Spiral To 3600w Electric Conversion - Boil Stats & Pics.

[Yeastie Beastie]

I just thought I would just share this with AHB members thinking of going electric like I did and was confused by the amount of elements avaliable etc etc.

I recently sold my Italian Spiral to "ampy" (enjoy) to go electric a number of reasons.

I recently bought one of THESE 3600W elecric elements from evilbay for a measly $38.00.
I was limited to an element lenth of 375mm as this is the diametre of my pot. My mash tun being the new conversion victim. Now to find another tun.

Installation was very very simple but found a thicker rubber seal a necessity to take up the curvature of the pot itself.

I did a test boil and there were no leaks so I proceeded to search around for a suitable cover.

I found a cover off an old hot water service I turned into an outdoor fire a while ago and cut that down to suit. Add one cable gland and job complete and even looks nice and tidy, and of course safe, my main priority here.

Here are some stats from 2 water only test runs.

50L Pot. LID OFF entire run
5:10pm - 30 litres of 20 degree tap water added to pot - element on.
5:20pm - 30 degrees
5:35pm - 50 degrees
5:45pm - 60 degrees
5:50pm - 70 degrees
6:00pm - 80 degrees
6:10pm - 90 degrees
6:20pm - 100 degrees
6:25pm rolling boil achieved.
7:25pm element off.
Measured water straight away to calculate loss. 24 Litres left.
OUTCOME - 1 hour 15 minutes to achieve rolling boil, boil held for 1 hour. Lost 6 litres to evaporation.

50L Pot. LID ON entire run.
11:30am - 30 litres of 20 degree tap water added to pot - element on.
11:40am - 40 degrees
11:45am - 50 degrees
11:50am - 60 degrees
12:00pm - 70 degrees
12:05pm - 80 degrees
12:10am - 90 degrees
12:20pm - 100 degrees.
12:25pm rolling boil achieved.
1:25pm element off.
Measured water straight away to calculate loss. 26 litres left.
OUTCOME - 1 hour 5 minutes to achieve rolling boil, boil held for 1 hour. Lost 4 litres to evaporation.

Future - PID and SSR addition to control the boil temp as it is extremely vigorous, and maybe a 1800W or 2400W element to achieve a faster initial boil, pretty happy with it now as it will be on a timer and turned on while im still in bed. It would have to be immersion type as there would be a maize of obstacles if stirring is required.

 

[brettprevans]

great post YB.

if you insulated the pot you'd get rooling boil faster. of ocurse you probably dont want to do that as it makes cleaning a PITA. my 50L HLT with 3600w element will raise 50L of 15C water to 80C in 40min. but its insulated.

how about making one of those elements into a 'over the side' or hand held heating element. I could use one of those for playing around in the tun if i miss my target temp (usually happens in the winter).

 

[browndog]

I'm not sure you want a PID on your kettle YB, I've never heard of that before and am not sure how successful you will be. The bee's knees are burst fire controllers available from Sutronics in England. A few members on here use them on their kettle to control the amount of power going to the element.

cheers

Browndog

 

[mje1980]

Do you have any trouble with your circuits running a 3600kw heat stick?. Im keen to get one of these, but im not sure if it will cause any power problems. Pretty cheap too!!

how about making one of those elements into a 'over the side' or hand held heating element Thats what i'd be doing with it

 

[Yeastie Beastie]

Also to add to this if you have a close look at the pics some may wonder what the seal is between the tap and the pot.
After playing with seal after seal and annoyingly being sent a seal cut from a silicone 2mm baking mat...grrr, I figured I did not want the tap to be removed so welding it there was my chosen option....except aluminium doesn't weld to much. Back to the drawing board.
On researching Sellys Knead It - Steel **no affiliation** it claims to be heat resistant to 120 degrees continually. So I gave it a go.
I just kneaded it into a snake like length, wrapped it around my bulkhead fitting and screwed it up gently to the desired tension.
File and sand to the desired shape and presto.
I have now done about 10 -15 (5 with spiral) gas flame brews and the above tests and it is still in perfect condition, no leaks.

