Simplest Cider

[Greg Lawrence]

I think plain old ALDI juice has an SG of 1.042-1.046

Thanks Verbyla

 

[Phoney]

I put on this cider last friday:

12L Apple Juice from ALDI
8L Berri Apple & Pear Juice
3 x packets yeast nutrient
3 x Cinnamon sticks
2 x Granny smith apples quatered
1 x Pink lady apple quatered
300g LDME
wyeast 4766 pitched in 500ml starter with 50g LDME

OG 1055

Got the tempmate set to 18.5C. 6 days in the bubbling has slowed right down, ill be taking a measurement tonight then another on Saturday and if they're the same ill rack to secondary and stick that in a fridge @ 4C for another 14 days.


The funny thing about 4766 it produces no krausen! Neither in the starter nor the fermenter... I wasnt expecting that...

 

[Trav]

Hi people Trav from Kooinda Boutique Brewery, all this talk of cider i am wondering if it could be an option for a new release at the brewery. I was just wondering if anybody knows of any apple growers in outer melb that well sell bulk amounts, say 500 litres at a time of apple juice suitable for making cider. Do people think it would be a good idea to release such a product? Look fowward to any feedback! :icon_chickcheers:
Cheers Trav

 

[Fermented]

I was talking about cider with a mate from Alsace (western France, they tend to be more German than French about a lot of things). While he loves cider, as do some pommy mates, they tend to think of it as a summer drink taken cold more than anything else.

@ Trav: There has been a UK-driven resurgence in ciders globally over the past couple of years. It might be a good bet for you but I wouldn't pin my profits on market research from one source alone.


The cider I did finished up at around 1010 @ 19C. Tastes pretty good. Minimal sweetness, but a slight bit of astringence from the ascorbic acid in the Aldi juice. Have bottled some with dex for priming and some with a touch of lactose to try for a girly sweet one.


Cheers - Fermented.

 

[Fourstar]

I was just wondering if anybody knows of any apple growers in outer melb that well sell bulk amounts, say 500 litres at a time of apple juice suitable for making cider. Do people think it would be a good idea to release such a product?

Hey Trav, Might not hurt to have a chat with Coldstream brewery... They might be able to give you some contacts. I believe the get their apples/juice for a local supplier in the Yarra Valley.

 

[Fents]

Hey Trav, Might not hurt to have a chat with Coldstream brewery... They might be able to give you some contacts. I believe the get their apples/juice for a local supplier in the Yarra Valley.

No they dont they get it from kellybrook winery in Wonga Park. Coldstream was setup by one of the Kelly brothers i belive.

 

[Fourstar]

No they dont they get it from kellybrook winery in Wonga Park. Coldstream was setup by one of the Kelly brothers i belive.

Isn't that in the Yarra Valley? h34r:

 

[saccarin63]

Isn't that in the Yarra Valley? h34r:

correct fresh apples from the yarra valley.

 

[Fourstar]

correct fresh apples from the yarra valley.

Mickey chimes in to stir the pot! :lol:

 

[Fents]

and here i was thinking i actually knew something fourstar didnt know. ba bow. back to the drawing board.

 

[T.D.]

I've read this thread and the other cider threads a few times and have bitten the bullet.

* Juiced 12 kg of Bilpin apples (sorry - haven't identified the species) yielding 6 litre of juice
* Pasteurised the juice and skimmed the crud off
* Topped up to 24 l with Aldi juice
* Whipped it into a frenzy, pitched S-04

Hi Fermented,

I'm quite interested in doing a cider. But if I did I'd like to try and make it out of fresh apples. You are the only person I can find in this thread who's done anything with fresh apples.

For the apples you juiced yourself, did you cut the core out and peel the skin off? Also, is it necessary to pasturise the juice? They don't pasturise grape juice when making wine, I would have thought it'd be the same for cider.

And one more question... will the clarity of the cider be the same using freshly juiced apples than apple juice from the supermarket? That is, will the cloudy pulp settle out?

 

[manticle]

Hi people Trav from Kooinda Boutique Brewery, all this talk of cider i am wondering if it could be an option for a new release at the brewery. I was just wondering if anybody knows of any apple growers in outer melb that well sell bulk amounts, say 500 litres at a time of apple juice suitable for making cider. Do people think it would be a good idea to release such a product? Look fowward to any feedback! :icon_chickcheers:
Cheers Trav

Can't help you with the growing part of it but I'd be happy to help with the purchasing and drinking side of it. I have a couple of non-brewing mates who love cider too.

I think it's a good idea - cider tends to appeal to a lot of people who aren't necessarily beer drinkers (as well as some like myself who are) so it might open up your market. MAke it better than the little creatures one (a bit bland as far as I'm concerned). I love a cider that actually tastes like apples.

 

[saccarin63]

and here i was thinking i actually knew something fourstar didnt know. ba bow. back to the drawing board.

you the man ratsruof

 

[Fermented]

For the apples you juiced yourself, did you cut the core out and peel the skin off? Also, is it necessary to pasturise the juice? They don't pasturise grape juice when making wine, I would have thought it'd be the same for cider.

