Simplest Cider

[brettprevans]

thx Smurts. good info.

i must have misread the OG of apple juice somewhere. in that case i might just use straight juice no water,. Im not a big cider person and since its for the lady folk i thought id have it a little sweeter and a bit of fruit.

 

[pdilley]

Not a prob Doc, Im one of those that can not get the AHB search to return anything in a way my mind thinks it works so I gave up on it. I get more AHB results going to google.com and searching in their than using the AHB search. I also get most of my brew information from the radio and video podcasts from seppo land. As such I have over 298 shows that I have not listened to and slowly getting to them one by one. Im just a bit out of touch to old posts before my time on AHB.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[discoloop]

Had a Coopers kit yeast floating about so pitched a sprinkling of it into a 3 litre Coles Smart Buy apple juice this arvo. I guess this would come under "Simple Cider"! I'm just wondering what sort of flavours I can expect from this experiment? I'm guessing it'll be a pretty unexciting dry cider? Just going to ferment out, bottle and carb up....

 

[brettprevans]

The only thing I havent come across in the 'simpliest' cider experiments is whether people are racking off the yeast cake after a few weeks or leaving the cider on the cake for as many weeks as it takes to clear???

 

[Supra-Jim]

CM2,

When i did my 'simplest cider' a few months ago. I let it ferment out (approx 2 weeks) then jsut crash chilled the fermenter and straight into a keg. The resulting cider was very clear.

Note I used the Red Star yeast on this batch and wasn't very happy with it. Despite providing nutrients etc, still got a fair bit of sulphur coming off. Next time will be trying with the Wyeast option.

Cheers SJ

 

[brettprevans]

hmmm maybe i just imagined the 'taking ages to clear' thing. maybe im getting mead and cider confused. bugger i probably am! *CM2 slaps forehead*

in that case time to break out the hydrometer and take and SG of my pomaganite cider. if all good, crash chill (to kill of yeast) and backsweeten with pomnagranite syrup and a vanilla bean.

edit: bugger re redstar yeast, i ordered some from Ross thursday. oh well maybe ill mix it with another yeast and see how it goes.

 

[Supra-Jim]

CM2,

Yeah I think you are thinking of mead.

When i was discussing the sulphur smells with John @ G&G, he was pretty critical of the Red Star yeasts. I know its just an opinion and everyone has one, but i won't be using it again.

Cheers SJ

 

[pdilley]

The Red Star Montrachet is used for the German flavour option, the original Apfelwein (aka Ebbelwoi, ppler, Stffsche, Apfelmost, Viez, and Saurer Most) so its not a sweet cider for sure. The original brewer runs three 19L batches concurrently to keep the keg full.

Montrachet also is the king of the elephant farts But the smell is supposed to last only a few days before dissipating during fermentation and Apfelwein brewers expect to get sulphur and don't think anything of it when they do.

I did mine as noted in the early posts with the S-04 yeast option as I'm not an Apfelwein aficionado yet. Its aging on the yeast cake in a very cold part of the house. I've pretty much got it in set it and forget it mode until one day when I notice its very clear (read fine print through the glass).

With Apfelwein (Saurer most) you should get a tart, sour taste to be true to style. You are supposed to drink 3 glasses of it before passing judgement when starting out for the first time with Apfelwein as by the third the apple flavours come through as your palette begins to adjusts to the style.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[pdilley]

The Red Star Montrachet Apfelwein with the added 900 grams of Dextrose took 1st Place at the 2007 Alamo City Cerveza Fest BJCP sanctioned competition for the Cider and Apple Wine Category and 2nd Place for Best of Show for Meads & Ciders so its true to style but maybe tart until you fatigue the palette a bit.

I'll dig up the time until keg for you if I can get it.

