Simplest Cider

[Yuma]

What kind of Apple Juice should I use?
Ideally, you want to use 100% natural apple juice with no preservatives. The only acceptable preservative is ascorbic acid, which is a source of vitamin C and does not affect fermentation. Pasteurized juice is preferred, since it will have less bacteria.

So, things like nat. flavours and food acids are ok? I tried 2 diff Aldi's and a Woolies and none had 100% apple juice with only Ascorbic acid.

 

[Fermented]

So, things like nat. flavours and food acids are ok? I tried 2 diff Aldi's and a Woolies and none had 100% apple juice with only Ascorbic acid.

Ascorbic acid is OK and won't have an effect on fermentation etc. It does tend to add to the tartness a little, but ages out nicely.

Cheers - Fermented.

 

[Yuma]

So by that ill assume the food acid is alright also?

 

[Melon]

So maybe the S-04 or there abouts?

Safale S-04 is a great yeast for newbie brewers. In my experience it carbonates in the bottle fairly quickly and for your first couple of brews you just want to drink it as soon as possible.
View attachment Safale_S_04.pdf

However I'd also recommend the Lavlin EC-1118. It takes a bit longer in the bottle to carbonate, but leaves a lot more of the flavour behind.
View attachment Lalvin_EC_1118.pdf

Has anyone else used the Saflager S-23? I did a test batch because it's said to give "fruity esters". What I produced though most ppl said tasted like cheap cask wine.
Good thing there was only 6 bottles. It was considerably poorer than the other brews I've done with similar wort mixes.

My tastes run to the dry end of the spectrum but to prevent my beverages being overly dry I add about 50g Lactose to a 5L brew.

 

[Verbyla]

Just started my first apple juicing project and realised there was a few basic things i still didn't know

So here it is:
Just wondering what exactly does pectinase do to apple juice and when should it be added?

ALSO

At what temperature should juice be pasteurised at and how long should the temperaure be held?

I've taken plenty of photos and will let you know how everything is going as soon as i'm done with juicing all 50kgs of the bloody apples!

 

[Airgead]

Just started my first apple juicing project and realised there was a few basic things i still didn't know

So here it is:
Just wondering what exactly does pectinase do to apple juice and when should it be added?

ALSO

At what temperature should juice be pasteurised at and how long should the temperaure be held?

I've taken plenty of photos and will let you know how everything is going as soon as i'm done with juicing all 50kgs of the bloody apples!

Pectinaise is a pectic enzyme. It is used to break down the pectins in fruit juice. What they actually do is make sure all the juice is released from the pulp and help the pulp settle so you get a clear end product.

Pasteurisation is hard to do at home. Ideally you hold it at over 70c for 30 mins or so but you then end up with cooked apple flavours. Commercially they flash pasteurise at 95+ under pressure for about 30 secs but you can't do that without specialised kit. If you just want to prevent wild fermentation you can use campden (suplhate) tablets to inhibit the wild yeast.

Cheers
Dave

 

[Fermented]

>72C for 3 minutes will do just fine.

Have done it with a batch of 100% freshly juiced apples (Pink Lady) and there were no adverse effects.

You're only targeting the 80% of nasties that may do injury to you or the cider. The other 20% are of less concern.

Cheers - Fermented.

 

[Verbyla]

Thanks for that guys.

I don't want sulfur any where near the cider so i think i'll stick to the 3 minutes pasteurisation and just build up a big starter to ensure the yeast overwhelm any other nasties.

I'll also make sure i use the pectinase after i pasteurise all the juice.

How did the 100% pink lady cider turn out Fermented???

 

[manticle]

There's no real need. Pasteurisation is often done to soft ciders but if you are producing ethanol you will drive away most of the bacteria responsible for illness (which I think is mainly e.coli - could be wrong). I've made several apple/juice based ciders and I use neither campden nor pasteurisation.

Personal experience and a link I read only - I have no peer reviewed studies but my stomach says it's all good.

 

[Fermented]

If it's based on all commercial juice, which is normally pasteurised, there is nothing to worry about. Sanitise, pour, pitch, wait, bottle/keg, wait, drink and be merry.

With apples from an orchard, there is a concern which justifies pasteurisation. Not all the apples have come from the tree. Some are picked up off from the ground. The ground is very often fertilised with chook poo - a top source of salmonella and some other choice pathogens. The ethanol will knock off a good percentage of those, but for the sake of a few minutes at 72C, it's better safe than sorry. It's just risk mitigation.

Campden tabs? Hmmm - sulphury scented goodness. I give 'em a big miss.

Cheers - Fermented.

 

[manticle]

If it's based on all commercial juice, which is normally pasteurised, there is nothing to worry about. Sanitise, pour, pitch, wait, bottle/keg, wait, drink and be merry.

With apples from an orchard, there is a concern which justifies pasteurisation. Not all the apples have come from the tree. Some are picked up off from the ground. The ground is very often fertilised with chook poo - a top source of salmonella and some other choice pathogens. The ethanol will knock off a good percentage of those, but for the sake of a few minutes at 72C, it's better safe than sorry. It's just risk mitigation.

