Speidels Braumeister. Impressive Yes. Expensive Yes.

[schooey]

The 50L I have has twin pumps. They are pretty much plumbed into a 'U loop' that's as minimalistic as possible under the machine. They are also controlled by the inbuilt computer and come witrh their own unique little German plug.

Short answer: Yes, you probably could if you really wanted to...

Long Answer:... but it wouldn't be an easy mod, more a major PITA and would probably cost you more than the $200 odd dollars people are landing March pumps here for at the current exchange rate. I'm toying with the idea of buying an 80L SS pot and a pump to make a whirlpool vessel, but it's a pipe dream at the moment. Everytime I start thinking about the logistics of it, I remind myself why I went and bought the Kraut bling in the first place...

Simplicity!

 

[MHB]

Is there a way (or perhaps a mod you could do) to put the unit's built in pump into the discharge loop? Seems a waste to have the pump there, but not be able to use it for transferring if you want to.

Well this got me to thinking. what schooey said is also right joining into the plumbing underneath would be a PITA, so it has to be an in from top easy to use plug in solution. The 50 L Braumeister has two pumps with pickups right at the outside edge and the returns near the middle like this.



So I figured if we could connect onto the returns we might have something workable, a bit of bending and shaping came up with this, it's just a proof of concept but we have just over a meter of lift and it emptied out 25 litres of water in about 5 minutes.
View attachment 43343

I climbed up and put some silicone hose up and over the metal strip that holds the suspended ceiling in place to measure the lift and knocked some rubbish loose, that's what's floating around on the bottom. The second pick is after the 25 L have been pumped out, which was handy because I was curious as to whether the trub would get pulled down the pickups, looks like it won't. With the Braumeister and a good whirlpool the outside edge is reasonably free of break material.

Will give this bodgie prototype a workout next brew day and see if it's worth building the El-Schmicko version, got a hunch it might be.

MHB

 

[Thirsty Boy]

So i guess you'd plug the bodgey into the outlets, then get a whirlpool spinning and then pull wort from the edges. Not bad. The only thing i could see might be that all the paraphernalia inside the vessel might interfere with the whirlpool so much that it would become ineffective. Worth a test brew to find out though.

I'm not sure how much use this mod would be in the braumeister, but its kind of nice to know you could do it if you want to.

 

[randyrob]

-5.5kg of crushed malt seems to be the absolute upper limit for the 20L Braumeister, anything above that and the pump is not able to circulate the mash anymore, as it gets too compact.

Hey Guys,

Does anyone know the limit of grain for the 50L model? is it a one man job to lift when chockers?

When using the smaller malt pipe in the 50L model, i'm guessing that when boiling the wort it only uses one element (if so is this set in the menu?), or is the boil controlled?

Cheers Rob.

 

[matr]

Roy has one at TWOC might pay to give him a call or even better go check it out..

They are quite the sexy bit of gear...

 

[schooey]

Hey Guys,

Does anyone know the limit of grain for the 50L model? is it a one man job to lift when chockers?

When using the smaller malt pipe in the 50L model, i'm guessing that when boiling the wort it only uses one element (if so is this set in the menu?), or is the boil controlled?

Cheers Rob.

G'day Rob,

The limit of grain for the 50L is around 12kg, but you can get more in if using a lot of wheat in the grist. You may get a bit more, but that's about ballpark. The malt pipe can be a little tricky to lift when it's saturated and fully loaded with grain, especially when you need to free one hand to place the staple in under the lugs to hold it and let it drain. You also have to be careful not to lift it too high, causing the lower filter plate off the centre bolt. Because if you do, and you lower it, you skew the plate and all your spent grain ends up in your wort... I speak from experience here... <_< I ended up with a little electric winch to control the lift and make it easier.

It makes no difference to the elements if you use the small malt pipe or not, they are still controlled by the same program. I'm glad I got the small pipe too; it makes it two machines in one really...

 

[Florian]

Hey Guys,

Does anyone know the limit of grain for the 50L model? is it a one man job to lift when chockers?

When using the smaller malt pipe in the 50L model, i'm guessing that when boiling the wort it only uses one element (if so is this set in the menu?), or is the boil controlled?

Cheers Rob.

Not sure about the 50l model, but I would assume it's proportional, so you would still end up with a 5-6% ABV max without using 'tricks' like double mashing (doing a mash and using the resulting wort as liquor for a second mash).

From memory there is only one element in the 50L, it's just longer. Either way, it's a controlled boil, regardless of number of elements. You actually set the temperature you want to boil at. It's recommended to set this to 102C so it keeps boiling and doesn't continuously cut out at 100C and restart when falling below.


Florian

EDIT: Shooey beat me to it and speaks from experience.

 

[randyrob]

Schooey / Florian

Thank you very much guys - fantastic advice and good to know.

I could definately live with Reiterated Mashing for bigger beers, seeing as I only usually brew a RIS or Barley Wine a couple of times a year.

