Some N00b Questions

[Fermented]

Good Afternoon!

I've been lurking and reading for a while, but have some questions, so registered today. I apologise if they've already been answered elsewhere (and doubtless they have), but I really would like to get off to a good start and do it right. I'm sure you experienced practitioners are bored senseless by those of us starting off.

Equipment
I haven't bought anything yet - just a lot of reading here and at the various manufacturer and shop sites to try to get an average idea of what works. So far, all I can see that is needed is a fermentation vessel (carboy or whatever), airlock (or similar), hydrometer and flask, bottles, bottle tree, sanitisation agents and ingredients. Is this correct? Am I missing anything?

On the bottles front, the household consumes about 12l per week of beer. I guess PET bottles should be OK as there is limited chance of exceeding 6 months (purported oxidation point for storage in PET). Would it be a safer bet than glass? I still remember the horror stories of my Grandfather's home brew attempts in the late 30's and many exploding bottles in the garage in summer, so have some sense of caution. Then again, he was a p*sshead who took shortcuts sometimes.

My plan is to choose a LHBS and be supportive of them until they don't do the right thing (lie, cheat, steal, etc). I would rather help a fellow small-businessman than the corporates. Is this reasonable in home brewing?


Temperature
I live in an old apartment, so don't have the luxury of enough space to make a temperature controlled enclosure.

Being a nerdy engineering type, I've taken the time to make temperature measurements in the places most likely to put the fermentation carboy. With an outdoor ambient temperature of 14 - 25C, the laundry and the bathroom (toilet is elsewhere, so cross contamination/infection by nasties is less probable) are 21 - 23C stable for the past couple of weeks. I realise I'm starting a bit late in the season, but would like to give it a go.

The ambient light in the laundry is far brighter, however, the bathroom has IR lamps which my wife uses for about 20-30 minutes every morning.

The downside of the laundry is the clothes dryer. It runs about twice per week with ambient air temperature of the exhaust somewhere north of 40C (sorry, my temp probe doesn't go higher). I'm guessing that the local temperature increase would be to about 25C at floor level, but the floor is ceramic tile over concrete so I guess the effect on the ferment should be not too significant.

Is UV an issue (ie skunking etc) during primary fermentation or only later in the process? The carboys, etc appear to be made from PP (or are they HDPE?) which as I recall is fairly efficient at filtering UV. Ditto PET for that matter.

Therefore, which location would be better (as both are non-optimal)?


Storage of bottled product:
From the notes around the forum, I understand darker storage locations are preferable during bottle fermentation.

I have a fair amount of empty wine racking in the darkest room of the apartment. Is it OK to store the bottled product for maturation on its side in wine racks (horizontal type, not angled type)? It seems pretty likely that it would be vertical when it's in the fridge for cooling prior to drinking, so the sediment should for the most part go back to the bottom.


And lastly, if anyone has any reasonable suggestion for either a good 3kg 'out of the box, add no more than water' or a reasonably fool-proof other recipe to start off, I would be ever so grateful. The commercial stuff I usually drink is Sapporo, Amsterdam Lager, some Pilseners (but not that horrid Tooheys hangover juice), Tsingtao, etc. It's about enjoying it with food for the most part. I found these ones, mostly, go well with a spicy and light summer menu. And I guess it's easier to make light ones more than dark ones... maybe?


Anyway, thanks in advance for whatever guidance and hints you can share.


Cheers - Fermented.

 

[datman510]

hey there mate,

this one is like the intro manual

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...?showtopic=9233

this is a thread i started in relation to light affecting beer during fermentation

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=25857

dont let you beer get too hot, i think getting up to around 26-27 would be stretching the relationship (correct me if im wrong). put it in a cupboard or something.

Best thing to do (IMO) would be read this stuff then head down to the LHBS you choose and have a chat to the fella down there.
He'll hook you up with gear, advice and ingredients to get you going.

Just jump in and give it a go

Gareth

 

[wambesi]

Hi Fermented and welcome to the forum!

First of all reading what you have written I my first advice about the equipment would be to go buy a coopers kit or similar setup from yoru LHBS.
The LHBS might offer a better deal with a bench capper etc which is a must if you decide to go glass.

Secondly read up on those links and all the airlocked intro posts and the wiki articles, there is a wealth of info on here all ready for the reading!

