Sour beers

[tazman1967]

The US05, would be fine, you only need it to get things started,
Pitch, then 2-3 days later put your sour bugs in.

 

[mje1980]

I'm doing it the other way. I'm pitching lacto in the keggle ( after it's cooled overnight ). Then after a few days when it tastes "tangy" enough, I'll pull the bag out and boil it to kill the lacto. Then cube and ferment as normal. I've seen it mentioned a few times, Nick R I believe has done it. I'll just use the US05 then, cheers mate.


I like this idea because I don't have to worry about funking up my fermentors. I do have some funky fermentors but they're all full haha.

Will update

 

[tazman1967]

LOL, all good,
I usually use the German Ale for 2-3 days then add the funk.

 

[mje1980]

Do you then leave it for a few months before bottling?.

 

[tazman1967]

Yeah, im lazy, I leave it for 3 months.
Sours cant be rushed, just taste test, when its sour enough for you then bottle.

 

[Jaded and Bitter]

Hey guys, I'm doing a no boil weisse. After a few days in the BIAB keggle ( gunna pitch a smack pack of lacto ), I then plan on boiling, cubing, and once cooled, finishing with standard yeast.

Which one should I use?. Ideally I'd love to use 1007 German ale, but I don't have any. I do have a sachet of notto, but I hate notto, so was thinking of either ordering the German ale, or just going down the road and grabbing some US05. What do you guys reckon??.

I've got to admit I've never tried this, but I do have a couple of comments/suggestions for discussion only.

Which Lacto culture do you have? 'parently WYeast Lacto strain is hetero fermentive, meaning by itself it may not produce Lacto, 'specially without yeast to use up oxygen.

In the no boil I worry about the 'barf smell' bugs, which aint lacto. Its the stuff which grows before lacto kicks its butt.

You could boil as per usual, cool, pitch Lacto and let breed for a few days then pitch the yeast and as suggested leave until you like the flavour profile. if it aint souring quick enough put a brew belt on at like 30 degrees.

Personally Id just use a normal fermentor if only using lacto (unless brevis), its everywhere and were always keeping it in check with standard brewing hygiene.

But as well people have reported good results with the no boil method, and ive never tried it, so really my comments are academic. :beer:

 

[tiprya]

Ok guys, I have a good problem.

I pitched some roselare dregs (only) on a small wort (1.046) hoping for a quickish 'table sour'.

Well it worked too well! After 6 weeks it is super sour - 3.00pH! Nicely lactic, no acetic to my palate. Down to 1.010.

Thinking because it is so acidic I should blend it with another beer - what do you guys reckon? I guess I can leave it and see how it develops initially. I'm afraid bottling it now will be too soon, as I expect it to attenuate a bit more over time.

 

[Jaded and Bitter]

Ok guys, I have a good problem.

I pitched some roselare dregs (only) on a small wort (1.046) hoping for a quickish 'table sour'.

Well it worked too well! After 6 weeks it is super sour - 3.00pH! Nicely lactic, no acetic to my palate. Down to 1.010.

Thinking because it is so acidic I should blend it with another beer - what do you guys reckon? I guess I can leave it and see how it develops initially. I'm afraid bottling it now will be too soon, as I expect it to attenuate a bit more over time.

Let it sit and develop flavour complexity or bottle in coopers king browns or champers bottles with standard carbonation priming and blend in the glass with a nice belgium brune or dubbel - delicious blend.

coopers king browns and champer bottles can handle like 3 times normal carbonation levels, so even if brett chew up the last few points It will likely not bust the bottle or be too carbonated.

 

[mje1980]

I've got to admit I've never tried this, but I do have a couple of comments/suggestions for discussion only.

Which Lacto culture do you have? 'parently WYeast Lacto strain is hetero fermentive, meaning by itself it may not produce Lacto, 'specially without yeast to use up oxygen.

In the no boil I worry about the 'barf smell' bugs, which aint lacto. Its the stuff which grows before lacto kicks its butt.

You could boil as per usual, cool, pitch Lacto and let breed for a few days then pitch the yeast and as suggested leave until you like the flavour profile. if it aint souring quick enough put a brew belt on at like 30 degrees.

Personally Id just use a normal fermentor if only using lacto (unless brevis), its everywhere and were always keeping it in check with standard brewing hygiene.

But as well people have reported good results with the no boil method, and ive never tried it, so really my comments are academic. :beer:

Wyeast 5335. I got it up to 85c and turned the gas off, apparently this will pasteurise the wort. Then, this morning I pitched the lacto, with the wort ( and grains ) at 34c. Tonight when I got home I put the heat belt on, so it should sit around 35 comfortably. I'll taste it fri morning and see if it's tangy enough. Once it is, I'll pull the bag then boil and cube as normal. I'm sure I've read of people doing it this way ( maybe homebrewtalk? ). I hope I wasn't dreaming haha.

Doesn't smell at all after 12 hours. Hopefully a good sign.

