Second Brew = Straight To Extract

[glaab]

I wouldn't boil the can of goo, with the 300g sugars in a 3l boil you'll get 38 IBU with that hop schedule according to BS. As it boils off just don't top it up to more than 3l or she'll be more than 38IBUs, I've fallen for that one before. 38 is the perfect bitterness for my palate with an APA, it will seem too bitter out of the fermentator but be great after a few weeks

 

[Hatchy]

Did you go with the us05? Neill's recipe uses Nottingham. I only did a 30 min boil, if I'm using 3kg of extract & only 500g of it is going in the boil is the extra 1/2 hour prior to the 1st hop addition going to make much of a difference?

 

[Pete2501]

I'm happy to be wrong - that's my current understanding and more what I think Thirsty Boy was referring to in that post you reference.

Yeah he doesn't go into detail. Just to say you still need to boil for 60 mins as other things are happening. Link

 

[Mickthe]

This is an interesting topic as i had just fallen into the trap of doing Extract brews very early on, and asked for help.

Without a clue on the boil gravity concept, and without taking note of my total boil volume, i was putting too much malt in too early and also using too much liquid in the boil, and ended up with undesirable bitterness.

I would have thought there would always need to be some amount of hops on a 60 min boil to get any discernable IBU's into your final product, i had someone have a look at Beersmith for my last problem brew and the above problems were identified.

A 10 litre pot and 5-6 litre boils are all most people seem to need for decent results. (I also did a half batch as a cheaper way to practice!)

Following others recipes to a T is what i will do for a little while till i pick a few things up, i generally learn something each time i do a brew, i am onto Brew 11 now.....

Good luck

Mick.

 

[phonos]

There was an interesting experiment run by Basic Brewing and BYO comparing various ways of boiling extract, looking particularly at hop utilisation and colour. You can find the podcast here:

Basic Brewing Experiment 3

Essentially it appears as if it doesn't really make much difference whether you put the extract in late or not with respect to hop utilisation.

 

[stm]

For a pretty good explanation of how you get bitterness out of hops, and how a beer's IBU depends on boil length, see here:

http://www.realbeer.com/hops/research.html#table

For extract brews, there is no need to boil all the extract for 60 mins or more. You just need to make up about 5L of wort to about 1.030 or 1.040 SG, bring it to the boil, immediately chuck in your bittering hops, and then boil for a while to get to your target IBUs. This is usually 60 min because you spend less money on hops (the utilisation is better), but can just as easily be 30min with a bit more hops. Look at the table in the link above.

If you are worried about the sterility of the rest of your extract, chuck it in with a few mins left in the boil, otherwise chuck it straight into the fermenter.

You also need to take into account any bitterness added by your flavour hops (which might be chucked in 15 or 20 min prior to flame out).

Extract brewing is really easy!

 

[Adam Howard]

I'll follow Ian's spreadsheet's recommendation of malt weight required for an SG of 1040.

Begin by bringing that amount of malt to a rolling boil (approx 5 mins) and then begin my hop additions. Last Amarillo drop is 10 mins so I'll throw the rest of the tin in 5 minutes after than and then dissolve the dex and maltodex at flame out. Into fermenter, water top up to 11.5 litres and then pitch yeast.

I am so f**king excited. Bottled my first brew yesterday which I think will be a bog standard lager so it'll be nice to begin to create good beers.

The way I'm going my next brew will be partial mash and 4th will be AG!

Going to have a crack at a Belgian Blonde ale next in a similar vein to Leffe Blonde but with a twist.

Ferment volume: 11.5L

Fermentables:

Light DME 1.6kg
Carapils 400g
Carahell 100g
Light Crystal 100g
Dextrose 50g

Hops:

Czech Saaz 20g @30mins
Mt. Hood 15g @20mins

I think I'll use Wyeast 1214. I take it that strain would be appropriate.

Spreadsheet shows:

OG 1063
FG 1016
IBU 23.1
EBC 13.1

Anybody see any problems with that concoction? The ingenious graph in the spreadsheet is telling me I'm on the right track. Got the idea for Carapils due to Mountain Goat using pilsner grain for their Rapunzel.

Cheers. :icon_cheers:

 

[manticle]

Carapils and pilsner grains are different. Not to say you shouldn't use it - it mainly brings head formation and foam stability as far as I understand. Not a caramalt I've used so I'll let someone else comment on the amounts but 600g might be too much caramalts. I'd also venture that 50g of dex won't do much. If you want the dryness that sugar brings to a Belgian style then I'd consider upping that.

 

[Adam Howard]

Carapils and pilsner grains are different. Not to say you shouldn't use it - it mainly brings head formation and foam stability as far as I understand. Not a caramalt I've used so I'll let someone else comment on the amounts but 600g might be too much caramalts. I'd also venture that 50g of dex won't do much. If you want the dryness that sugar brings to a Belgian style then I'd consider upping that.

Point taken. I'm going off pure diligence with my study of brewing ingredients at the moment so I was waiting to be brought back to earth with some basic brewing facts.

I will rethink the grains and come back with something similar shortly.

50g of Dex was purely to bump the %Alc up without punching the FG above the style. If I back off my LDME I'll make up the difference with Dex. If I can replicate the mouthfeel and sweetness level of the Leffe's I'll be happy. Brune is maltier, Blonde is drier, thus I go drier!

EDIT: Using Ian's spreadsheet I am somewhat limited in my specialty grain choices so any help with my grain bill would be much appreciated. Perhaps 500g of a pilsner grain and 100g of a caramalt grain?