Does anyone have the diameter and height of the main vessel and also the malt pipe?

Cheers Rob.

 

[Florian]

height 700mm, diameter 500mm.

you can get most info in english from here: http://www.speidels-braumeister.de/shop_co...sche-daten.html

Or click your way through the site for more info, there is even the complete manual in several languages, which helps quite a bit to understand the full process:
http://www.speidels-braumeister.de/shop_co...ontent/Download

 

[MHB]

Without double dipping the biggest beer I have ever knocked out came in at 1.114.
As you would expect the efficiency was woeful, the grain bill was 9 Kg of Weyermann Pilsner and 3 Kg of their Pale Wheat, so 12 Kg like Schooey said.
What you have to remember is that you dont need to put 50+ litres of water in at the start. Just enough to fill the malt pipe (less the volume of the grain) and enough left over to make a pumped circuit. Turns out that about 35 litres is the absolute minimum you can use. The mash regime was a quite complicated 7 step programme designed for highly attenuateive wort, it required a pause in the middle and a quick reprogram.
Not a brew I will be making often but a good learning brew all the same.
12 Kg in 35 L is just under 3:1 so the runnings (no first about it) would have a gravity of 20oP or 1.080, followed by a 2 hour boil with both elements going flat out got the 30% evaporation required.
Braumeister is really optimised to make standard beer, but if you think it through there is a lot you can do that I suspect the designers didnt have in mind.
MHB

Oh Florian/randyrob the 20L Braumeister has 1 element; the 50 L model has 2. The smaller one is the same as the one used in the 20 L model, if you scroll up you can see a picture I posted that shows both elements in the 50 L Braumeister. The Malt Pipe in the 20 L is 270mm Diameter X 365 Tall and the standard Malt Pipe for the 50 L model is 350mm Diameter X 480 Tall, the short malt pipe is 350mm Diameter X 270 Tall.
M

 

[Adam Howard]

Without double dipping the biggest beer I have ever knocked out came in at 1.114.
As you would expect the efficiency was woeful, the grain bill was 9 Kg of Weyermann Pilsner and 3 Kg of their Pale Wheat, so 12 Kg like Schooey said.
What you have to remember is that you dont need to put 50+ litres of water in at the start. Just enough to fill the malt pipe (less the volume of the grain) and enough left over to make a pumped circuit. Turns out that about 35 litres is the absolute minimum you can use. The mash regime was a quite complicated 7 step programme designed for highly attenuateive wort, it required a pause in the middle and a quick reprogram.
Not a brew I will be making often but a good learning brew all the same.
12 Kg in 35 L is just under 3:1 so the runnings (no first about it) would have a gravity of 20oP or 1.080, followed by a 2 hour boil with both elements going flat out got the 30% evaporation required.
Braumeister is really optimised to make standard beer, but if you think it through there is a lot you can do that I suspect the designers didnt have in mind.
MHB

Oh Florian/randyrob the 20L Braumeister has 1 element; the 50 L model has 2. The smaller one is the same as the one used in the 20 L model, if you scroll up you can see a picture I posted that shows both elements in the 50 L Braumeister. The Malt Pipe in the 20 L is 270mm Diameter X 365 Tall and the standard Malt Pipe for the 50 L model is 350mm Diameter X 480 Tall, the short malt pipe is 350mm Diameter X 270 Tall.
M

I have one of these on my shopping list, skip straight past building up a time consuming AG setup and going straight for a neat and tidy unit that will make very good beer.

There's a few videos Braumeisters in operation that have shown people adding extract to the boil to increase gravity. Not really ALL grain but a pretty easy way to get up around 1.100. This is generally done with the 20L model because of how little grain you can get into them.

 

[randyrob]

Without double dipping the biggest beer I have ever knocked out came in at 1.114.
As you would expect the efficiency was woeful, the grain bill was 9 Kg of Weyermann Pilsner and 3 Kg of their Pale Wheat, so 12 Kg like Schooey said.
What you have to remember is that you dont need to put 50+ litres of water in at the start. Just enough to fill the malt pipe (less the volume of the grain) and enough left over to make a pumped circuit. Turns out that about 35 litres is the absolute minimum you can use. The mash regime was a quite complicated 7 step programme designed for highly attenuateive wort, it required a pause in the middle and a quick reprogram.
Not a brew I will be making often but a good learning brew all the same.
12 Kg in 35 L is just under 3:1 so the runnings (no first about it) would have a gravity of 20oP or 1.080, followed by a 2 hour boil with both elements going flat out got the 30% evaporation required.
Braumeister is really optimised to make standard beer, but if you think it through there is a lot you can do that I suspect the designers didnt have in mind.
MHB

Oh Florian/randyrob the 20L Braumeister has 1 element; the 50 L model has 2. The smaller one is the same as the one used in the 20 L model, if you scroll up you can see a picture I posted that shows both elements in the 50 L Braumeister. The Malt Pipe in the 20 L is 270mm Diameter X 365 Tall and the standard Malt Pipe for the 50 L model is 350mm Diameter X 480 Tall, the short malt pipe is 350mm Diameter X 270 Tall.
M

Hey Mark,

Thanks for the well though out reply, exactly what i needed!

