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drsmurto
Well-Known Member
Leave it connected at 200kPa for a week and then see what the carbonation is like.
Other way as i mentioned before would be to shake it at that pressure for a few mins. Your pouring pressure is very low. Why? You could easily pour wine at 100kPa.
ive experimented today .lengthend the line to 3m.no good,decreased size of line to 3/16 id same again.5/32 still the same
as it dispensors heaps of foam then bubbles of to a flat wine.
dispense at 100/or 50kpa still no go.
seems to bubble up in the lines as if the wine cant absorb the co2.
If i pressurise keg at 300kpa and release pressure out of keg the boil of of the co2 occurs and pushes foam out of the pressure release on the keg.
Advised to pressurise at 500kpa and shake and roll keg for 10 mins.
NO BLOODY GOOD
what am i doing wrong????????????????????
as it dispensors heaps of foam then bubbles of to a flat wine.
dispense at 100/or 50kpa still no go.
seems to bubble up in the lines as if the wine cant absorb the co2.
If i pressurise keg at 300kpa and release pressure out of keg the boil of of the co2 occurs and pushes foam out of the pressure release on the keg.
Advised to pressurise at 500kpa and shake and roll keg for 10 mins.
NO BLOODY GOOD
what am i doing wrong????????????????????
Airgead
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The wine will never hold a head like beer due to the low protein levels but it should still be fizzy like soda water.
That really sounds like a system balancing problem. Especially if its foaming in the lines like that. The thing with balancing systems is that you need to let things stabilise after making changes. Make one change, let things settle for a few hours (or days if you are mucking around with keg pressures) then give it a try. Changing the lines shouldn't need time to settle but changing the keg pressures will. Things need time to equalise.
I'm not a keg balancing expert but I'm sure someone here could give some specifics. There's also a good article here - http://www.byo.com/stories/techniques/arti...dvanced-brewing
Cheers
Dave
drsmurto
Well-Known Member
I assume that when you say 'flat wine' you mean it has no bubbles and has no fizz on the tongue. Wine will always look flat but i suspect you know that already.
Not sure what you are doing then although as Airgead points out, this takes time. You wont stabilise it in a few hours if you are using high pressures.
As stated previoulsy i pour sparkling water at 20psi (~145 kPa) and yes, it fizzes during the pour much like sparkling wine does when you pour.
But the water is still fizzy once it settles down after 2-3 seconds.
So my suggestion at this point is to vent the gas and leave it disconnected.
Walk away and don't touch anything for at least 24 hours.
After at least 24 hours vent the keg again and then hook up the gas and pour at 50kPa or thereabouts.
Let us know the result.
I highly doubt you have overcarbed your wine, i don't think you could using a standard CO2 regulator you buy for homebrew use. But you may have it carbonated up to a pressure that your line length can't handle.
Have you used the 'balancing a draught system' spreadsheet you find here to work out your required line length? Link
Not sure what you are doing then although as Airgead points out, this takes time. You wont stabilise it in a few hours if you are using high pressures.
As stated previoulsy i pour sparkling water at 20psi (~145 kPa) and yes, it fizzes during the pour much like sparkling wine does when you pour.
But the water is still fizzy once it settles down after 2-3 seconds.
So my suggestion at this point is to vent the gas and leave it disconnected.
Walk away and don't touch anything for at least 24 hours.
After at least 24 hours vent the keg again and then hook up the gas and pour at 50kPa or thereabouts.
Let us know the result.
I highly doubt you have overcarbed your wine, i don't think you could using a standard CO2 regulator you buy for homebrew use. But you may have it carbonated up to a pressure that your line length can't handle.
Have you used the 'balancing a draught system' spreadsheet you find here to work out your required line length? Link
24 hrs later and wine will not hold the bubbles......
Thanks to all for the help,that is some heavy reading kirem.also DrSmurto and Airgead,
Silo Ted,ChrisECarpenter,Muggus.sorry if i forgot someone...
would a carbonation stone help????? as ive been reading on other sites it is a possible go for carbonation of wine.
please dont tell me the youtube forums on the soda stream is the go for carbonating wine (chardonay)??????
Thanks to all for the help,that is some heavy reading kirem.also DrSmurto and Airgead,
would a carbonation stone help????? as ive been reading on other sites it is a possible go for carbonation of wine.
please dont tell me the youtube forums on the soda stream is the go for carbonating wine (chardonay)??????
Airgead
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IOt will never hold bubbloes liek a beer but should still be carbonated (like soda water).
A carbonation stone will help get co2 dissolved into the liquid faster. Essentially you can carb up a keg with one much faster than just putting it under pressure and waiting for it to dissolve in through the headspace. If you problem is lack of carbonation in the wine then yes it will help (but so will waiting a few days). I'm not sure thats your problem though. Hard to say without being there (and as I said, I'm no keg guru) but it sounds like your problem is that all the dissolved co2 is coming out of solution during the pour. To me, that sounds like a system balancing issue.
Cheers
Dave
oh no, picked up my first batch of beer from the beer shed in kegs and having the same issue when dispensin the beer as the wine.
All head and foam.flushed lines etc still the same .30-50kpa dispense.
So i tried it straight out of the keg with vinyl line to glass,80 % improvement.tried the wine also and got a better improvement.
Not excessivelly foaming and losing the bubbles...without the taps.
Rung the beer shed and asked them why and what is the difference in the taps.They couldnt answer except to keep playing around with the pressures but still no good.
What is the issue?????????????
Man all these trials without wastage is getting me pithed before the mrs gets home
All head and foam.flushed lines etc still the same .30-50kpa dispense.