 

[manticle]

Pilsner grain will need to be mashed. If you can hold it between 60 and 70 degrees for 30-60 minutes (good practice for your spec grains anyway) then 500g shouldn't be an issue.

Cara-pils is used by a lot of brewers so don't dismiss it. Sugar is also used in most Belgian styles as they tend to be rich and malty - sugar balances that bit of the palate so you are on the right track including it.

I think the drunk arab has a recipe for a leffe blond. It's all grain but it's had a lot of great feedback and could be converted to extract. I'll see if I can hunt it up.

 

[manticle]

And here's the link to TDA's recipe: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...?showtopic=3539.

Use pale malt extract in place of the pilsner (to the same gravity, not the same weight) and the same proportion of specialty grains outlined there. I'm not sure what to suggest to replace the munich - maybe caramunich (not used it). Read up on the qualities of both and see if they match. My experience of munich malt is that it's kind of bready so a cara that gives similar qualities is what you want. Maybe not 450g though.

 

[Adam Howard]

And here's the link to TDA's recipe: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...?showtopic=3539.

Use pale malt extract in place of the pilsner (to the same gravity, not the same weight) and the same proportion of specialty grains outlined there. I'm not sure what to suggest to replace the munich - maybe caramunich (not used it). Read up on the qualities of both and see if they match. My experience of munich malt is that it's kind of bready so a cara that gives similar qualities is what you want. Maybe not 450g though.

Interesting. I'm not trying to go too close to Leffe Blonde, hence some different hops in my recipe. Advice on my current specialty grain bill is more what I'm after.

I have adjusted to have:

1.6kg LDME
100g CaraMunich 1
200g Dextrose
100g Maltodextrin

with the same hops and yeast. Would it be better to use the 1762 yeast strain in TDA's recipe?

The above recipe ends up with:

OG 1064
FG 1017
IBU 23.1
EBC 12.9
%Alc 6.4

 

[Dazza_devil]

I would dump the maltdextrin unless you have some good logic behind adding it. I personally haven't used it since using speciality grains.

Based on what I can find in Jamil and Palmers Brewing Classic Styles.

14% Cane Sugar
9 % Wheat LME
72%Pilsner LME

around 5% Speciality Grains - I would use Carabohemian or Special B, probably around 100g for your batch size.

Hallertau @ 60mins for 24.5 IBU

Wyeast 1214

Edited to say that it really makes sense to do a 60min boil and allow for evaporation, unless you want to use a shit load of hops and end up with too much hop flavour.
I haven't brewed a Belgian Strong Ale before but I'm inspired to do so now.

 

[Adam Howard]

Thanks for that Boagsy.

Yes I'm getting the drift now that it's better to lay down a good foundation of bitterness early in the piece and then use less hops later for aroma and flavour. I'll stick with my guns on my Centenarillo but swap things around with this next one.

Thinking about it more. The ArtisanAle FWK's almost use Hallertau exclusively as a bittering hop, most likely introduced early in the piece to allow for some other hop additions purely for aroma and flavour.

 

[manticle]

Interesting. I'm not trying to go too close to Leffe Blonde, hence some different hops in my recipe. Advice on my current specialty grain bill is more what I'm after.

I have adjusted to have:

1.6kg LDME
100g CaraMunich 1
200g Dextrose
100g Maltodextrin

with the same hops and yeast. Would it be better to use the 1762 yeast strain in TDA's recipe?

The above recipe ends up with:

OG 1064
FG 1017
IBU 23.1
EBC 12.9
%Alc 6.4

I get OG 1054, abv 4.7 %, around 18 EBC and 21 IBU


My suggestion regarding TDA's recipe is not just to try and make a clone of leffe - it's to use a tried and true recipe that you can use as a base and tweak where you see fit (eg hops type). It's just a starting point.

If you were going to use carapils before I'd keep it in - it's a grain equivalent of maltodextrin. Maltodex is good until you start using grain - then it becomes superfluous.

 

[Adam Howard]

I get OG 1054, abv 4.7 %, around 18 EBC and 21 IBU

I've suspected a few divergences within Ian's spreadsheet from other programs.

I'm on a MacBook, can I use programs like Beersmith etc.?

 

[kelbygreen]

I have got qbrew on my linux not sure if it works with mac but could look it up. Have not used it so cant say if its good or not. I also have ian's spreadsheet and beersmith on win7 and my last recipe I put in both and they came out different to start but I said I was doing 6lt boil and beer smith thought I was adding all my fermentables to the boil to the IBU was around 60 when I was aiming for 20-30 lol but figured out you add say 600g of LDME then set to 60min boil (or what ever you are doing with the hops) then add all the rest with no boil made a big difference

edit: But even then it was a little different I guess some malts and hops have different factors so its always going to be a guide not a 100% correct add up

 

[kelbygreen]

oh so you dont get confused yes qbrew is on mac and here is the site QBREW

 

[Adam Howard]

Put down the Centenarillo today.

Changed the ferment volume to 12L.

Bumped up the Centennial addition to 12g.

Didn't use any maltodextrin, instead I used 300g of LDME in a 3L boil for an SG of 1040.

Stoked. It's amazing the difference doing a hop boil compared to a kit. The smell is insane!

 

[cdbrown]

Big w 20l pot has served me well (and a hell of a lot cheaper than the robinox pot which does the same thing). Two of those pots with an esky for a tun and you're ready for all grain.