Nope - cut 'em, fed 'em into the juicer, dumped the pulp every litre or so. I've explained my reasons for pasteurisation in the link below. There are two schools on the thought and there are some really excellent and long-winded and useful explanations in another thread somewhere around here. I don't recall which ones I read to do the research, but it's worth doing so that you can make a decision that better suits your desired outcome.

And one more question... will the clarity of the cider be the same using freshly juiced apples than apple juice from the supermarket? That is, will the cloudy pulp settle out?

Similar. Have a read over here: http://yeastygoodness.blogspot.com/2009/07...der-tastic.html It's what I did exactly, whether right or wrong. Turned out rather clear at 1.5W and I expect it to floc out further during bottle conditioning. The pics from the job aren't up yet. Will do that later this arvo when I have a moment.

Lunch over - work time now.

Cheers - Fermented.

 

[manticle]

Hi Fermented,

I'm quite interested in doing a cider. But if I did I'd like to try and make it out of fresh apples. You are the only person I can find in this thread who's done anything with fresh apples.

For the apples you juiced yourself, did you cut the core out and peel the skin off? Also, is it necessary to pasturise the juice? They don't pasturise grape juice when making wine, I would have thought it'd be the same for cider.

And one more question... will the clarity of the cider be the same using freshly juiced apples than apple juice from the supermarket? That is, will the cloudy pulp settle out?

Brewer Pete will have done a few (or many). I've done a couple as well (one with 8 kg apples plus juice + kit and one with an unknown quantiy of apples (yield was about 10 L) + juice plus water)

I'm putting one on either tomorrow or Saturday that will be all apple.

My tips - buy a blend of apples. You need to balance sweet and bitter and acid.

You do not need to skin the apples. I core them because I'm paranoid about getting any of the bitter seeds in the brew. Take the stickers off too.

You can use campden tablets to kill any microbes but personally I find sulphites and apples to be enemies. Soft (non alcoholic) cider is usually pasteurised but because the yeast action will develop an alcoholic environment you can get away with unpasteurised (in my opinion and experience). I also read that somewhere so it's not just me - came across it when trying to research my last one and I ended up using no campden and no pasteurisation and 20 L later I'm alive and well. It's mainly for non-alcoholic fresh cider as far as I know.

As for clarity - before adding any yeast allow the juice to sit for about 48 hours. A crust will form (a bit like a krausen). Rack to a different fermenter, leaving this crust behind. Add yeast and ferment. I reckon cooler temps are better. I use a wine yeast which can ferment low and I treat it much like a lager - slow cool ferment (probably a touch higher than lager though - about 12 -14). I use lactose to stop it becoming absolutely dry - it's up to you how dry you like and there are various different methods of sweetening and back sweetening. I make a starter so that fermentation kicks off quickly - helps ensure no bugs or wild yeasts get a hold. I think my last starter was just yeast and dex although you could probably try juice.

When fermented (wine yeast gets it to 1000) I cold condition which further helps with clarity. I believe Brewer Pete has some other things he does to get crystal clear cider but they involve more patience than I've so far exhibited.

Some people don't like the dryness of wine or champagne yeast. Preference and experimentation will tell you what you want to use. Age well (months rather than weeks).

You will need to use some yeast nutrient too.

 

[Phoney]

I just checked my gravity, only down to 1020 <_< Now i had a look on the wyeast website, it says for for cider yeast to keep it at 21-24C

So ive bumped it up to 21C. WHat FG's have you guys achieved with this yeast?


EDIT: Also, it tastes quite sour/tart - is this normal at this stage?

 

[Fourstar]

and here i was thinking i actually knew something fourstar didnt know. ba bow. back to the drawing board.

Didnt say you where wrong mate, just said mine may also be right (wonga park = yarra valley). Tyou merely pinned the location if its correct.

So, when are you inviting us all around for another kickass spit thats ready by midnight? :lol:

 

[T.D.]

Thanks Fermented and Manticle. I was up in Orange on the weekend and noticed an apple orchard that had a "self serve" system for buying their apples (presumably like an honesty system) so next time I am up there I might drop in and grab a few kilos. Worth giving it a try I reckon. I like the idea of making a cider from bare-bones ingredients.

 

[WarmBeer]

I've got a really simple cider experiment going at the moment (i.e. 2lt ALDI juice bottle with some US-05 slurry chucked in, yup, that's simple).

I've been wondering about how to stop the yeast from fermenting out 100% of the (fructose/sucrose, I assume) sugars, as I want to be able to produce cider that Mrs. WarmBeer will like, so not too dry.

Am currently thinking I can either freeze the cider temporarily, which will both drop out and kill off any live yeast, or alternately, heat the finished cider to a point that will kill off the live yeast, without evaporating the alcohol.

Has anybody got any prior experience doing either of these? I think the freezing method will be easier, as I know from prior "cold conditioning" experience my fridge can get down low enough.

Cheers,

WarmBeer

 

[manticle]

I don't think freezing kills yeast. Heating it might alter the flavours. Adding lactose at the beginning will add sweetness to the final product. You can also backsweeten but I've not done it. Alternatively, you can use campden (sodium or potassium metabisulphite) to stop fermentation but this is not a method I like.