The bottles issue is much of a muchness, I personally use both and don't see an issue. I started mainly with PET and bit by bit converted almost all to glass, I do two PET min per brew so I can squeeze the bottles to assess the carbonation level.
The ol bottles blowing up is more myth than reality - HOWEVER it can happen if you dont take proper precautions. If you do have bottles blow up it's usually because fermentation was not complete (use your hydrometer), too much sugar to prime (bulk priming is easier and more efficient - use a priming calculator) or you have picked up an infection/contamination (use your sanitiser).

There are plenty of threads regarding all the above issues and plenty of options for all of them again.

For my fermentation when outside the fridge I don't cover with anything, they are in the garage on a shelf, but they do not cop direct light for any decent times, I don't think it is too much of an issue, more so is once in the bottle. My advice again would be to store the bottles upright all the time, you will find the yeast will settle out and alot of the time compact up. Alot of my brews the yeast layer on the bottom hardly moves - you dont want this up along the bottle!
Maybe invest in some second hand stackable milk crates - they're awesome!

There are plenty of ways for temp control, again do a seach on the forum, people use towels, fans, can coolers and alot more during the summer to keep temps down if you are not lucky enough to have a dedicated fridge and fridgemate - make the room, you wont regret it!

I'm going to leave that for now, keep asking your questions, we all were in your shoes once!

 

[Goofinder]

You can generally count on a wet towel wrapped around the fermenter to knock a couple of degrees off, so at an ambient temp of 21-23 you should be about spot on for brewing ales. Also, I assume the floor in your laundry/bathroom is tiled so this will help to dissipate some heat (tiles always feel cooler).

I brew just about all year round in the laundry and with a wet towel around the fermenter and an ice pack or two can maintain a pretty stable 20-22 degrees with ambient temps that can get up to around 28 degrees in the middle of summer. The towel will also help to block out a bit of the UV.

As for equipment, I say grab a kit (whatever your LHBS does, or the Coopers one), they come with all the bits you'll need to get started. I still use the Coopers PET bottles and haven't had any problems with them. Most of my beer is consumed within about 4-5 months. I like the PET since I can fit more of them in a smaller space (the laundry cupboard is my beer storage facility).

 

[hazz20]

Hey there, some awesome links on this sight,articles forums etc., also a good one is john palmers 'how to brew', which is available online, John Palmer.
Hope the link works.
As long as you stick to the rules, ie let fermentation finish fully, and don't over prime your bottles, bottle bombs won't be a problem, I haven't had one explode yet.
Dave's homebrew, brewcraft, as well as oliver and geoffs are all handy sights.
If you're brewing lagers with a genuine lager yeast, ferment at 10-14 degrees, for ales about 18-20. The yeast you get in the cheaper kits (basic coopers) are usually ale yeasts, even if it's a lager goo can. I always usually update to a better style of yeast, many different ones depending on the brew type.
Keep out of the sunlight apparently no good. I've always been told to store mine upright.
For a recipe, grab a coopers or morgans can of goo, grab a decent yeast, (LHBS will help), dont use normal sugar, grab a coopers brew enhancer to start with, maybe steep some hops if you're feeling adventurous, there aren't really any rules so just go for it. Soon you'll be trying all sorts of different malts and stuff, just keep surfing the web for recipes, you'll find them.

Have fun now,

Hazz

 

[hazz20]

Stuffed the link somehow, look up john palmers how to brew in google.

Hazz

 

[mesa]

Welcome to the hobby!

Equipment
I haven't bought anything yet - just a lot of reading here and at the various manufacturer and shop sites to try to get an average idea of what works. So far, all I can see that is needed is a fermentation vessel (carboy or whatever), airlock (or similar), hydrometer and flask, bottles, bottle tree, sanitisation agents and ingredients. Is this correct? Am I missing anything?

On the bottles front, the household consumes about 12l per week of beer. I guess PET bottles should be OK as there is limited chance of exceeding 6 months (purported oxidation point for storage in PET). Would it be a safer bet than glass? I still remember the horror stories of my Grandfather's home brew attempts in the late 30's and many exploding bottles in the garage in summer, so have some sense of caution. Then again, he was a p*sshead who took shortcuts sometimes.

My plan is to choose a LHBS and be supportive of them until they don't do the right thing (lie, cheat, steal, etc). I would rather help a fellow small-businessman than the corporates. Is this reasonable in home brewing?

