Split Brew Day?

[antiphile]

Had almost finished crushing the grain, then a phone call. Now there's commitments to undertake this evening, and I don't have tomorrow afternoon free either. I've spent a bit of time thinking about it and can't see any problems but I could be missing something.

If I go ahead and mash this afternoon, then place the wort in the kettle and cover it, would there be any issue doing the boil tomorrow morning? I imagine I won't be the first or the last person to run into thisw situation.

Cheers

 

[menoetes]

Before the boil? I don't see why there should be any problems... I don't see an infection setting in over-night and you'll be boiling it tomorrow anyway.

 

[technobabble66]

Nope.
It should be all fine. Done it several times myself now.
However, i'd DEFINITELY boil it for at least 10mins, preferably 30mins to sanitise the wort, before you leave it overnight. If you just run it off at ~70-80°C it may not be sterile enough such that when it drops to ~40°C after 8-12hrs you may get some bug action - may be ok, but i wouldn't risk it.
FWIW, when you bring it back up to the boil tomorrow you'll get the usual froth of hot break forming (first time i did it i was hoping the second boil wouldn't foam up).

 

[manticle]

No you're not the first and yes there is a risk. Can be done, has been done, calculate risk/benefit and decide yourself.

Things to consider - temp mash gets to and how long and weather/temperature overnight.
If you've ever left spent grain overnight during a 40 deg heat spell, you'll know you can get horrible flavours that a boil won't fix. However, when weather is cooler and if you mash out at 78 or so, there's a chance it will be fine.

 

[manticle]

Techno - if boiling for 30 mins, you're not saving much time at all are you?

OP - you'll have a better chance if you can bring above 80 then run to sanitised cube rather than kettle.

 

[antiphile]

I really appreciate the quick replies from everyone. On balance, I think I'll give it a try then with the following procedure changes:

Gite it a quick 10 minute boil today; cool it down with the copper chiller (sanitised in the quick boil), cover ASAP, and then start the proper kettle boil tomorrow morning.

The reason I'm going ahead is I may not get my next chance for another fortnight or so. Thanks again everyone, and it will be interesting to see if or how well it turns out.

Cheers
Phil

 

[technobabble66]

@Mants, yeah 30min boil may be fairly excessive. 10mins should be enough.
I normally try to do a 90min boil, plus it takes another 60mins to steep and drain the kettle, plus maybe another 60mins to finish everything up and do the basic cleanup. So 30mins then stick on the lid and leave is a *lot* quicker for me - it's much easier for me to get a 4hr block free to mash, and another to boil the next day, rather than a single 7-8hr block to do the whole lot in one day.
It's the penalty for being fastidious/pedantic with your brewing technique!

One day i'll become faster/more efficient with my brewing! :unsure:

 

[manticle]

2 mins at 75 would be more than enough for most food pasteurisation so yes 30 seems excessive. By splitting mash and boil you are already making a compromise. Might as well gain the real time advantage the process can give you.

 

[technobabble66]

I wish to see evidence and references!!
Only kidding :lol:
I believe (ie: vaguely recall) 80*C is threshold to kill the vast majority of bugs. But I think it also needs to be held there for a while - like 30 or 60mins? I prefer to crank it to a boil to ensure the appropriate number of HSUs are roughly achieved (compensating for the longer time req'd for lower temps) and to kill not only the active bugs but also spores/fungi etc. It gives me peace of mind. Also, by the time I've finished draining my sparge out it's pretty much boiling anyway.

I think someone on here (Airgeard?) knows a lot more on sterilization, based on their profession. Maybe they could chip in what might be req'd to gain a relatively safe 24hr window.
You're probably right, Mants, but I can do it without any real time impost and it means I'm not stressing about it over the next 24hrs.
No botulism ... so far.
I do wonder if there's any benefits (or flaws) from the double boil process I do, with regard to the chemistry of the wort (or if it's the same as just doing a 30min-longer boil).

 

[manticle]

Airgead is in IT. Plenty of info out there on food pasteurisation (sterilisation is another thing entirely).

 

[antiphile]

Hi to all

You guys were quick to give me some advice on the dilemma I was in a few months back, so the least I can do is to give you some feedback (and as I've said again and again, never let it be said I didn't do the least I could do).