Your figures definately seem on the money, I did a test BIAB batch on the weekend in a 50L electric keggle, 35L of strike water, 13.5Kg of grain, 2 hour boil, ended up with 23L @ 1.107
(was actually aiming for 1.118) so shocking eff on such a big grain bill.

I like your though process on tweaking the Braumeister to suit even extreme brewing.

Cheers Rob.

 

[proudscum]

When hopping your wort do you hop directly to the kettle or do you have to use a hop bag?

Am in the process of making a second immersion chill to put in line with my other one so i can put it in a bucket with frozen milk/coke bottles to speed up the chill.not doing in to save water as i have 14,000 of tank water to run through the chillers and then back into the tanks.Just time and had to do something with the copper from my never finished HERMS system.Its a bitch resizing the coil that i already have.

 

[schooey]

I hop straight into the Braumeister which, at the boil stage, is essentially just an 80L electric kettle. The large style circular elements in the machine actually aid in keeping the whirlpool cone in situ when running off the wort.

 

[proudscum]

Was wondering the gap setting for a MM2 when using this Brewery?And the range of efficiency that you may get using these 2 pieces of equipment together.Its time to knock up a few recipes to put through the brewery to work out how it actually works.Was thinking of 0.9-1mm as a starting point for the mill .Your thought pls....and thanks

 

[pmash]

I hop straight into the Braumeister which, at the boil stage, is essentially just an 80L electric kettle. The large style circular elements in the machine actually aid in keeping the whirlpool cone in situ when running off the wort.

Hey schooey, how much residual wort is left in your 50lt kettle? I've only done 3 brews in my 20 lt , 2 cooled and 1 no chill with 2 lts + of trub left. Next batch I will use my hop sock but I am keen to incorporate a hop/boil screen of sorts, with a dip tube ala blichman setup.

Any thoughts greatly appreciated,

cheers, pmash

 

[Florian]

Was wondering the gap setting for a MM2 when using this Brewery?And the range of efficiency that you may get using these 2 pieces of equipment together.Its time to knock up a few recipes to put through the brewery to work out how it actually works.Was thinking of 0.9-1mm as a starting point for the mill .Your thought pls....and thanks

Have just asked the same question and got two different answers. 0.8-0.9mm and 1.4mm. Both get efficiencies around 80%. Both crush the grain three times, starting at around 2mm, second time round a few mm less and third time to final crush size. Good idea to keep the husks as intact as possible.

 

[schooey]

I think you guys have to realise that your question is very much a 'how long is a piece of string' question... The answer will lie in what your grist consists of, what you are trying to achieve in your mash, your brewing process, your , milling regime, your mill and how it's powered, what speed it turns...... blah blah

It's going to be very much a suck it and see for your first couple of brews. The first brew I did with the new machine I had the grist similar to what it would have been for my old rig. I made copious amounts of stuff ups and still managed 75% Brewhaus Eff. With a few more brews under the belt and a finer grist I get low 80's consistently with good clarity.

It's part of the fun...

edit: Oh and as far as the remains, I kinda crafted an add-on pick up tube but I won't go into too much detail. Apparently the peeps at Speidel don't like it so much..... h34r: But it allows me to get pretty much everything but less than a litre... I'm happy with that. Gimme twenty minutes and I'll post a pic

 

[proudscum]

I think you guys have to realise that your question is very much a 'how long is a piece of string' question... The answer will lie in what your grist consists of, what you are trying to achieve in your mash, your brewing process, your , milling regime, your mill and how it's powered, what speed it turns...... blah blah

It's going to be very much a suck it and see for your first couple of brews. The first brew I did with the new machine I had the grist similar to what it would have been for my old rig. I made copious amounts of stuff ups and still managed 75% Brewhaus Eff. With a few more brews under the belt and a finer grist I get low 80's consistently with good clarity.

It's part of the fun...

edit: Oh and as far as the remains, I kinda crafted an add-on pick up tube but I won't go into too much detail. Apparently the peeps at Speidel don't like it so much..... h34r: But it allows me to get pretty much everything but less than a litre... I'm happy with that. Gimme twenty minutes and I'll post a pic

+1
its all ball park to get a starting point.i ended up ordering a hand crank for the mill as i didnt like the powerdrill option sounded not so good an idea to me.depending on how often i brew may go the Qldkev option for motorizing the mill.
be pretty basic grist to start ,no wheat just base and some spes grains.its been 5 years since doing a mash so need to get back on the pony so to speak.The s/s fermenter is hanging out for some wort love.

 

[Florian]

same here, hand cranking it will be for me.
Looking forward to that pic, schooey.