 

[Yeastie Beastie]

great post YB.

if you insulated the pot you'd get rooling boil faster. of ocurse you probably dont want to do that as it makes cleaning a PITA. my 50L HLT with 3600w element will raise 50L of 15C water to 80C in 40min. but its insulated.

how about making one of those elements into a 'over the side' or hand held heating element. I could use one of those for playing around in the tun if i miss my target temp (usually happens in the winter).

I have thought of insulation but yes the cleaning bit puts me off. Immersion over the side will probably be the go I think for the initial boil.

Do you have any trouble with your circuits running a 3600kw heat stick?. Im keen to get one of these, but im not sure if it will cause any power problems. Pretty cheap too!!

My house was owned by a sparky previously and I have a 2 x 32A circuits in the shed so I guess im lucky there. I would believe, don't quote me on this, but a 15A circuit would be fine as long as on brew days you don't run the TV, radio, computer, beer fridge on the same circuit as I do.

browndog - The only reason for a PID is that in the future I want to use the PID for it's ramp/soak feature.

 

[cdbrown]

That element is really cheap compared to what's out there - very interested in putting one in the HLT. Not needing to take it to the boil - I should get dough in temp in about 25mins.

 

[brettprevans]

a 15A outlet is fine to run a 3600W element. thats what i have.

and yeah its seriously cheap. my element and housing cost me like $200 or more. admittedly it was new but still. Id defnitely take one of the ones of ebay and use it. god its tempting. sooo tempting. but i have to have beer money for Qld so i cant/.

 

[fraser_john]

Hmmm, getting off peak power soon, so from 11pm - 7am electric is only 10c/Kwhr. Electric kettle would sure save the hassles of LPG tanks!

 

[Yeastie Beastie]

. but i have to have beer money for Qld so i cant/.

But you are Chappo's guest star, guest stars get paid don't they, get paid in elements h34r:

 

[Yeastie Beastie]

The bee's knees are burst fire controllers available from Sutronics in England. A few members on here use them on their kettle to control the amount of power going to the element.

cheers

Browndog

Been looking at them this arvo and they look good. Pricey though.

 

[cdbrown]

Yeastie - You reckon there's enough thread on the element to go through a keg wall?

 

[crozdog]

To reduce the intensity of your boil, you are probably better off to use a burst fire controller or phase angle controller instead of a PID/SSR.

Burst fire controllers or phase angle controllers can be expensive - I've seen em going for over $1000, but there is a cheap easy solution :

Get a PSR-25 from http://australia.rs-online.com/web/search/...p;x=13&y=14 ($62 +gst + freight) & a 1W 250K potmeter. Mount the PSR on a heatsink in a case & hook up the pot.

That will handle up to a 6kW element.

Here is a wiring diagram
NOTE: HERE IN AUSTRALIA YOU MUST CONNECT THE ACTIVE INSTEAD OF THE NEUTRAL to the PSR-25 (ie SWAP the L & N connections shown in that diagram) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is because neutral is bonded to the earth at the switchboard via an earth-neutral link & it is the active current you want to control.

Instant power control you can control by eye!!!

data sheet: http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.com/w...66b8002e5aa.pdf
mech data: http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.com/w...66b8008d756.pdf

If finer control near the ends is required, add a parallel resistor that is about 2x the potentiometer value (Shown as the resistor R in this diagram)


This info is blatantly plagarised from here

Ususal disclaimers re working with electricity apply - it is dangerous stuff!!! If you don't know something or aren't confident - don't attempt this - get a sparky to do it for you cause mains electricity can kill.

 

[onescooter]

I've been led to believe that one of the auberins pid units has a boil function "for the beer brewer." Would be handy as a dual purpose unit, http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_pag...products_id=106
Thanks
Scott

 

[leiothrix]

that is manual duty cycle control.

the cycle is 2-3 seconds, and you can change the mark/space from 0-100%.

i'm sure it will do what you want, but you'll be wanting a beefy heatsink for your SSR.

rob.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Insulation - I use some of the foil covered bubble wrap (it was a sunshade for a car windscreen) which cost me $2. A bit of gaffa and some stick on velcro circles = insulation that is easy to take off when you want to wash the kettle out.