Yeast: Red Star Montrachet
Yeast Starter: None
Additional Yeast or Yeast Starter: None
Batch Size (Gallons): 5 [19 Litres]
Original Gravity: 1.066
Final Gravity: 0.998
Boiling Time (Minutes): None
Color: Champagne
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): At least 6 weeks at 74 degrees [23.3 degrees C]


GENERAL QUESTIONS

How does it taste?
It ferments quite dry. Some people have tried different yeasts in order to achieve a sweeter taste. It may take you a few glasses to get a feel for the flavor. It is very reminiscent of a sort of apfelwein produced locally in Germany. There really is no comparable product in the United States. It's drier and less sweet than commercial hard ciders.

What is the difference between Apfelwein and hard cider?
Most ciders are a bit sweeter. Ciders and Apfelwein are about 6% abv, but I like the little boost I give it with 2 pounds of Dextrose. It adds no body or flavor and still tastes like Possmann's Apfelwein, only it will kick your butt much quicker.

Is this like Apfelmost / Apfel Korn?
No. Apfel Korn is a german liqeur made from wheat spirits. Apfelmost is spontaneously fermented with fresh-pressed apples or apple juice. It is probably similar, but the results may vary as a result of the spontaneous fermentation. Either way, Apfelmost is most certainly has a lower alcohol content since the initial gravity is not increased by the use of concentrate or corn sugar.

Whats the difference between apple juice and cider?
Cider is made by pressing apples. Juice is then filtered to remove all of the stuff that makes it cloudy.

Can I use apple cider instead?
Sure! You can use whatever you want. However, there is not enough information in this thread to give you any better details as to how it will turn out. I recommend starting a new thread or ask more experienced cider-makers.

What kind of Apple Juice should I use?
Ideally, you want to use 100% natural apple juice with no preservatives. The only acceptable preservative is ascorbic acid, which is a source of vitamin C and does not affect fermentation. Pasteurized juice is preferred, since it will have less bacteria.

How much will this recipe cost me?
5 gallons of Apfelwein can be made for between 20 and 25 dollars.

What else can you do with this recipe?
This makes a great Grog in the winter time. Take a quart in a sauce pan, add some rum, turbinado sugar, and float a cinnamon stick in it and simmer for a while. Serve hot in mugs. It'll warm you right up.

 

[brettprevans]

Its aging on the yeast cake in a very cold part of the house. I've pretty much got it in set it and forget it mode until one day when I notice its very clear (read fine print through the glass).
Cheers,
Brewer Pete

so Pete, your advocating aging on the cake till clear? so long as its in a cool place? no risk of yeast autolysis? (sp)

I recon my cider is done fermenting but dont think its crystal yet (only been 2 weeks). wondering whetehr I should leave it for a while longer or not before I kill the yeast by chilling it.

 

[pdilley]

so Pete, your advocating aging on the cake till clear? so long as its in a cool place? no risk of yeast autolysis? (sp)

I recon my cider is done fermenting but dont think its crystal yet (only been 2 weeks). wondering whetehr I should leave it for a while longer or not before I kill the yeast by chilling it.

I have no anxiety about leaving it bulk aging for up to a couple months. If I don't get clearing and it gets close to 3 months I'll seriously consider a single racking and then wonder if its worth it since I'll be losing quite a bit of that protective CO2 blanket on top of the cider.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[pdilley]

I forgot about Simplest Cider in all the excitement finishing the fermentation on the 60 litre fermenter of Mead and doing the 4 weeks on the yeast cake experiment with the 30 litre fermenter of Ale. Thats the way it should be

Simplest Cider has cleared. It has flocculated the bulk of the yeast off and is now at its first clearing stage. Its not enough to read fine print of a newspaper through the glass but its good timing as I can now rack Simplest Cider off into smaller fermentation vessels for long term aging and since the secondaries are all 5L demi's I can always sample from one along the way while leaving the others alone.

Simplest Cider will get even clearer as it ages and will fine-print reading material in no time.