So i tried it straight out of the keg with vinyl line to glass,80 % improvement.tried the wine also and got a better improvement.
Not excessivelly foaming and losing the bubbles...without the taps.
Rung the beer shed and asked them why and what is the difference in the taps.They couldnt answer except to keep playing around with the pressures but still no good.
What is the issue?????????????
Man all these trials without wastage is getting me pithed before the mrs gets home
Airgead
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What sort of taps? They don't have flow restictors in them do they?
What pressure were the kegs carbonated at again? 30kpa and 2C will give you about 2 volumes of co2. If the kegs were carbonated beyond that it will all be trying to come out of solution until it equalises at 2 volumes. To run a balanced system you should set your pressure the same for both carbonation and dispensing (so for 4 volumes at 2c you want 170kpa). You don't want the beer coming out of the tap that fast though so you set the line resistance to be equal to the keg pressure minus your pouring pressure (pouring pressure is usually 1psi or 6.5kpa) so the line resistance should be 170-6.5 or 163.5kpa. According to the tables that's about 2.6m of 3/16 line (or 63m of 3/8, 41m of 5/16, 10m of 1/4...).
If you pour at a lower pressure than your carbonation pressure you will have gas coming out of solution into the headspace and particularly in the lines as the turbulence will help the gas come out. This will happen until enough gas has come out for the system to reach equilibrium (in this case at 2 volumes).
I'd be setting your regulator to whatever the correct pressure is for the level of carbonation you want then adjusting the line length (or tap flow restrictor) to get a good pour. But you will need to leave the system alone for a while to equalise when mucking around with the pressures. Set the reg. Vent the kegs a few times to help any excess gas come out and leave it alone for at least 24 hours.
Cheers
Dave
I was told by the beershed to set co2 at 38kpa,there doesnt to be any restricters in the tap.
10mm line at 1.5m
standard kegerator taps https://shop.thebeershed.com.au/beer-fridges?product_id=88
2 degrees temp
10mm line at 1.5m
standard kegerator taps https://shop.thebeershed.com.au/beer-fridges?product_id=88
2 degrees temp
Airgead
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38kpa is about 2 volumes at normal serving temps which is pretty standard for a beer. Its a pretty safe, middle of the road carbonation level.
Your wine keg was at 4 volumes so there are 2 volumes trying to come out of solution. That's part of the problem.
Even at 38kpa, using 5/16 line, the calculator says you want 5.3m to drop the pressure to a nice 6.5kpa for pouring. With a 1.5m line you will be pushing the beer too fast through the line, too fast through the tap and and too fast into the glass which is knocking all the gas out and causing your foam issues.
If you change the line size to 1/4 inch id your 1.5m should be about right. Or use a longer 5/16 line.
Grab the calculator spreadsheet that was posted a few posts back. That's what I use. Its absolutely spot on.
Cheers
Dave
Airgead
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Not sure.. other than leaving it longer to settle when mucking about with the pressures.
Could be a problem in the tap I suppose. I just have those picnic taps myself (until I can build my bar) so I have no idea whether there is a tap problem that could cause foaming.
Whatever your problem is, it is contagious... my kegs poured very foamy last night. No idea why. Been working perfectly for 2 years now. I'm blaming you though :lol:
Cheers
Dave
Sorry Airgead
Now can i throw a spanner in the works.
lenghtened line from 1.5m to 3m and decreased from 1/4 to 3/16 ,also increased pressure to 45kpa.
A hell of alot better so far on beer 80% better.will try wine tomorrow.
Used the calcs link for determining the lenth but it wanted only 0.8m which gave me a poor result in overfoaming.
Also what would be the specific gravity of the beer be,could this be an issue???
Airgead
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I suppose the Fg of the beer could have an impact but thats beyond my experience. My guess is that there is some resistance in your taps (or maybe lack of resistance) that isn't being included int he spreasheet. Apparently most taps have a resistance of 1psi (.5 for a picnic tap) but yours may be different.
I fixed my system. Damn cat had been rubbing against the gas botle and had managed to knock the locking ring loose on the regulator and bump the adjustment knob. Gas pressure was about twice where it sghould have been set.
Cheers
Dave
I fixed my system. Damn cat had been rubbing against the gas botle and had managed to knock the locking ring loose on the regulator and bump the adjustment knob. Gas pressure was about twice where it sghould have been set.
Cheers
Dave
hey got a pluto gun and the sparkling wine dispensing is just about perfect at 38kpa as long as i leave the gun in the fridge and have a chilled glass.
Very little boil of of co2 bubbly.
My Mrs was impressed.(big night for me )
I can now see how temp,lines pressures are so variable to a flow of bubbly.
Now to my beer its all head and no beer at 20-100kpa with 3m of 3/16 line at 2 degrees. This sucks as i have nil to drink now ....
Finding that the beer is frothing in the line since swithching kegs???????????????????????
why....................
Got it right at 3/16 with 3m and 2 degrees.regardless of pressure of 20-100kpa??????
what has changed since changing the keg out of the same batch?????
Very little boil of of co2 bubbly.
My Mrs was impressed.(big night for me )
I can now see how temp,lines pressures are so variable to a flow of bubbly.
Now to my beer its all head and no beer at 20-100kpa with 3m of 3/16 line at 2 degrees. This sucks as i have nil to drink now ....
Finding that the beer is frothing in the line since swithching kegs???????????????????????
why....................
Got it right at 3/16 with 3m and 2 degrees.regardless of pressure of 20-100kpa??????
what has changed since changing the keg out of the same batch?????
