Sour beers

[tazman1967]

The US05, would be fine, you only need it to get things started,
Pitch, then 2-3 days later put your sour bugs in.

 

[mje1980]

I'm doing it the other way. I'm pitching lacto in the keggle ( after it's cooled overnight ). Then after a few days when it tastes "tangy" enough, I'll pull the bag out and boil it to kill the lacto. Then cube and ferment as normal. I've seen it mentioned a few times, Nick R I believe has done it. I'll just use the US05 then, cheers mate.


I like this idea because I don't have to worry about funking up my fermentors. I do have some funky fermentors but they're all full haha.

Will update

 

[tazman1967]

LOL, all good,
I usually use the German Ale for 2-3 days then add the funk.

 

[mje1980]

Do you then leave it for a few months before bottling?.

 

[tazman1967]

Yeah, im lazy, I leave it for 3 months.
Sours cant be rushed, just taste test, when its sour enough for you then bottle.

 

[Jaded and Bitter]

Hey guys, I'm doing a no boil weisse. After a few days in the BIAB keggle ( gunna pitch a smack pack of lacto ), I then plan on boiling, cubing, and once cooled, finishing with standard yeast.

Which one should I use?. Ideally I'd love to use 1007 German ale, but I don't have any. I do have a sachet of notto, but I hate notto, so was thinking of either ordering the German ale, or just going down the road and grabbing some US05. What do you guys reckon??.

I've got to admit I've never tried this, but I do have a couple of comments/suggestions for discussion only.

Which Lacto culture do you have? 'parently WYeast Lacto strain is hetero fermentive, meaning by itself it may not produce Lacto, 'specially without yeast to use up oxygen.

In the no boil I worry about the 'barf smell' bugs, which aint lacto. Its the stuff which grows before lacto kicks its butt.

You could boil as per usual, cool, pitch Lacto and let breed for a few days then pitch the yeast and as suggested leave until you like the flavour profile. if it aint souring quick enough put a brew belt on at like 30 degrees.

Personally Id just use a normal fermentor if only using lacto (unless brevis), its everywhere and were always keeping it in check with standard brewing hygiene.

But as well people have reported good results with the no boil method, and ive never tried it, so really my comments are academic. :beer:

 

[tiprya]

Ok guys, I have a good problem.

I pitched some roselare dregs (only) on a small wort (1.046) hoping for a quickish 'table sour'.

Well it worked too well! After 6 weeks it is super sour - 3.00pH! Nicely lactic, no acetic to my palate. Down to 1.010.

Thinking because it is so acidic I should blend it with another beer - what do you guys reckon? I guess I can leave it and see how it develops initially. I'm afraid bottling it now will be too soon, as I expect it to attenuate a bit more over time.

 

[Jaded and Bitter]

Ok guys, I have a good problem.

I pitched some roselare dregs (only) on a small wort (1.046) hoping for a quickish 'table sour'.

Well it worked too well! After 6 weeks it is super sour - 3.00pH! Nicely lactic, no acetic to my palate. Down to 1.010.

Thinking because it is so acidic I should blend it with another beer - what do you guys reckon? I guess I can leave it and see how it develops initially. I'm afraid bottling it now will be too soon, as I expect it to attenuate a bit more over time.

Let it sit and develop flavour complexity or bottle in coopers king browns or champers bottles with standard carbonation priming and blend in the glass with a nice belgium brune or dubbel - delicious blend.

coopers king browns and champer bottles can handle like 3 times normal carbonation levels, so even if brett chew up the last few points It will likely not bust the bottle or be too carbonated.

 

[mje1980]

I've got to admit I've never tried this, but I do have a couple of comments/suggestions for discussion only.

Which Lacto culture do you have? 'parently WYeast Lacto strain is hetero fermentive, meaning by itself it may not produce Lacto, 'specially without yeast to use up oxygen.

In the no boil I worry about the 'barf smell' bugs, which aint lacto. Its the stuff which grows before lacto kicks its butt.

You could boil as per usual, cool, pitch Lacto and let breed for a few days then pitch the yeast and as suggested leave until you like the flavour profile. if it aint souring quick enough put a brew belt on at like 30 degrees.

Personally Id just use a normal fermentor if only using lacto (unless brevis), its everywhere and were always keeping it in check with standard brewing hygiene.

