Scared Of Iodophor

[MHB]

Screwtop
I suspect he was referring to the concentration of Iodine; rather than to the stock solution.

The drum I have says:-
120 g/L Phosphoric Acid
20 g/L Available Iodine

Further it recommends a dilution of 15 mL / 10 L of cold water or 1.5 mL/L.

That gives a concentration of 0.03 g/L or 30 PPM (available Iodine)
This is double the concentration that the link recommends; but those dilutions are for dairy and milk machines.

The instructions also say to rinse off with cold water - personally I would be a little reluctant to regard any Hyalogen as no rinse.

MHB

 

[Screwtop]

Screwtop
I suspect he was referring to the concentration of Iodine; rather than to the stock solution.

The drum I have says:-
120 g/L Phosphoric Acid
20 g/L Available Iodine

Further it recommends a dilution of 15 mL / 10 L of cold water or 1.5 mL/L.

That gives a concentration of 0.03 g/L or 30 PPM (available Iodine)
This is double the concentration that the link recommends; but those dilutions are for dairy and milk machines.

The instructions also say to rinse off with cold water - personally I would be a little reluctant to regard any Hyalogen as no rinse.

MHB

Thanks, was that the Dalaval brand Mark? Bloody confusing stuff, in the podcast Merle Landman of National Chemicals states that staining should not be a problem if using Iodophor at the 12.5ppm (Sanitisation) rate and that the product is grossly overused in the homebrew community. Will try at 1ml/1.25L and see if the staining is reduced.

that's 1.095ml too much for 5L.

Geez Bindi you keep wasting it like that and you'll have none left. :lol:

 

[crozdog]

MHB,

re "Hyalogen".... When I google it I get the following:
hyalogen (h-l-jn) n. Any of various insoluble substances related to mucoids occurring in structures such as cartilage, vitreous humor, and hydatid cysts and yielding sugars on hydrolysis.

How does this relate to the use of Iodophor as a sanitiser? Is Iodophor a hyalogen? (do we care? )

Thanks in advance

 

[Back Yard Brewer]

Hi All,

I generally use a 'napisan' type steriliser, however from what i read on here i just switched to a no-rinse option - iodophor.

Problem, i got a 250ml jar for 5 (about AU$12). It came in a plastic bag with a 'brupaks' label on it saying the recommended dose was 10ml/L.
The HBS i got it from stated the dosage should be 5ml/L
The article on sterilising on this website says the dosage should be 1ml/L.

When i got it out it was the colour of iodine and smelt pungent; not wanting to overdose i used the 1ml/L - filled up the kitchen sink and sanitised my bottles by siphoning some of it in each bottle, slushing it around and letting it stand for 10mins. The colour of the mix was quite pale, like watered down apple juice id say.

Now advice on this site and the article state iodophor is a 'no rinse' sanitiser. HOwever the brupaks label read 'rinse thoroughly before use'. So because it smelt like **** i rinsed all the bottles out.

Questions - WTF is with all the conflicting info? Whats right and what's wrong? at 10ml/L if i fill a fermenter with 5L (about 1/4 full) according to the distributor i will have to use 50ml per go, meaning i only get 5 sanitations out of it. Now for my 5 thats a joke! AND i have to rinse it???

Confused and hate iodophor. HELP?

Go here http://www.detergentmarketing.com/data/pic.../iodophorns.pdf and read the MSDS. I use a similar product at work and at the rate of 1-1.5mm per ltr max. It is wicked gear but a great product for "sanatisng" not to be confused for serilising. I only apply it just prior to transfering wine to a tank or before using my brewing gear. From what I am lead to believe, if it mixed up to early it will break down in the water and basically be useless.

BYB

BYB

 

[Belgrave Brewer]

I'm a big fan Iodophur. Dilute, soak and 'no rinse'. No hassle, no flavour, no odor, no worries!!!!

Never had an infected brew since using it.

Besides, nothing wrong with a little iodine in your system. :icon_drunk:

The only downside I can see is long term contact does stain plastic.

BB

 

[Screwtop]

Go here http://www.detergentmarketing.com/data/pic.../iodophorns.pdf and read the MSDS. I use a similar product at work and at the rate of 1-1.5mm per ltr max. It is wicked gear but a great product for "sanatisng" not to be confused for serilising. I only apply it just prior to transfering wine to a tank or before using my brewing gear. From what I am lead to believe, if it mixed up to early it will break down in the water and basically be useless.

BYB

BYB

Andrew a Link here re testing of Iodophor solution over time. Looks effective like shelf life is about 3 weeks max once diluted.

Screwy

 

[NRB]

I think he meant "Halogen".

re "Hyalogen".... When I google it I get the following:
hyalogen (h-l-jn) n. Any of various insoluble substances related to mucoids occurring in structures such as cartilage, vitreous humor, and hydatid cysts and yielding sugars on hydrolysis.

How does this relate to the use of Iodophor as a sanitiser? Is Iodophor a hyalogen? (do we care? )

Thanks in advance

 

[Sammus]

Screwtop
I suspect he was referring to the concentration of Iodine; rather than to the stock solution.

The drum I have says:-
120 g/L Phosphoric Acid
20 g/L Available Iodine

Further it recommends a dilution of 15 mL / 10 L of cold water or 1.5 mL/L.

That gives a concentration of 0.03 g/L or 30 PPM (available Iodine)
This is double the concentration that the link recommends; but those dilutions are for dairy and milk machines.

The instructions also say to rinse off with cold water - personally I would be a little reluctant to regard any Hyalogen as no rinse.

MHB

No need to rinse - Iodine sublimes at room temperature!

 

[Darren]

I think he meant "Halogen".

hahahaha,

Yep it is halogen

cheers

Darren

 

[MHB]

Halogen
Any of the five electronegative elements, namely fluorine, chlorine, iodine, bromine, or astatine

MHB - with chronic fat finger syndrome

Edit after reading the above and getting over the embarrassment

Dont you hate it when you are rushing and the spellchecker changes things when you're not looking, then again I never said I could spell.

Screwtop
No, I went for one that was nearly twice as strong and it only costs a little more (about $15 for 25L more)
20g/l as apposed to 12g/l (if you want the supplier or MSDS you can PM me).

Sammus
Yes it does, its the standard way to purify the stuff, but it generally takes months for about 100g sitting in a closed bottle to recondense around the neck - I think that waiting until you are sure it has all sublimed away would be an interesting exercise in patience.
The other point to consider is - is it molecular I2 that is left as a residue? I suspect that the Nitric Acid and the Iodine are forming an association and that you can't assume that the solution will behave like the constituent parts taken in isolation.

My concern it for the formation of Iodophenol's, anything reactive enough to be an effective sanitiser is going to be reactive enough to form other bonds - and I have yet to meet a pleasant HALOGEN compound.

The one between Chlorine and Iodine is Bromine from Bromos Greek for the stench given off by male goats

I just think a quick rinse off with boiled water is all that is called for on the better safe than sorry principle.

M

 

[wimbymoonshine]

Halogen
Any of the five electronegative elements, namely fluorine, chlorine, iodine, bromine, or astatine

MHB - with chronic fat finger syndrome

Edit after reading the above and getting over the embarrassment

Dont you hate it when you are rushing and the spellchecker changes things when you're not looking, then again I never said I could spell.

Screwtop
No, I went for one that was nearly twice as strong and it only costs a little more (about $15 for 25L more)
20g/l as apposed to 12g/l (if you want the supplier or MSDS you can PM me).

Sammus
Yes it does, its the standard way to purify the stuff, but it generally takes months for about 100g sitting in a closed bottle to recondense around the neck - I think that waiting until you are sure it has all sublimed away would be an interesting exercise in patience.
The other point to consider is - is it molecular I2 that is left as a residue? I suspect that the Nitric Acid and the Iodine are forming an association and that you can't assume that the solution will behave like the constituent parts taken in isolation.

My concern it for the formation of Iodophenol's, anything reactive enough to be an effective sanitiser is going to be reactive enough to form other bonds - and I have yet to meet a pleasant HALOGEN compound.

The one between Chlorine and Iodine is Bromine from Bromos Greek for the stench given off by male goats

I just think a quick rinse off with boiled water is all that is called for on the better safe than sorry principle.

M

 

[wimbymoonshine]

Halogen
Any of the five electronegative elements, namely fluorine, chlorine, iodine, bromine, or astatine

MHB - with chronic fat finger syndrome

Edit after reading the above and getting over the embarrassment

Dont you hate it when you are rushing and the spellchecker changes things when you're not looking, then again I never said I could spell.

Screwtop
No, I went for one that was nearly twice as strong and it only costs a little more (about $15 for 25L more)
20g/l as apposed to 12g/l (if you want the supplier or MSDS you can PM me).

Sammus
Yes it does, its the standard way to purify the stuff, but it generally takes months for about 100g sitting in a closed bottle to recondense around the neck - I think that waiting until you are sure it has all sublimed away would be an interesting exercise in patience.
The other point to consider is - is it molecular I2 that is left as a residue? I suspect that the Nitric Acid and the Iodine are forming an association and that you can't assume that the solution will behave like the constituent parts taken in isolation.

My concern it for the formation of Iodophenol's, anything reactive enough to be an effective sanitiser is going to be reactive enough to form other bonds - and I have yet to meet a pleasant HALOGEN compound.

The one between Chlorine and Iodine is Bromine from Bromos Greek for the stench given off by male goats

I just think a quick rinse off with boiled water is all that is called for on the better safe than sorry principle.

M

Very accurate and informative Prof MHB!!
But after all that, i still hate iodophor, it smells like ****, stains everything and..... i just dont like it!

I am also not convinced that filling a fermenter 1/5 full and sloshing it around does the job. With my 'napisan' type sanitiser i fill the fermenter to the brim and put eveything that needs sanitising insider. Full contact for a decent amount of time...... yes i know im not strictly obeying the science but sometimes it just doesnt satisfy me!

 

[Fatgodzilla]

...... yes i know im not strictly obeying the science but sometimes it just doesn't satisfy me!

Science has never satisfied me either.

 

[recharge]

With my 'napisan' type sanitiser i fill the fermenter to the brim and put eveything that needs sanitising insider. Full contact for a decent amount of time...... yes i know im not strictly obeying the science but sometimes it just doesnt satisfy me!

I do this AND use Iodophor at 1ml L none of my fermentors are yellow

Rich

 

[Stuster]

- and I have yet to meet a pleasant HALOGEN compound.

Not even table salt.

 

[Screwtop]

Science has never satisfied me either.

Me neither any result from the calculator or Excel, I check with paper and pencil

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I wonder if anyone using the Malt Shovel fermenters can comment on Iodophors staining them?

Sorry, just had to. :unsure:

 

[Screwtop]

Very accurate and informative Prof MHB!!
But after all that, i still hate iodophor, it smells like ****, stains everything and..... i just dont like it!

I am also not convinced that filling a fermenter 1/5 full and sloshing it around does the job. With my 'napisan' type sanitiser i fill the fermenter to the brim and put eveything that needs sanitising insider. Full contact for a decent amount of time...... yes i know im not strictly obeying the science but sometimes it just doesnt satisfy me!

Sorry but napisan (sodium percarbonate) is not a sanitiser. Tons of info on here re use of Sodium Percarbonate for cleaning. Also Phosphoric Acid, Iodine, Household Bleach (Sodium Hypochlorite), vinegar, Hydrogen Peroxide, and combinations for use as no rinse sanitiser.

Do a search, some of the results may satisfy you.

Every Brewer has an opinion Wimb, here's mine. If you experience an infection, use bleach to clean everything, pull everything apart and soak it in bleach solution. Once under control after use, dismantle and CLEAN with Napisan, air dry and store in a clean environment. Before use sanitise using a non rinse sanitiser for the required contact time. Cleaning is up there in importance with Sanitising. Oh, and trust in science, your using it to communicate with thousands of brewers to assist your brewing knowledge.

Cheers Screwy

 

[wimbymoonshine]

Sorry but napisan (sodium percarbonate) is not a sanitiser. Tons of info on here re use of Sodium Percarbonate for cleaning. Also Phosphoric Acid, Iodine, Household Bleach (Sodium Hypochlorite), vinegar, Hydrogen Peroxide, and combinations for use as no rinse sanitiser.

Do a search, some of the results may satisfy you.

Every Brewer has an opinion Wimb, here's mine. If you experience an infection, use bleach to clean everything, pull everything apart and soak it in bleach solution. Once under control after use, dismantle and CLEAN with Napisan, air dry and store in a clean environment. Before use sanitise using a non rinse sanitiser for the required contact time. Cleaning is up there in importance with Sanitising. Oh, and trust in science, your using it to communicate with thousands of brewers to assist your brewing knowledge.

Cheers Screwy

Great advise screwy... I think i may have a go at the peroxide based no rinse ones. I like the idea of peroxide breaking down to just H20+02...Any suggestions on a decent one available from LHBS?

I think i may have a stagnant infection as my last 2 brews (lager and ale) have turned out quite astringent and bitter. However, these two were the first time i steeped grain (crystal and carapils, respectively). I kept the temp in the required range definately for the lager so im thinking it may be an infection? Also, the larger had quite an alcoholic character even though primary was undertaken at approx 13deg. I used idodophor on these two brews however rinsed with tap water after as it smelt quite bad and i had conflicting info on the dosage.
When i used a 'napisan' style one and rinsed after i never had any 'infection' problems... Hence my breakdown in science. However, i am a firm believer in science and i think i was blaming the science and perhaps not the cause; my method of application may have been flawed!

Cheers!

 

[Sammus]

Sorry but napisan (sodium percarbonate) is not a sanitiser.

napisan kind of products says its antibacterial - and both coopers and brewcraft i think market sodium percarb as a sanitiser - id never use it like that though i dont like the residue,