You can do without the bottle tree (although you will find it useful). I've always had great success with bleaching equipement with unscented bleach at a rate of 4ml bleach to 1L or water for 20 min to sanitise. Rinse it off afterwards with boiled water.

If you can get a second fermenter to use as a bottling bucket (mix sugar solution with beer in the bottling bucket then fill bottles) that would be good. Otherwise use carbonation drop (look like a barley sugar lollie). I think you'll find putting 1tsp or whatever of sugar in each bottle a PitA.

The rinse with boiled water thing is less practical with PET than with glass. Personally I prefer glass 375ml bottles (despite the extra effort compared to 750 PET) you might also consider 2L PET recycled soft drink if you drink enough in a sitting.

Temperature
I live in an old apartment, so don't have the luxury of enough space to make a temperature controlled enclosure.

Being a nerdy engineering type, I've taken the time to make temperature measurements in the places most likely to put the fermentation carboy. With an outdoor ambient temperature of 14 - 25C, the laundry and the bathroom (toilet is elsewhere, so cross contamination/infection by nasties is less probable) are 21 - 23C stable for the past couple of weeks. I realise I'm starting a bit late in the season, but would like to give it a go.

The ambient light in the laundry is far brighter, however, the bathroom has IR lamps which my wife uses for about 20-30 minutes every morning.

The downside of the laundry is the clothes dryer. It runs about twice per week with ambient air temperature of the exhaust somewhere north of 40C (sorry, my temp probe doesn't go higher). I'm guessing that the local temperature increase would be to about 25C at floor level, but the floor is ceramic tile over concrete so I guess the effect on the ferment should be not too significant.

Is UV an issue (ie skunking etc) during primary fermentation or only later in the process? The carboys, etc appear to be made from PP (or are they HDPE?) which as I recall is fairly efficient at filtering UV. Ditto PET for that matter.

Therefore, which location would be better (as both are non-optimal)?

I don't think light exposure will be an issue. I'd recomend a wet towel around the fermenter and a fan to make an evapourative air conditioner if you can. Otherwise pick the location that will annoy your wife least.

Storage of bottled product:
From the notes around the forum, I understand darker storage locations are preferable during bottle fermentation.

I have a fair amount of empty wine racking in the darkest room of the apartment. Is it OK to store the bottled product for maturation on its side in wine racks (horizontal type, not angled type)? It seems pretty likely that it would be vertical when it's in the fridge for cooling prior to drinking, so the sediment should for the most part go back to the bottom.

The acronym RDWHAH comes to mind (stands for Relax, Don't Worry, Have a Homebrew) except you don't have any homebrew yet!

I'd suggest some of those plastic hobby boxes (around 55L) to store all your bottles in. If they leak (or in the case of glass explode) this will make for easier cleanup. It will also cut out even more UV (although brown glass or brown PET does this pretty well) Also Adamt noted in the other thread, kit beers shouldn't be affected by UV in any significant manner at all.

And don't stress about the sediment. It'll all work out OK.

And lastly, if anyone has any reasonable suggestion for either a good 3kg 'out of the box, add no more than water' or a reasonably fool-proof other recipe to start off, I would be ever so grateful. The commercial stuff I usually drink is Sapporo, Amsterdam Lager, some Pilseners (but not that horrid Tooheys hangover juice), Tsingtao, etc. It's about enjoying it with food for the most part. I found these ones, mostly, go well with a spicy and light summer menu. And I guess it's easier to make light ones more than dark ones... maybe?

Actually it tends to be easier to get a good result from dark beers than light beers. As a general rule light beers have subtler flavours. Dark beers usually have some strong flavours that will hide a multitude of sins. Unfortunatly I can't honestly say that anything is fool-proof without temperature control. I can say, ask your local homebrew shop and try to avoid putting in too much sugar. Brew enchancers are OK. Get yeast from the homebrew shops fridge and try to avoid buying from the supermarket.

Hope that helps.

 

[wambesi]

And lastly, if anyone has any reasonable suggestion for either a good 3kg 'out of the box, add no more than water' or a reasonably fool-proof other recipe to start off, I would be ever so grateful. The commercial stuff I usually drink is Sapporo, Amsterdam Lager, some Pilseners (but not that horrid Tooheys hangover juice), Tsingtao, etc. It's about enjoying it with food for the most part. I found these ones, mostly, go well with a spicy and light summer menu. And I guess it's easier to make light ones more than dark ones... maybe?