 

[mje1980]

Let it sit and develop flavour complexity or bottle in coopers king browns or champers bottles with standard carbonation priming and blend in the glass with a nice belgium brune or dubbel - delicious blend.

coopers king browns and champer bottles can handle like 3 times normal carbonation levels, so even if brett chew up the last few points It will likely not bust the bottle or be too carbonated.

I love champagne bottles. Especially Belgians, and funky beers. Love to hear the pop!!

 

[vykuza]

Looks good mje! Power on through the hot sick phase and it will sweeten up again. I used BRY-97 in my current batch (which is now ready for kegging for half of it, and fruit for the other half). Any neutral yeast will work, but the plainer the better, as there's no hops to hide behind.

Jaded and Bitter - I've not been game to go full no boil, so this is my compromise that mje's using. Pitch lacto in the mash for a quicker sour mash, then quick boil to kill everything and a sacc ferment to finish it off. It's ready as soon as the sacc finishes.

I might do another one soon, but hit APA strength and hop it up properly in the boil. A Sour Pale Ale (SPA?). I think some Nelson would go well with that, though it might end up being a beer version of NZ sauv blanc.

 

[Danwood]

Have a look for Garage Project's Sauvin Nouveau, Nick.

That'd be quite close what you just described...minus the sour aspect.

 

[mje1980]

Looks good mje! Power on through the hot sick phase and it will sweeten up again. I used BRY-97 in my current batch (which is now ready for kegging for half of it, and fruit for the other half). Any neutral yeast will work, but the plainer the better, as there's no hops to hide behind.

Jaded and Bitter - I've not been game to go full no boil, so this is my compromise that mje's using. Pitch lacto in the mash for a quicker sour mash, then quick boil to kill everything and a sacc ferment to finish it off. It's ready as soon as the sacc finishes.

I might do another one soon, but hit APA strength and hop it up properly in the boil. A Sour Pale Ale (SPA?). I think some Nelson would go well with that, though it might end up being a beer version of NZ sauv blanc.

Do you bottle or keg?. I'd normally prefer to bottle but this beer could work quite well in the keg I guess. I have some apricot and also peach extract from Ross. I think it'd work well in it if I find it too sour.

 

[AJ80]

For what it's worth I've just tried my first one of these and it was fermented at 16C with notto to keep the yeast out of the road. Very very happy with this beer - tart and refreshing. Just the right amount of sourness and the low OG will make this one perfect for a summer afternoon. Will be brewing again.

I went down the kettle souring path and used 500g of uncracked pils malt to introduce the lacto for 48 hours before a 30min boil.

 

[seamad]

For what it's worth I've just tried my first one of these and it was fermented at 16C with notto to keep the yeast out of the road. Very very happy with this beer - tart and refreshing. Just the right amount of sourness and the low OG will make this one perfect for a summer afternoon. Will be brewing again.

I went down the kettle souring path and used 500g of uncracked pils malt to introduce the lacto for 48 hours before a 30min boil.

So no lacto culture, just wild ?

 

[Josh]

Hey guys, I'm doing a no boil weisse. After a few days in the BIAB keggle ( gunna pitch a smack pack of lacto ), I then plan on boiling, cubing, and once cooled, finishing with standard yeast.

Which one should I use?. Ideally I'd love to use 1007 German ale, but I don't have any. I do have a sachet of notto, but I hate notto, so was thinking of either ordering the German ale, or just going down the road and grabbing some US05. What do you guys reckon??.

Saw a talk at ANHC 2010 from Jess from Wyeast. Through their testing they came up with the following as the best Berliner Weisse strategy.
Ferment with Lacto for 2-3 days
Add 1007 German Ale for primary fermentation
Add Brett at bottling

I've done the first two with great success. Haven't bothered with Brett at bottling though.

 

[Josh]

Good idea. I just kegged a full keg of Flanders Red minus two bottles for comps + Oak Cubes.

Thinking I could do another Flanders Red and blend in 6-12 months. The trick will be keeping this keg that long. If it does well in the State comp I'll probably just bring the keg to Club Night at ANHC4.

My Flanders came 2nd at the Castle Hill/NSW Comp. I've bottled a bit from the keg already, so I might just bottle the rest and bring it to ANHC4.

Or blend it with a lambic that is a little light on for sourness. Blend tastes pretty good actually.

 

[vykuza]

Do you bottle or keg?. I'd normally prefer to bottle but this beer could work quite well in the keg I guess. I have some apricot and also peach extract from Ross. I think it'd work well in it if I find it too sour.

I keg, and this is a great beer for kegging in hot weather. Nice and cold, low alc, super refreshing and spritzy. Fizzy drink for grownups, especially with a splash of raspberry or lime in it.

 

[AJ80]

So no lacto culture, just wild ?

Yep, wild. Not sure what other bugs got a look in while souring, but the lacto is certainly present in the finished product.

 

[mje1980]

Mine now has a nice white film and a sourish smell. Not over the top, and not vomity, which I think is good . I'll check it tomorrow morning and maybe even risk a taste