But as well people have reported good results with the no boil method, and ive never tried it, so really my comments are academic. :beer:

Wyeast 5335. I got it up to 85c and turned the gas off, apparently this will pasteurise the wort. Then, this morning I pitched the lacto, with the wort ( and grains ) at 34c. Tonight when I got home I put the heat belt on, so it should sit around 35 comfortably. I'll taste it fri morning and see if it's tangy enough. Once it is, I'll pull the bag then boil and cube as normal. I'm sure I've read of people doing it this way ( maybe homebrewtalk? ). I hope I wasn't dreaming haha.

Doesn't smell at all after 12 hours. Hopefully a good sign.

 

[mje1980]

Let it sit and develop flavour complexity or bottle in coopers king browns or champers bottles with standard carbonation priming and blend in the glass with a nice belgium brune or dubbel - delicious blend.

coopers king browns and champer bottles can handle like 3 times normal carbonation levels, so even if brett chew up the last few points It will likely not bust the bottle or be too carbonated.

I love champagne bottles. Especially Belgians, and funky beers. Love to hear the pop!!

 

[vykuza]

Looks good mje! Power on through the hot sick phase and it will sweeten up again. I used BRY-97 in my current batch (which is now ready for kegging for half of it, and fruit for the other half). Any neutral yeast will work, but the plainer the better, as there's no hops to hide behind.

Jaded and Bitter - I've not been game to go full no boil, so this is my compromise that mje's using. Pitch lacto in the mash for a quicker sour mash, then quick boil to kill everything and a sacc ferment to finish it off. It's ready as soon as the sacc finishes.

I might do another one soon, but hit APA strength and hop it up properly in the boil. A Sour Pale Ale (SPA?). I think some Nelson would go well with that, though it might end up being a beer version of NZ sauv blanc.

 

[Danwood]

Have a look for Garage Project's Sauvin Nouveau, Nick.

That'd be quite close what you just described...minus the sour aspect.

 

[mje1980]

Looks good mje! Power on through the hot sick phase and it will sweeten up again. I used BRY-97 in my current batch (which is now ready for kegging for half of it, and fruit for the other half). Any neutral yeast will work, but the plainer the better, as there's no hops to hide behind.

Jaded and Bitter - I've not been game to go full no boil, so this is my compromise that mje's using. Pitch lacto in the mash for a quicker sour mash, then quick boil to kill everything and a sacc ferment to finish it off. It's ready as soon as the sacc finishes.

I might do another one soon, but hit APA strength and hop it up properly in the boil. A Sour Pale Ale (SPA?). I think some Nelson would go well with that, though it might end up being a beer version of NZ sauv blanc.

Do you bottle or keg?. I'd normally prefer to bottle but this beer could work quite well in the keg I guess. I have some apricot and also peach extract from Ross. I think it'd work well in it if I find it too sour.

 

[AJ80]

For what it's worth I've just tried my first one of these and it was fermented at 16C with notto to keep the yeast out of the road. Very very happy with this beer - tart and refreshing. Just the right amount of sourness and the low OG will make this one perfect for a summer afternoon. Will be brewing again.

I went down the kettle souring path and used 500g of uncracked pils malt to introduce the lacto for 48 hours before a 30min boil.

 

[seamad]

For what it's worth I've just tried my first one of these and it was fermented at 16C with notto to keep the yeast out of the road. Very very happy with this beer - tart and refreshing. Just the right amount of sourness and the low OG will make this one perfect for a summer afternoon. Will be brewing again.

I went down the kettle souring path and used 500g of uncracked pils malt to introduce the lacto for 48 hours before a 30min boil.

So no lacto culture, just wild ?

 

[Josh]

Hey guys, I'm doing a no boil weisse. After a few days in the BIAB keggle ( gunna pitch a smack pack of lacto ), I then plan on boiling, cubing, and once cooled, finishing with standard yeast.

Which one should I use?. Ideally I'd love to use 1007 German ale, but I don't have any. I do have a sachet of notto, but I hate notto, so was thinking of either ordering the German ale, or just going down the road and grabbing some US05. What do you guys reckon??.

Saw a talk at ANHC 2010 from Jess from Wyeast. Through their testing they came up with the following as the best Berliner Weisse strategy.
Ferment with Lacto for 2-3 days
Add 1007 German Ale for primary fermentation
Add Brett at bottling

I've done the first two with great success. Haven't bothered with Brett at bottling though.

 

[Josh]

Good idea. I just kegged a full keg of Flanders Red minus two bottles for comps + Oak Cubes.

Thinking I could do another Flanders Red and blend in 6-12 months. The trick will be keeping this keg that long. If it does well in the State comp I'll probably just bring the keg to Club Night at ANHC4.

My Flanders came 2nd at the Castle Hill/NSW Comp. I've bottled a bit from the keg already, so I might just bottle the rest and bring it to ANHC4.

Or blend it with a lambic that is a little light on for sourness. Blend tastes pretty good actually.

 

[vykuza]

Do you bottle or keg?. I'd normally prefer to bottle but this beer could work quite well in the keg I guess. I have some apricot and also peach extract from Ross. I think it'd work well in it if I find it too sour.

I keg, and this is a great beer for kegging in hot weather. Nice and cold, low alc, super refreshing and spritzy. Fizzy drink for grownups, especially with a splash of raspberry or lime in it.

 

[AJ80]

So no lacto culture, just wild ?

Yep, wild. Not sure what other bugs got a look in while souring, but the lacto is certainly present in the finished product.

 

[mje1980]

Mine now has a nice white film and a sourish smell. Not over the top, and not vomity, which I think is good . I'll check it tomorrow morning and maybe even risk a taste

 

[mje1980]

Hmm, my heat belt is only getting the keggle to 25. Turned the gas on and got it to 35, and added foam insulation. Taste is bready and sweet/vomit haha, not very sour, which I think is temp related. I'm going away on Sunday so tomorrow morning is the latest I can leave it so whatever happens tomorrow morning I'll be boiling and cubing ( I'm night shift so I'll be sleeping most of tomorrow so needs to be done in the morning ).

It does smell funky and sour when you out your nose in the keggle and have a good deep whiff .



I am really really really not looking forward to lifting the bag and emptying and cleaning it. I'll give it a good boil in a stockpot for 20 mins or so. If it's really bad I'll keep it purely for BW and get a newy.

 

[seamad]

Looked up the brew date for an Orval beer that has been dwelling in the cellar for awhile ( 1 year and 10 months in fact ) so it's in the fridge now to chill down before I keg or bottle it. Smells effing awesome if I say so ( and the missus agreed too, looks like I'll have to share it.

 

[seamad]

Here is a better picture of the pellicle

 

[Jaded and Bitter]

ooh nice pellicle.

My flanders red hadnt developed one last time I checked although the aroma has been developing nicely, think i'll take a sample with the wine thief tomorrow.

 

[mje1980]

I've had a Flanders brown in glass since November that has no pellicle. Though I have very little head space and I use silicon stoppers and airlocks.

 

[jefin]

I've had a Flanders brown in glass since November that has no pellicle. Though I have very little head space and I use silicon stoppers and airlocks.

Hi MJE

I'm the same put my Flanders Red down at the same time as yours (back @ page 5!) and it has no pellicle. Same situation though very little head space and silicone stopper etc.

Haven't had a taste yet but smells fantastic.

Cheers Jefin

 

[barls]

sometimes i do sometime i don't get a pelical. my lambic that won new state comp didn't but subsequent batches did.
actually have the rest of it just went in the fridge as a raspberry lambic.
all it has in it is brett lambis and dregs of a bottle of previous.
hmm can't wait for anhc to bust this one out.

 

[Jaded and Bitter]

Mine has plenty of head space and oxygen from stopper removals and sniffing, so guess its normal.

 

[mje1980]

Hi MJE

I'm the same put my Flanders Red down at the same time as yours (back @ page 5!) and it has no pellicle. Same situation though very little head space and silicone stopper etc.

Haven't had a taste yet but smells fantastic.

Cheers Jefin

When I was looking at glass carboys I ended up getting 2 x 11 litre ones, so I could do a spilt batch, and also so I could lift the bloody things!. One of them I left plain, and the other has rum soaked oak chips I saved from a brett porter, and I'm sure I've added some cantillon dregs.

When are you going to bottle?, I plan on taking a reading after Xmas and going from there.

 

[jefin]

When I was looking at glass carboys I ended up getting 2 x 11 litre ones, so I could do a spilt batch, and also so I could lift the bloody things!. One of them I left plain, and the other has rum soaked oak chips I saved from a brett porter, and I'm sure I've added some cantillon dregs.

When are you going to bottle?, I plan on taking a reading after Xmas and going from there.

Hi Mje

Was thinking of raking it off onto some oak chip's soaked in pinot after Xmas and bottling mid next year (I did a 20L batch in the one carboy). Will decide once I have a taste. Might even chuck it in a keg, if I do that it wont last long though!!

Planning to do a 40L batch the same day as raking and use the dregs to get things going. If it turn's out to be good I will delicate one of my fermenters and do 40L each year (or might invest in a oak barrel!).

Did you do a primary ferment with a standard yeast then inoculate with bug's or did you chuck em all in at the start?? I went with the later option and let the beer sit on the yeast cake.

Cheers Jefin