I forgot to say if your after a foolproof nothing much more to do at all, try your brewshops for the fresh wort kits. Never done one myself but almost everyone that has has raved about them. They're usually 15L kits and just add a few litres of water. It's basically an AG made by someone else.

 

[Bribie G]

If you are pressed for space then PET is a good choice. I bottle in two litre PET which are all ALDI cola bottles which are not only 99 cents each but come in boxes of six, so you can store an entire brew very compactly in just two cartons if you brew to 24 litres.





Brewing for four months now, they hold the pressure well and I have no desire to go to glass.

As previous poster said, your best bet is to get a basic kit such as a Coopers home brewery and familiarise yourself with fermenting, sanitising, bottling etc before branching out. Welcome to the second oldest profession after you-know-what :lol: :lol:

 

[mika]

And lastly, if anyone has any reasonable suggestion for either a good 3kg 'out of the box, add no more than water' ...

If they still do them the ESB 3kg 'Paint tin' kits are the way to go, some nice goo right there.

 

[Pollux]

As previous poster said, your best bet is to get a basic kit such as a Coopers home brewery and familiarise yourself with fermenting, sanitising, bottling etc before branching out. Welcome to the second oldest profession after you-know-what :lol: :lol:

I can vouch for this, I have bought two of the coopers microbrew kits from K-mart, and for the items thrown in they are great for starting out....

Every batch I bottle has some of the PET bottles so I can do squeeze tests for carbonation and also some cantina (poor mans corona) so I can see the colour as it settles.

Funny, I sold my car as I could walk to everything I needed, then I started brewing, now the nearest LHBS is too far away, so i do all my shopping at the local coles, and while I would never claim to make "great" beer, I make beer that I am happy with, and given the lowest level I buy at a bottle-o is James Squires or Monteiths, I don't think I'm doing too badly.

 

[Fermented]

Hi Guys!

Thanks for the enthusiastic welcome, supportive tips and guidance. Very greatly appreciated.

I'll take it all on board, read more (thanks for all the great links!) and get my hands dirty maybe later in the week when I have time to go to the LHBS.

I'll post back sometime in the next week or so with either a tale of sweet beery success or dismal failure.

Cheers - Fermented.

 

[raven19]

I find keeping the just bottled beer in the laundry or in a storage container for the first month will ensure any explosions can be contained or directed to the floor drain. Better that than spilling on the carpet. That being said, I have not had any blowouts whilst storing inside away from extreme heat.

I also agree with a standard home brew starter kit from the LHBS. Cant go wrong as long as everything is clean and sanitised.

Cheers.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I would also stronlgy recommend reading this

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...;showarticle=18


And dont be scared of asking questions...





And if the the topics of this thread changes to something like how a small dog would be able to build a rocket out of fence posts...dont worry...thats pretty normal on this site :icon_cheers:

 

[Fermented]

And dont be scared of asking questions...

I won't be... but out of respect I will try to read first and then seek clarification if I can't get my head around what has been written.

And if the the topics of this thread changes to something like how a small dog would be able to build a rocket out of fence posts...dont worry...thats pretty normal on this site :icon_cheers:

I wouldn't be surprised in the least. There seem to have been some fun threads that I've found - and by the look of it usually after a good session.

I have read some more this morning, so know just enough to be dangerous. Am going out for some meetings, so will pick up the hardware on the way home. It's nice and cool today and looks to be for the next week, so it might be the exactly right time to start.

Wish me luck!

Cheers - Fermented.

Cheers - Fermented.

 

[FreemanDC]

www.ibrew.com.au -

http://www.ibrew.com.au/html/beer/drypacklist.html

I brew have some pretty darn good 3kg dry packs, ive made some tasty beers but just adding a wee bit warm water then top up to 21-22, the yeasts are pretty touchy about temps though, so good controll is needed.
- Not sure about their mail process though, i've allways been instore to pick them up.
- they guy behind the desk will talk your ear off, so don't call him.

Good luck on your brewing adventure.

 

[cdbrown]

Welcome to the clan Fermented. Bottle tree isn't needed, it's just an easier way for your bottles to dry after washing. If you get a no-rinse sanitizer like starsan, you don't need to let it drip dry. Some ice packs or just frozen water bottles will help keep the temp down. If your esky is big enough you can put the fermentor inside it with some ice to keep the temps inside nice and constant.

