Save $ And Time

[warrenlw63]

Why not just run hot tap water through a carbon filter? That way you get your hot water and all the metals and gunk are filtered out... :huh:

My vote goes for Julez's post... Real common sense that everybody just sidestepped I think.

Any reasons this would not work or are water filters big, bad and bitey too? B)

Warren -

 

[PostModern]

I did a small test yesterday to validate what I was saying. I filled a pint glass from the hot tap, filled another from the cold tap and left them on the bench until they were the same temp. The hot water one tasted rank. Not like it was infected, but there is a distinct metallic taste.

Filtering is common sense and it would bear some experimentation for anyone who reckons their filter will survive the heat.

I'd offer to test, but I don't have a bench filter, our tap water here is so damn sweet, I don't see the need. If someone wants to run some hot water thru a filter, measure the temp and give a before and after taste test, then we'd know. It might just be a matter of replacing the anode.

 

[Darren]

I'm with PoMo here, while this is anecdotal and hardly evidence as such I have noticed if I make a cup of coffee by boiling water from the cold tap it tastes fine, however if I boil the water from the hot tap the coffee tastes like sh!t.

That's why I don't use the hot water service during brewing.

Andrew

+1

 

[Millet Man]

I'm with PoMo here, while this is anecdotal and hardly evidence as such I have noticed if I make a cup of coffee by boiling water from the cold tap it tastes fine, however if I boil the water from the hot tap the coffee tastes like sh!t.

That's why I don't use the hot water service during brewing.

Andrew

+2

I always fill the kettle and pots for cooking food from the cold water tap because it tastes so much better. Same goes for brewing.

Cheers, Andrew.

 

[Ross]

I've always used the hot water tank & been very happy with the results - might do the hot & cold water test though & see if there's a difference in the taste... will definately change if it tastes bad...

cheers Ross

 

[Pumpy]

Why not just run hot tap water through a carbon filter? That way you get your hot water and all the metals and gunk are filtered out... :huh:

mmmmmmmmmmmJulez correct me if i am wrong but carbon filter wont get rid of heavy metals !!!!

dont you need a 'CZR /Carbon filter '

pumpy

 

[bugwan]

I've always used hot water in the kettle for making tea. In the 8+ properties I've lived in over the last 10 years, I can't tell the difference...they all taste like tea. When I quizzed my parents on what they did for tea water a few years ago (tea aficionados by the way), they said they've always put hot water in the kettle, as it's quicker to boil! No noticeable taste difference to them either. I think we're all agreed on this - if it tastes ok, you're good to go.

Of course, this is all anecdotal evidence and does not necessarily translate to brewers across the country (or perhaps even next door). Best of luck with your chosen method... Pre-heated water saves me time and money and doesn't contribute to taste in my brews.

As home brewers, we're all anecdotalists to some point. What works in one brewery, doesn't work in another. I need to learn to respect the opinions of other brewers as much as anyone. I guess my aversion is to those who take a legit topic and pick out minutiae, creating hysteria over detail that doesn't deserve airtime... I felt it was only done in a very minor form in this thread and hey, maybe that's just my super-sensitive commercial-television-anti-exploitation-radar telling me to treat such coverage with huge scepticism, but it was still annoying to see it here all the same.

 

[LethalCorpse]

No one's creating hysteria. No one is suggesting anyone's going to die.

 

[bugwan]

No one's creating hysteria. No one is suggesting anyone's going to die.

Hysteria yes, death no.

The O.P. observed that using off-peak gas (from his hot water system) as a source of water for his HLT, cut down on brew costs. A great idea... but it's hardly the time for mentioning extremophilic bacteria and heavy metal contamination, surely? Maybe they belong in a microbiological enthusiasts thread?

Sometimes it's the way people type their ideas out, but other times, it's just people being difficult. I hope it's the former in this case.

Some points made in these forums (no matter how valid) are quite often irrelevant to brewers. People posting detailed, yet irrelevant, examples of their knowledge (in their area of expertise) doesn't impress me... Is this breakdown of sacrificial anodes in the slightest way relevant to a decent brew? I see no evidence, because I've brewed many a magnificent beer on my system that uses water from a (god-knows-how-old) hot water system.

Do sacrificial anodes break down in the water over time? Sure they do. Does the plastic from an Esky wall contribute flavours to a final tasting? Possibly. Am I brewing too close to a street carrying heavy traffic and adding unnecessary lead to my brew?? There are FAR TOO MANY variables outside of this topic that contribute taste effects to worry about this particular example, IMO.

Let's not be silly here - how about we try to keep things in perspective, if your hot water system spits out rusty (brown) water or it tastes like shit, then don't brew with it. But if it smells/tastes fine, then use it and don't be too persuaded by the naysayers! I did.

 

[LethalCorpse]

I think you're right. Hysteria has indeed been created.

 

[warrenlw63]

mmmmmmmmmmmJulez correct me if i am wrong but carbon filter wont get rid of heavy metals !!!!

dont you need a 'CZR /Carbon filter '

pumpy

Looks like you're right Pumpy to remove metals you need a combination of carbon and KDF-55 filter medium. Cartridges are a little more pricey though.

KDF-55 removes algae and fungi, controls bacterial growth, removes Chlorine, Pesticides, Organic matter, Rust, Unpleasant taste and odour Hydrogen sulphide, Iron, Lead, Calcium, Aluminium, Mercury, Arsenic and other inorganic compounds.

Warren -

 

[kabooby]

I've always used the hot water tank & been very happy with the results - might do the hot & cold water test though & see if there's a difference in the taste... will definately change if it tastes bad...

cheers Ross

+1

I will have to do a comparison just to see

Kabooby

 

[LethalCorpse]

And probably filters at a rate of 1L/min/m^2 at mains pressure

 

[warrenlw63]

Yoicks! That would take me nearly an hour to fill my HLT !! (55 litres of strike water)

Glad I'm not using water from the HWS after all that.

Warren -

 

[LethalCorpse]

Well, I was guessing, and exaggerating my guess, but really good filtration is, by definition, bloody slow.

 

[bugwan]

I do still like the idea of an 'on-demand' gas fired system specifically for the brewery. That way you only use gas when you need it...although that kind of defeats the purpose of off-peak heating...

Apologies for the earlier rant too...it was late, I was tired and my APA had just run out.

 

[LethalCorpse]

All good - it's a bugger when you run out of beer. It's a nasty side effect of not brewing enough, as is irritability

As an aside, if your hot water system is electric, and your HLT is electric, you won't save any money at all by filling from the hot tap. If you've got a thermostat control and a timer on it, you'll not save time either. If you're currently using a gas-fired HLT and concerned about your expenditure on gas, you can cut your time and money without any of the much debated metallic concerns by converting to electric.

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I googled 'hot water carbon filter' and got a few (probably not authoritative) people suggesting that hot water through carbon filters might make the carbon pores expand and release any unwanted nasties they had previously trapped there.

I do not know one way or another, frankly. I'd thought about doing it and I believe there is a micro somewhere not too far away that uses a couple of instantaneous hot water services to heat their strike water, but *my* instantaneous HWS has always delivered different tasting water.

I think my immersion elements are as close to efficient as any hot water service is likely to be, so switching would not save me money, and as has been suggested before, I could automate their on/offness to have the water heating while I shower/breakfast/whatever.

 

[edoeven]

interesting thread I never really thought about filling my kettle from the HWS, but it would speed up brewdays thats for sure. I will do a taste test on our HWS, I think tis ok - but I should be able to get some definitive answers in a few days - I am currently doing my phd in analytical/electrochemistry so will take a few samples from our HWS (a reasonably old gas unit) and run a few AAS or ICP if needed and compare Mg/Al/Cu/Ni/Zn to what we have in the water straight from the tap.

wont be hugely relevant to anyone except me (I assume every HWS would be a slightly different case - depend on local water ph, plumbing etc) but it should be interesting anyways will post results if/when I get around to it!

 

[LethalCorpse]

The good news is your immersion elements are 100% efficient - every joule of energy produced goes into the water. Your HLT insulation may not be all that crash hot (which is what affects the overall efficiency), but with the temps and times involved here it's still got to be much more efficient than gas - either fired under the tank or in an instantaneous HWS heat exchanger. Where an instant HWS wins back efficiency points against an electric system is in the fact that it's not trying to keep a large volume at temperature for long periods of time, and hence losing heat to the atmosphere - it only heats when you're using the water.