Campden tabs? Hmmm - sulphury scented goodness. I give 'em a big miss.

Cheers - Fermented.

I don't pasteurise when I use fresh apples either. I understand what you're saying but I would bite into those apples after a quick rinse without issue so juicing and chucking a yeast starter straight on top doesn't worry me. Changing the flavour of the cider with heat does.

I agree 100% on the campden.

 

[Fermented]

Thanks for that guys.

I don't want sulfur any where near the cider so i think i'll stick to the 3 minutes pasteurisation and just build up a big starter to ensure the yeast overwhelm any other nasties.

I'll also make sure i use the pectinase after i pasteurise all the juice.

How did the 100% pink lady cider turn out Fermented???

The Pink Lady turned out rather OK. There is still some aging. I had a few mugs of it straight from the fermenter and it was rather tasty.

A big starter isn't really needed. A single S-04 / S-05 will do just fine. However lately I've just been bottling and adding the next 20-odd litres and going again. I now have one fermenter doing only cider. It takes off quickly, ferments pretty much at a normal pace. The sediment layer needs a stir after the first five litres are in there and then roughly pour in the rest to the desired volume. I find that more ferments over the same cake adds to the character, especially if there have been different varieties of apples or mixes of commercial and fresh used. Not ideal methodology at all, but it's working (wouldn't use it for beer fermentation) to a maximum of five batches over the same yeast.

Clarity isn't a big issue. It's just time in the bottle and time in the fermenter and it comes out rather nicely. Not commercial clear, but just rather nice.

I'm looking forward to getting my hands on some Notto and giving it another shot soon.

Cheers - Fermented.

 

[Fermented]

@ manticle:
I do the juicing skins and all after a quick wash. I might give it a shot, unpasteurised, next time around if the apples look to be top notch rather than the seconds and the like I pick up in Bilpin or at Paddys.

Cheers - Fermented.

 

[manticle]

Just did a quick net search to find a couple of reference points for non pasteurisation of hard ciders.

I haven't evaluated the references particularly so it's more of reading interest than a dogmatic 'this is how it is' link.


Book on growing apples
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=N6Dk8E...;q=&f=false

Wikipedia link mentions pateurisation for soft cider but the hard cider link says nothing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cider
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_cider#Pasteurization from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_cider

Interesting discussion among homebrewing cider makers here: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/320065

And a more scientific article on a possible process of pasteurising hard cider (abstract only unfortunately but I'm sure if you can find the whole article it will be informative): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_cider):

http://vivo.cornell.edu/individual/vivo/individual16419

And another scientific assessment abstarct on pasteurisation - makes note of different flavours, particularly wherer more heat is applied.

Cheers.

 

[Fermented]

I've read that article at Cornell in the past. There are some others which agree with it or similar.

I am confident that there is some flavour change after application of heat to the raw juice. It does visibly darken during the heating process. However, I find it's a great opportunity to lift the scum out of the juice and create a purer (visually) product. I photographed it when I did it the first time and have been meaning to add it to my blog but I have been too busy.

If I had my druthers, I would rather push it through a 5 - 10 micron filter and UV sterilisation rig, but that's dollars I don't want to spend. I think that kind of effective commercial style preparation would add some quality to the product but for every up there's doubtless a down.

Cheers - Fermented.

 

[manticle]

I find just leaving the juice in the fermenter a couple of days before pitching gets rid of most of the scum. I rack leaving that behind, pitch, ferment low, fine and cold condition and generally get clear cider after 2 weeks in the bottle.

Anyway the more methods you know about the more techniques you have at your disposal I guess. That's half the fun.

 

[Fermented]

Good idea... one more thing to add to my to-do list of experiments!

Cheers - Fermented.

 

[manticle]

So the recent two ciders I've made have both been in the bottle a week.

First was around 30 kg of different apples and was intended to be all apple but due to equipment breakdowns and having to use a food processor to juice (I do not reccommend this) I had to top up with around 12 L of ALDI juice.

Fermented with white wine yeast at around 12 degrees, added 500g lactose, racked to secondary, cold conditioned for just over a week then left at ambient temperatures for another week before bottling.

Verdict so far (yes I know cider takes a good time to come to its prime): very little carbonation, fairly clear, lovely crisp apple flavour, quite dry due to the wine yeast but held off bone dry by the lactose and nice discernible apple flavour. No sulphur: easily the best cider I've done.

Second was a kit I've had sitting around for yonks. When I racked the first I thought "why not?" and brewed straight onto the yeast cake, added around 6 L of store bought juice, some dextrose and raw sugar and topped up with water. Same fermenting conditions as above, slightly less cold conditioning time, bottled straight after cc.

Verdict so far: For an unknown reason, this is much more carbonated and gives a beautiful fluffy white head reminiscent of Duvel. I bulk primed both at the same time with the same sugar solution and bottled both simultaneously so the difference is presumably in the brew ingredients themselves. Both stored in the same place too. Much sweeter - presumably due to the malt and aspartame present in the brigalow kit used. Still some apple flavour, presumably due to the juice but version 1 knocks it on the head. Some sulphur which dissipates readily after pouring - maybe due to the slightly less conditioning time (both produced some during fermentation and no sulphites were used in either brew). Better than an average kit but the first shows me how tasty fresh ingredients will make something and there's no way I'd be buying another kit to try and replicate this. It will suffice for drinking while the other one ages a bit. Also I will be buying a good juicer.

 

[Airgead]

: For an unknown reason, this is much more carbonated and gives a beautiful fluffy white head reminiscent of Duvel.

As you said, the kits use malt. The proteins in malt are what helps a head form and persist.

Cheers
Dave

 

[manticle]

Well seemingly overnight, the non-kit has fluffed up too. Despite such little time, it's tasting good. Must force myself to hang onto a few for proper ageing.

 

[pdilley]

Give a graff a try next time manticle. That has malt and even some hopping to add to the apple juice. Its rather yum and a natural progression as an intermediate style cider up from simple cider.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[manticle]

A which?

My main aim is to get to all apple - I just need the equpiment to juice the apples properly but I'm curious to know what you mean.

I intend to use a lager yeast for the next one and once I feel I have nailed (within reason) yeast driven cidermaking I aim to try a Normandy style with no extra yeast.

 

[pdilley]

Graff is a slightly hopped malty cider, a step up from simple cider.

19L batch is as follows:

Pack of US-05 Yeast
225 grams of Crystal 60L
30 grams of Torrified wheat (pregelatinised brewing adjunct) for head retention
15 Litres of Apple Juice
3.8 Litres of Water
450 grams of Amber Dry Malt Extract
450 grams of Light Dry Malt extract
14 grams of your favourite 6% AA Hops. Adjust accordingly. Always err on less not more unless you wish to leave it more than a month to mellow the bitterness

Brewing Steps
Steep the Crystal and Torrified Wheat for 30 minutes in 2.8 litres of 66C water
Sparge in 1 litre of 76C water then toss out the grains
Add Dry Malt Extract and bring to boil
Add Hops and boil 30 minutes

Ferment with US-05 at 18C to 20C

Drinkable right away if kegging but better if you let it age 2 weeks before drinking.
That gives the bottlers a chance to carb up and be the right age at bottle opening time.
Best tasting at 3 week mark.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[manticle]

Interesting.

Keen to give winemaking and meadmaking a go at some point too but they're all a bit further down the track. I'll keep graff on the list.

 

[Fourstar]

30 grams of Torrified wheat (pregelatinised brewing adjunct) for head retention

AFAIK, torrified wheat requires conversion from base malt like flaked rice/barley/corn/raw wheat. All you are doing is adding starch to your Graff. In future, I'd probably go for some Carapils to add some dextrins to your Graff if all you are interested in doing is steeping.

Just an idea. I wonder if anyone has gone to the trouble of an AG Graff? Pete, what kind of SG do you usually anticipate to get out of the malt bill?

Cheers!

 

[Fourstar]

Well im just knocking back my 1st attempt at a simple cider and all i can say is; "im never buying swill commerical cider again"!

20L of Aldi apple juice (airated to the clappers)
1 packet of Safale US05
1 tsp of calcium chloride boiled in 500ml of water (thaught it helps for yeast health in beer so i'll give it all the help i can)

OG 1.042
FG 1.004
4.9% ABV

Fermented out in just over a week @ 20deg~.

Pushed it through my filter today for diamond bright cider! Enjoy the cider porn!

Sweet/tart and acdic, clean apple aroma, no fermentation precursors/faults (that i can think of). Finishes dry with a sweet apple flavour in the finish. Very nice indeed.

Cheers! :icon_cheers:

 

[under]

Ive done Franko's cider. Not bad. My misses drunk the whole bloody lot.

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...st&p=398723

 

[Phoney]

Im a big fan of Franko's recipe....and so is the missus!


I put one a slight variation last sunday:

14.4L Apple (6 x 2.4L Berri)
9.6 Apple & Pear (4 x 2.4L Berri)
500g LDME
2 Vanilla beans
4 sticks of cinnamon
4 pink lady apples, quatered & thrown in

White wine yeast...

be interested to see how it turns out

 

[Scotty]

Fourstar, that picture is just cider porn lol.

Im still waiting for my simple cider (18L apple juice) to clear a bit more in secondary. I used a champagne yeast which i think might have been a mistake as it tastes like it fermented everything it possibly could and im left with a cider that tastes a little sour. I will filter it and if it is still sour im thinking maybe 200g of lactose before kegging.... Any thoughts anyone????

 

[petesbrew]

Put my first cider down just then.

4x 3L Apple Juice
4x 2.4l Berri Apple/Pear Juice
Champagne yeast (what is it...ec-1113?) Can't remember exactly. the pack's in the bin.
og=1042