It'll help in the step you are mainly interested in - raising from mash temp to boil. Where you are getting a lot of heat escape through the sides of the kettle as it becomes hotter and hotter. Your "lid on" option suggests you are currently looking at 30mins ish to get from 65 to rolling boil... I reckon a bit of insulation would make that 20-25. And that's from a standing start... if you start heating as soon as you get the element covered... I reckon you are odds on to be boiling within minutes of finishing your sparge, even if you batch.

The other thing I have been doing in my pot (60L Aluminium, 2400W immersion element) is floating a food grade bucket lid on the surface of the wort. This cuts down the effective surface area of the pot. It made the difference between my 2400W element giving me a boil that was marginal, to giving me a good rolling boil. Same as having a lid on really, but with open space where the wort is not covered, so what does evaporate off, stays evaporated rather than potentially dripping back into the pot.

I know you aren't having trouble maintaining a boil.... but you are getting nearly 20% evaporation, which in my opinion is too high. I think you have a better chance of making the beer you want to make, if you shove in less total heat. To do that you need to cut down the surface area and thus the evaporation % - both of which mean you can maintain a good boil vigour, without so much heat flux.

An option for you to play with anyway - nice looking job on the element.

TB

 

[Yeastie Beastie]

Yeastie - You reckon there's enough thread on the element to go through a keg wall?

I haven't had the use of a keg but without pulling it apart I can tell you that my pot wall is 3.5mm, I have a 5mm thick rubber washer on the outside (squished down to about 3 mm) and 10mm nut on the inside holding it in. All up I would say the thread length is 18-20mm in total length.
Hope this helps.

 

[Yeastie Beastie]

Insulation - I use some of the foil covered bubble wrap (it was a sunshade for a car windscreen) which cost me $2. A bit of gaffa and some stick on velcro circles = insulation that is easy to take off when you want to wash the kettle out.

It'll help in the step you are mainly interested in - raising from mash temp to boil. Where you are getting a lot of heat escape through the sides of the kettle as it becomes hotter and hotter. Your "lid on" option suggests you are currently looking at 30mins ish to get from 65 to rolling boil... I reckon a bit of insulation would make that 20-25. And that's from a standing start... if you start heating as soon as you get the element covered... I reckon you are odds on to be boiling within minutes of finishing your sparge, even if you batch.

The other thing I have been doing in my pot (60L Aluminium, 2400W immersion element) is floating a food grade bucket lid on the surface of the wort. This cuts down the effective surface area of the pot. It made the difference between my 2400W element giving me a boil that was marginal, to giving me a good rolling boil. Same as having a lid on really, but with open space where the wort is not covered, so what does evaporate off, stays evaporated rather than potentially dripping back into the pot.

I know you aren't having trouble maintaining a boil.... but you are getting nearly 20% evaporation, which in my opinion is too high. I think you have a better chance of making the beer you want to make, if you shove in less total heat. To do that you need to cut down the surface area and thus the evaporation % - both of which mean you can maintain a good boil vigour, without so much heat flux.

An option for you to play with anyway - nice looking job on the element.

TB

Very very good food for thought, thanks. I will definately try insulation now with you saying that, aquick easy solution. Also I have heard you speak of the floating bucket lid, also worth a try. In regards to open space there would almost be half or the total pot considered to be open space and my surface area of my pot with a diametre of 375mm the lid idea would be great.
I have to organize a brew soon and test these theories. Will repost the results.
Thanks.

 

[cdbrown]

I haven't had the use of a keg but without pulling it apart I can tell you that my pot wall is 3.5mm, I have a 5mm thick rubber washer on the outside (squished down to about 3 mm) and 10mm nut on the inside holding it in. All up I would say the thread length is 18-20mm in total length.
Hope this helps.

Thanks mate - should be fine and if it doesn't work it won't break the bank!.

 

[Yeastie Beastie]

Thanks mate - should be fine and if it doesn't work it won't break the bank!.

If you go for the same as I did, and it doesn't work ill buy it off you, ill be needing another one soon.