The bigger the bottle, the less fiddling you do on bottling day, but having a carton or so of the smaller 375ml from each batch is handy when going off to a party. Make sure to work out the priming rate needed for the particular beer you've brewed.

Remember different styles will take different times in the bottle to mature - don't be too eager to drink your batch as you may miss out on a well rounded beer. Easy way to combat this is to constantly make beer. You'll have to drink your normal beer until you have a decent stock pile and the beer has a chance to gas and mature.

 

[raven19]

Agree with cbbrown, a variety of bottle sizes helps.

And certainly keep brewing, I am sure most of us are guilty of trying, then finishing our very first batch of beer before allowing it to age. I try to put away a carton for later sampling.

Also take notes so you can look back in 6 months or so and know what you did / did not like so you can make it again... or never again!

I find reusing cartons and the 6-pack holders (cardboard type from Coopers) keeps the light out nicely, and ease of stacking once you start a large collection of beers...

Best of luck.

Cheers.

 

[Fermented]

The bigger the bottle, the less fiddling you do on bottling day, but having a carton or so of the smaller 375ml from each batch is handy when going off to a party.

lol... I think my mates can handle it a longneck at a time. We're, for the most part mid-30s to early-40s and corporate or ex-corporate so have case-hardened-chrome-vanadium livers. And if not, then more for me.

Remember different styles will take different times in the bottle to mature - don't be too eager to drink your batch as you may miss out on a well rounded beer. Easy way to combat this is to constantly make beer. You'll have to drink your normal beer until you have a decent stock pile and the beer has a chance to gas and mature.

I'm a wine collector from way back when, so I know the difference time makes in waiting for some and not waiting for others. There are some in my offsite storage that aren't meant to be ready for another ten to thirty years. I won't let eagerness get in the way of a good product, for certain. I will still be rather keen to try a little at the one-month out stage and be a slight tosser with tasting notes and all each time I pull a bottle for tasting, um, testing . I want to learn how to make good drinkables in a few styles, so it's just going to take time, time and more time and good notes about what was good, when and why.

And certainly keep brewing, I am sure most of us are guilty of trying, then finishing our very first batch of beer before allowing it to age. I try to put away a carton for later sampling.

At the moment, Amsterdam Lager is available rather inexpensively. It's by no way a true lager or even a true Dutch lager. It's just nice and cool and refreshing and goes well with a lot of the powerful chilli and belachan foods I make at this time of year. So, the homebrew can take its time to develop some complexity and let the chemistry settle out a bit before subjecting my tastebuds to it.

Also take notes so you can look back in 6 months or so and know what you did / did not like so you can make it again... or never again!

Absolutely agreed. I've spent a lot of time on the road over the years going to vineyards to improve my collection and for wine for enjoyment. Beer is the same, if indeed even more complex because of its shorter fermentation and maturation process - so much less margin for error. If it wasn't for some of the notes I took more than ten years ago, especially on days when I swallowed instead of spitting, I wouldn't have a clue of the more important details of some bottles and cases, let alone the wine maker's recommendations (the joy of doing it in the middle of the week - you very often get to meet the man behind the bottle).



Long story short, I went to the LHBS, grabbed a carboy and all the right toys to make it work. Am waiting on the wife to come home from work now as she wants to be a part of our first yeasty offspring. Hmmm - I think I can assign sanitising to her. Or maybe not - I'm much fussier abot minute details than she is.

Am being a bit shy for the first try, so took a Coopers Premium Heritage Lager. It's the style I like but I know that by none but the loosest definition will it be a lager. It's a starting point.

I also grabbed a fresh wort - Brewers Selection Czech Pils and Brewmaster (I think) European Lager yeast.

As soon as #1 is out of the can, it's time to clean and start #2. And pray just a little that it's not fertiliser.

Cheers - Fermented.

 

[dr K]

Join a club
Go to club meetings.
Get a wide range of comments about your beers, as they taste not as they sound.
Enter comps, even if your beer is crud you will get feedback, look for BJCP Sanctioned comps, here the judges will be of tested quality and will give you informed feedback.
Its the difference between taking advice from the check-out chick and talking to the winemaker over a glass of product.

K