I'd love to report it was a total unequivocal success, but that would be bullsh*t. I think a more accurate description would be a total abysmal failure. And while I've spent many many hours trying to find what went wrong, I still have absolutely no bloody idea. However, in order to make sure no one else wastes nice ingredients foolishly, I'll try to put too much info here rather than not enough, so if you're not interested, I suggest you stop reading now. You have been warned!

It was a pretty standard type of ESB recipe for 40 litres into the FV as follows:
4.50 kg Golden Promise (6.0 EBC) 50.6 %
3.00 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) 33.7 %
0.80 kg Caramunich II (120.0 EBC) 9.0 %
0.60 kg Melanoiden Malt (39.4 EBC) 6.7 %
25.00 g Magnum [14.10 %] - Boil 60.0 min 21.3 IBUs
50.00 g Willamette [4.80 %] - Boil 40.0 min 12.7 IBUs
40.00 g Styrian Goldings [2.20 %] - Boil 10.0 min 1.9 IBUs
with a single infusion mash of
Mash In: Add 25.71 l of water at 73.8 C 67.8 C 60 min
Sparge: Fly sparge with 33.76 l water at 75.6 C

So all pretty normal in my mind. Then my notes for 7 March say:
Pasteurised wort 80-90C for 15 mins; Chilled; Covered.

On the next morning, I took up where I left off, and started the 90 min boil. All went as normal, chilled wort, drained to FV, aerated (using only air) for 30 mins with an airstone. I had an estimated FG of 1.013 to 1.015.

I had made a 2.5 litre yeast starter on a stir plate (stepping it in 3 steps) of the platinum White Labs Essex Ale (WLP022) and pitched 2 litres of it ensuring it was well stirred to make sure the yeast was evenly distributed in the flask; pitching and wort temp both 21C. Placed FV in fridge and set temp controller to 19C with OG of 1.053. Following morning, set temp controller to 18C for fermentation.

This is where things started to go astray. My technique may not be everyone's idea of ideal, but normally it works really well for me and I get over 80% of the fermentation done within 3 days (or at absolute worst, 4 days). But it was just very slow to drop the SG even though it looked to have a rollicking fermentation going after 24 hours (by seeing clumps of yeast & trub swirling through the wort vigorously making lovely currents).

I usually get refractometer readings (and then adjust them to equivalent SG} in the early stages, and I intersperse them with hydrometer readings. But, as things went south, I did hydro readings. The following SG measurements with a trailing asterisk are actually adjusted refrac measurements:

Day SG (FV)
0 1.053
1 1.048
2 1.041*
3 1.040
4 1.040
5 1.037

By day 5, I was getting concerned and thought perhaps the WLP022 was the problem. So I drew out 3 samples each of approx 400 mls, and did forced ferments using (a) Sample 1 with some of the remaining Essex yeast; b. Sample 2 with WLP023 Burton Ale yeast I'd used about 10 days earlier, and (c) Sample 3 with WLP023 I had top cropped from the previous brew. (BTW, WLP023 is an absolute cracker for ESBs, but I digress). So, continuing on

Day SG (FV) SG (1) SG (2) SG (3)
6 1.034 1.032* 1.027* 1.023*
Increased temp controller to 21.5C
7 1.031 1.027* 1.020* 1.017*
8 1.027 1.018* 1.010* 1.008*
9 1.024 1.013* 1.003* 1.003*
10 Away from home
11 Away from home
12 1.013 N/A N/A N/A
13 1.008 1.006* 1.003* 1.003*

After that I gave up and tipped the brew. I don't think the brew was infected - it didn't taste or smell bad, just a little odd. Can't really describe it, but maybe a little "ashy" or similar. A friend is using the Essex yeast to brew ab extract at the moment, and while it's only just finished fermenting, he doesn't think it is doing anything unusual.

So the upshot is I have no idea. It might be something I made happen by doing the brew over 2 days; it may be something with the yeast; it may be how the planets were aligned. Any theories I come up with just don't seem to fit with the facts (apart from the planet one). If anyone has any ideas, I'm all ears.

Anyway, thanks for all the earlier help and the speed of the advice. Cheers.