (I use a CFWC)
Remove trub prior to conditioning, without moving vessels
Harvest Yeast in a sealed environment
Transfer directly to keg using pressure in a sealed environment

I realise you can pretty much do all of this with a plastic carboy, but it is easier with a conical.

Plus, have you seen how shiny they are?

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I agree Batz. I still can't really figure out what the HUGE benefit even is. I mean, I know all the "pros and cons" but a $500-$600 fermenter can't be that much better than a $30 plastic carboy surely!!??? Just a big "bling" premium in my opinion... h34r:

You're paying too much for your plastic there, T.D. ...

If I was brewing on a much bigger budget, it would be on the list of things to have, but not near the top.

I'm yet to find a buffing compound that brings out the bright, shiny lustre of my Bunnings fermenters. :blink:

 

[delboy]

i cant understand why this homebrewing fraturnity don't get together and get a custom molded plastic fermenter blown surly that would be a cheaper option
del

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

i cant understand why this homebrewing fraturnity don't get together and get a custom molded plastic fermenter blown surly that would be a cheaper option
del

I'd have to guess that it wouldn't any cheaper than these: http://www.rotamoulding.com.au/Cone.htm which would still price it out of my range until the lotto faery shat on me...

 

[///]

Personally, I'd love one for the ability to:

Seperate cold break (I use a CFWC)
Remove trub prior to conditioning, without moving vessels

Thats not too hard, if using ale yeast skim the dirty head.

[/quote]

Harvest Yeast in a sealed environment
Transfer directly to keg using pressure in a sealed environment
[/quote]

On yeast harvesting, for ale yeast you want the head not the floc'ed yeast. Ale yeast self selects the best crop of yeast by the healthy yeast being ontop of the fermentation. Dead or poor condition cells fall out.

Yeast health is also questionable for conicals due to pressure and temperatures at the bottom of the cone. Alot of negative sentiment has come out about the use of the fermenters in the bigger end of town with some looking at alternate vessels. Also sealed fermentations?? Get good wort and enough good yeast and there is little need??

Additionaly if there are fermentation issues how does one rouse a cylindronical? Stories of UK brewers used to squares when swapping to cylindro's has seen beer blowing out of the fermenter and a right awful mess, not less the damage to the tank when they tried to rouse - pressure and dissolved gas makes for a fun time.

I am lucky to have been lent a 40 odd litre old wine keg - it has post mix fittings (gas in/dip tube) so i can ferment, skim and then close off at 1.018 (or so) to carbonate the beer and allow this carbonation to push out the beer on transfer. Saves on gas and lifting.

 

[hughman666]

as an in-between, it would be good to get hold of a plastic conical like asher's - from my blurred memory i think it was a 100L jobby.

any idea where to source one of these?

 

[Andyd]

One of the things that has put me off thinking about plastic for a conical is that these vessles are gas permeable - oxygen will get in, and probably affect your beer, especially during an extended fermentation (say 8-12 weeks like the one I'm doing at the moment).

You could, I guess, use the conical for cultivating the yeast and then transfer to another vessel, but that would defeat one of the purposes of the conical in the first place (i.e. dumping your yeast and continuing the ferment without puting your beer at risk during transfer).

The more I think about it, the more I realise that conicals are not necessary for me. What I do need to do is find a more effective way to maintain the temperature of my fermentors - having fridges all over the place is pissing my wife off just isn't working for me

 

[Ross]

as an in-between, it would be good to get hold of a plastic conical like asher's - from my blurred memory i think it was a 100L jobby.

any idea where to source one of these?

Look 2 posts up at SpillsmostOfit's link

cheers ross

 

[Ross]

One of the things that has put me off thinking about plastic for a conical is that these vessles are gas permeable - oxygen will get in, and probably affect your beer, especially during an extended fermentation (say 8-12 weeks like the one I'm doing at the moment).

If oxygen is going to permutate through the plastic & spoil your beer in 8 - 12 weeks we are all in the poo!!!
There is no risk to be worried about...

cheers Ross

 

[Asher]

My Cylindroconical has slotted into the Juncthouse nicely.
So far I've managed to:

- Dump a lager yeast off the bottom to rescue a Flanders Red pitched with a Roselare blend that had some gravity issues.. This was at the end of a ferment and I had chilled the beer. Yeast was dumped without disturbing clearing beer above it

- Achieve very healthy fermentation. Seem to be fermenting beers out by a few extra gravity points (enough to have me considering tweaking my mash temps to compensate). To many new variables to pinpoint exactly why though.

- No longer lifting anything over 20kg's (my kegs). I have worked out a good CIP process for the fermenter between beers now. Probably not the most water efficient. The conical bottom makes CIP a breeze. Having the fridge on wheels helps too.

If I was doing small batches I'd stick with a standard 30l plastic fermenter. Anything up around the 60l+ mark, Cylindroconicals are the way to go IMO.

Asher