This is what Simplest Cider will look like at this point of the fermentation when it goes from cloudy to its first clearing:



Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[pdilley]

Simple Cider is racked into 5L demis and now keeping JAOs company in the aging closet. Caps are resting on the jars but not sealed. I will see how it goes for a few days before deciding to affix any fermentation locks. Bottom is two boxes full of kit cider.



Brewers prerogative dictates the extra goes to the fridge expressly for purposes of sampling


Already Simple Cider has all the kit ciders beat. Drinkable straight from the fermenter but will get better with age. Compared to kit ciders, burst of apple aroma and more apple flavour, a tartness not present in kit ciders and the fruitiness impression is better overall.

Finish is dry but no where near as dry as with kit ciders. I'm considering even more clearing and aging then backsweeten with non-fermentable and bottle and use up some champers yeast for priming I have hanging around.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[Verbyla]

Roughly what would the SG level be of a cider that used 20L of ALDI apple juice with roughly 1kg of sugar be?

Any guesses?

Of the few ciders i've done i've been really lazy in the past and haven't used the hydrometer or haven't recorded the readings i've gotten when i have used it and i was just trying to get a feel of what SG the juice itself would have and the rough effect 1kg of sugar has.

 

[pdilley]

sucrose should contribute 386.5 points/kg/L

Have a go trying to nut out what that reduces down to for 20 litres and add it to the ALDI juice SG on the previous page. If its not obvious or you are having difficulty I'll help.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[Verbyla]

Nah u just gave me exactly what i was after.

Thanks for the help mate

 

[pdilley]

I've been taking small glassfuls every 4 days from my sample demijohn of simple cider and I'm impressed at how much it has improved in flavour in this little amount of time. This is going to be one easy drinking nice cider!

Gives me something to drink while waiting on the long aging recipes with higher ABV.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[discoloop]

A few weeks ago I tossed about a quarter of a pack of leftover Coopers kit yeast into a 3L bottle of Coles Smart Buy apple juice. Interesting results. I'm carbing up and bottle conditioning now, but the result seemed very drinkable in its flat state straight from the fermenter. The predominant flavour, go figure, tasted like Coles Smart Buy Apple Juice. Just a little drier. Entirely drinkable, but for me its really highlighted that there's a lot of room for interesting experimentation with ciders.

As I don't have capacity to juice fresh apples, my next step will be to find some interesting yeasts to experiment with. My gut feel is that with the right yeast you should be able to produce a decent drop with virtually any apple juice.... Red star could be a good candidate.... or maybe a peppery beligian?

 

[pdilley]

A few weeks ago I tossed about a quarter of a pack of leftover Coopers kit yeast into a 3L bottle of Coles Smart Buy apple juice. Interesting results. I'm carbing up and bottle conditioning now, but the result seemed very drinkable in its flat state straight from the fermenter. The predominant flavour, go figure, tasted like Coles Smart Buy Apple Juice. Just a little drier. Entirely drinkable, but for me its really highlighted that there's a lot of room for interesting experimentation with ciders.

As I don't have capacity to juice fresh apples, my next step will be to find some interesting yeasts to experiment with. My gut feel is that with the right yeast you should be able to produce a decent drop with virtually any apple juice.... Red star could be a good candidate.... or maybe a peppery beligian?

I've separated a post response on various yeasts into The Great Cider Yeast Experiment.

Have a read of that and have at it!


Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[pdilley]

Ok I have a hard time getting a good focus with the automatic camera. But I have not been bothered enough to bring my Canon Digital out of the cupboard and do a manual focus with a real SLR camera. So bear with me.

A shot of simplest cider, cleared in the fermenter. Card stock behind it with print. Camera kept focusing on the glass in the front of the fermenter grrr.
I had to convert if from JPEG-2000 (.jp2) to old JPEG as the board does not support the new JPEG format yet so it got double blurred! in the file conversion. grrr times 2.

With no flash, my hand holding induced blur as well as exposure time is long. Will have to get a proper shot next time.
You'll have to take my word its a lot clearer than the photo shows.

Racking day photo for comparison.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete